Optical Network Configurations

[Quokka_61]

This is to ask whether any compatibility problems are to be expected with Microtik switches in combination with Finisar SFP+ transceivers.

 

My reason for this inquiry is that my current QNAP QSW-M408-4C switch stubbornly refuses to recognise either Finisar FTLX1475D3BCV (10G/1G Dual Rate 1310nm Single Mode SFP+) or Finisar FTLX1475D3BTL (10G 1310nm Single Mode SFP+) transceivers. The transceivers themselves were ordered from Mouser and are brand new. When restarting the QNAP switch all LEDs next to occupied ethernet ports flash as part of the booting routine. In contrast, this doesn’t happen when in a SFP+ port a transceiver is inserted and to which on the other end my Fitlet2 (with ‘SFP+ Gbit Ethernet optical FACET-Card’) is connected. The result is, the SFP+ ports of the switch remain inactive and no connection over fiber is established. On the other hand, with either the FTLX1475D3BCV or the FTLX1475D3BTL inserted, the LED next to the SFP+ port of the Fitlet2 does flash a couple of times during booting. This seems to indicate that the Fitlet2 recognises the transceivers (although stating ‘1210 Gigabit Fiber - no cable connected), from which I tentatively conclude that the transceivers themselves are not broken. The problem therefore seems to be at the end of the switch, and some web searching has shown that QNAP switches are notoriously particular in not a very useful way when it comes to transceivers, and that I am not the only one encountering problems.

 

With a fiber optic tester on its way, I am yet to test my fiber patch cables. In a addition, I have filed a ticket with the helpdesk of QNAP, but given what I have read online I do not exactly have high hopes that I may eventually be able to convince my switch to accept these Finisar transceivers. Should this unfortunately indeed be the case, my next step may be getting myself a Microtik switch (CRS305-1G-4S+IN or CSS610-8G-2S+IN) with both ethernet and SFP+ ports, and connect this by ethernet cable to the QNAP switch on one end, and by optical fiber to the Fitlet2 on the other end.  However, before adding another piece of gear, I am much interested to hear whether any of you has experience with Microtik switches in combination with either dual rate Finisar FTLX1475D3BCV or 10G Finisar FTLX1475D3BTL transceivers, and whether any compatibility problems are to be expected. Any experiences you may be able to share will be much welcomed!

[Quokka_61]

@Bertel Thank you very much for your reply. It is encouraging to read that you don't have any problems with the Finisar transceivers you mention in combination with your MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ switch. As I wrote in my previous post, I did file a ticket with QNAP. Should they not be able to sort this problem out, either in the form of a firmware update or otherwise, I am going for the MikroTik switch you use too. This would be a pity though, because it means another piece of gear in the chain, whereas my QNAP switch otherwise offers me everything I need.

 

@robi20064I just sent you a PM in reply to yours.

[Quokka_61]

@Mike Rubin Without precisely understanding what your network topology exactly looks like, one observation. I recently acquired a MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ switch, and it is my understanding that its 1G ethernet port is for management purposes only. Connecting this switch over ethernet directly with my router indeed makes it possible to access the switch and fiddle with its rather intimidating array of settings, either by configuring it in SwOS or RouterOS. However, when I hook up the ethernet port of the MikroTik to an ethernet port of any of my other switches, no connection is made and hence the former doesn't become part of the network. Others may have different experiences, but for me this particular MikroTik only works as a fiber switch, and I thought this is probably something you should be aware of.

[Quokka_61]

2 hours ago, dbastin said:

On my CRS 305 using RouterOS the RJ45 jack works as a regular ethernet connection.

 

In that case, my apologies for disseminating erroneous information.

 

@dbastin If I may ask, did the RJ45 port work for you right from the start, or did you need to change settings in RouterOS? Like I wrote, when I connected the ethernet port of my CRS305 to a ditto port of another switch, no connection was established. After reading in the manual that the RJ45 port of the MikroTik was meant for switch management, my conclusion was that no normal switch-to-switch traffic over this port was possible. Reading it is, is good news, and so I have some more troubleshooting to do this weekend to have this port work for me as well.

[Quokka_61]

@tdx  One word of warning when it comes to QNAP switches in relation to transceivers. While there's nothing wrong with them as switches, it is my experience (and a little Googling reveals of others), that QNAP switches are especially finicky when it comes to the brands and types of transceivers they work with. The FTLF1318P3BTL transceiver you're looking at isn't mentioned in QNAP's list of compatible transceivers for the QSW-308-1C  (https://www.qnap.com/en-us/compatibility/?model=407&category=26), and as I have come to find out, you better take these recommendations seriously.

 

A couple of years ago, I got myself the QNAP QSW-M408-4C, which features four SFP+ slots. Without paying attention to the list of recommend transceivers for this model, some time later I also bought two Finisar FTLX1475D3BTL 10G Single Mode SFP+ transceivers, and two Finisar FTLX1475D3BCV 10G/1G Dual Rate Single Mode SFP+ Whatever I tried, both types happened not to work with my QNAP switch. Only then did I hit at QNAP's list of recommend transceivers, and neither of these two Finisars were mentioned. In an attempt to find out whether anything could be done about it, I contacted QNAP customer support and asked them whether any firmware updates were in the works that would make my switch compatible with both or either of the transceivers I had. The answer was 'no', and when I replied that this lack of support was a bit awkward, given the fact that most of the transceivers on their recommended list were no longer in production, or were impossible to find, I again was referred to their list. That's why I gave up on the SFP+ slots of my QNAP switch, and, following several recommendations on this forum, instead I got myself a MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+IN switch, which appeared to work flawlessly with both Finisar transceivers mentioned above. So, should you not yet have the QSW-308-1C  switch in your possession, it is probably a good idea to look at alternatives that are guaranteed to work with the type of transceiver you have in mind.

 

[Quokka_61]

@tdx in case you keep getting stuck with your MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+IN switch, it may be worthwhile to check out the MikroTik forum (https://forum.mikrotik.com). This forum is populated with MikroTik gear specialists, who are likely able to advise about properly setting up your switch. Although it took me a while to get my CRS305-1G-4S+IN going, in the end I figured it out myself. I remember there was one little check box that made all the difference, but unfortunately I don't recall which option this was. Mine is set to bridge mode as it doesn't operate as a router itself. In case yours is connected to a router as well, it may be an idea to check this setting. 

[Quokka_61]

15 hours ago, Iving said:

For 10G - surely - all I need is a 10G PC AIC and a device between it and my eR. Any ideas at all? Where I could start?

What about a switch like the MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ in between your PC and your eR? Its operating system allows 'downgrading' the 10G SFP+ ports to 1G, and so you could connect the PC and switch by a couple of 10G transceivers, and subsequently the switch and the eR by a couple of 1G's. This is not what I have done myself, however, as I am using 10G/1G dual rate transceivers (Finisar FTLX1475D3BCV 10G/1G Dual Rate 1310nm Single Mode SFP+), an option you have reason not to employ. However, others on the forum may have hands-on experience with 'downgrading' 10G SFP+ ports, and hopefully they can offer you further guidance.

[Quokka_61]

@Iving One word of warning when it comes to QNAP-gear in combination with optical transceivers. When you decide to go for the QNA-T310G1S, make sure to utilise transceivers that this particular adapter is known to work with. As I myself and others on this forum and elsewhere have found out the hard way, QNAP stuff is very picky when it comes to transceivers. I have got a QNAP QSW-M408-MC switch which features four ethernet / 10G SFP+ 'combo ports'. As an ethernet switch, this is just a very reliable thing. However, the transceivers that QNAP recommends as compatible with this particular switch all happened to be out of production or, for whatever reason, very difficult to get, and the two different types of Finisar transceivers I had (among which the FTLX1475D3BCV 10G/1G Dual Rate I mentioned in my previous post) simply didn't work with this switch. When I contacted the support desk of QNAP and asked them whether any firmware update was in the works to enable this switch to operate with a wider range of transceivers, I was simply referred back to their support page with outdated recommendations. This is how I got myself the MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ switch which accepts both types of Finisar transceivers I had just fine. So, should you choose to follow the Thunderbolt route and get yourself a QNA-T310G1S adapter (which in itself may be a nice piece of gear), first make sure the transceivers you opt for are positively known to work with this adapter.

[Quokka_61]

'PC > fiber > copper > fiber > copper > device' seems a bit superfluous, especially since it's often advised to use as few as possible steps in an audio chain. Connecting your PC with 10G SFP+ AIC to a SFP+ port of a 10G / 1G switch by means of a couple of 10G SFP+ transceivers, and the aforementioned switch to your eR by means of a couple of 1G SFP transceivers seems to be the more elegant route. In case you don't need any of the switch's other 10G ports, you could also opt for the 1G SFP AIC you mentioned, and go for a switch featuring 1G SFP ports only...

[Quokka_61]

9 hours ago, audiobomber said:

Fewest steps makes sense in an analogue audio chain, but network audio benefits from extra steps, if implemented properly. If less were better, we wouldn't use a switch and just use the router as a switch. Anyone who knows about network audio will tell you to use a switch, and most of us use and recommend more than one.

 

@audiobomber thank you for pointing out an ambiguity in where I wrote that 'it's often advised to use as few as possible steps in an audio chain.'. In hindsight I should have used the words 'as few as necessary'. What's necessary is for every audiophile to discover and decide, and this is why getting at a solution for a given problem is often such a challenge. However, nowhere did I write that one shouldn't use a switch. In my two posts prior to the one you quoted, I even referred to the two switches that are part of my audio chain, a QNAP QSW-M408-MC and a MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ IN. What I am still not sure of, however, is how much sense it makes to get rid of electromagnetic interference by introducing a fiber tract in the audio chain, only to introduce the same interference, at whatever level, by again adding copper downstream, necessitating a second tract of fiber to again get rid of electromagnetic interference introduced in the step before last. If I have understood anything of the many hundreds of pages I have read at this forum and recommendations by specialists like Jussi Laako, a single tract of fiber at a stage as late as possible in the audio chain, may well lead to the same outcome. But just to be sure, I am far from being an authority on the subject, and if the chain you described and the opticalModule Deluxe you referred to gives you the sound quality you strive to achieve, fair enough and good for you, there's surely more than one road to Rome.  

[Quokka_61]

2 hours ago, Iving said:

If I insert this Transceiver into PEX20000SFPI, all I get is an exclamation mark in DevMan ("Windows stopped device because it has problem"). I tried setting Speed & Duplex to 1Gb, but no joy. Could I have missed something?

 

Does the driver software for the PEX20000SFPI card offer the option 'Auto-negotiate'? If so, did you check it, in addition to setting Speed & Duplex to 1Gb? I don't know whether this applies to your hardware, but I do remember that not setting this option in the OS of my MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+, caused me quite some hassle before I discovered checking this option made all the difference between dead silence from my loudspeakers and a working fiber connection...

[Quokka_61]

On 3/28/2024 at 6:21 PM, TRHH said:

These are the new switches I am currently looking at:

• HPE - Aruba Instant On 1930 8G Switch (JL680A#ABB)
• QNAP - QSW-2104-2S
• ZyXEL - XGS1010-12

It would be great if anybody knows if they work with FTLF1318P3BTL.

 

Thanks 

 

Torben

 

I haven't used any of these switches, but what I do know is that QNAP switches are very finicky when it comes to the transceivers they work with. I have experienced this with the QNAP QSW-M408-4C which, while being a very sturdy and reliable switch with hardly any downtime over the last 5-6 years, stubbornly refused to work with either the Finisar FTLX1475D3BCV 10G/1G Dual Rate 1310nm Single Mode or the FTLX1475D3BTL 10G 1310nm Single Mode of the same brand. When I contacted QNAP's helpdesk to ask whether any firmware update was in the works to make this switch work with a larger variety of optical transceivers, I was referred to the compatibility list for this switch. Problem with this list was that the transceivers which were mentioned as being compatible, were either out of production or impossible to get for reasonable prices. This is why I gave up on this particular switch as part of my fiber network, and installed a MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+, which happily accepted both my Finisar transceivers. So, if you opt for the QNAP QSW-2104-2S, you're well advised to check its compatibility list (https://www.qnap.com/en/compatibility/?model=534&category=26) and make sure that the recommended transceivers are actually available for sale. For starters, the FTLF1318P3BTL you referred to isn't featuring on the compatability list, so you may have to do some further digging.