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JRiver Media Center DSD Output Question


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Hi Guys - I'm playing DSD content via USB to a Simaudio 380D DSD DAC from JRiver Media Center. The DAC comes with an ASIO driver and works with WASAPI as well. This DAC accepts both DoP and native DSD.

 

Assumption: The "Bitstreaming: Yes (DSD)" option within JRiver Media Center means that the output can be either native DSD or DoP depending on the output Audio Device.

 

When I select WASAPI output I believe setting the "Bitstreaming: Yes (DSD)" option equates to DoP. When using ASIO I believe DSD is output natively when "Bitstreaming: Yes (DSD)" is selected. This is odd because one setting can be both native and DoP.

 

When outputting via WASAPI with "Bitstreaming: Yes (DSD)" selected I can stream DSD64 and DSD128 to the DAC. This is logical because DSD64 requires 176.4 kHz support and DSD128 requires 352.8 support. In order to stream DSD256 the DAC would have to support 705.6 kHz input and it doesn't support this high of a sample rate.

 

When outputting via ASIO with "Bitstreaming: Yes (DSD)" selected I can stream DSD64, DSD128, and DSD256 without issues. If I go into the audio device settings and select "DSD bitstream in DoP format" this setting overrides the other "Bitstreaming: Yes (DSD)" setting or just flips the "Bitstreaming: Yes (DSD)" setting to be DoP rather than native DSD.

 

 

Question: Does anyone know if my assumption is correct?

 

 

asio-dsd.png

 

 

 

asio-dop.png

 

 

 

wasapi-dsd.png

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems

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Hi Chris -

 

I usually leave the Output Format enabled under Options -> Audio -> Settings -> DSP & output format enabled, and control what is going out through there. Usually it only presents the valid options based upon your hardware and driver. For example, it will allow Native DSD output with ASIO, and DoP with pretty much everything else.

 

This is perhaps not optimal for what you are trying to do though. I think the Bitstreaming->DSD/HDMI/etc. option does what you think it does, but of course, the main option there is to avoid having JRMC decode complex streams and pass the undecoded stream on to your device. It should work the way you think. :)

 

-Paul

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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Hi Chris -

 

I usually leave the Output Format enabled under Options -> Audio -> Settings -> DSP & output format enabled, and control what is going out through there. Usually it only presents the valid options based upon your hardware and driver. For example, it will allow Native DSD output with ASIO, and DoP with pretty much everything else.

 

This is perhaps not optimal for what you are trying to do though. I think the Bitstreaming->DSD/HDMI/etc. option does what you think it does, but of course, the main option there is to avoid having JRMC decode complex streams and pass the undecoded stream on to your device. It should work the way you think. :)

 

-Paul

Hi Paul - I experimented a bit with the DSP output formats, but believe those settings change all output to that specific setting whether it's PCM or DSD etc...

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems

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Chris, only certain ASIO drivers (built by the DAC manufacturer) can deliver raw DSD to the DAC for ASIO (I wrote an article about the term "native" last weekend for NativeDSD's tech corner, now reprinted by PFO and the German HiFi Statement...go figure... , that states both DoP and ASIO are native so let's use the term "raw" for ASIO). Most ASIO drivers (Meitner, for example) are not able to deliver raw, so DoP must be used. Note: DoP was chosen as being ubiquitous and when I ask certain DAC manufacturers why their ASIO driver won't do raw they say it's not worth the effort while DoP exists. Folks like George Klissarov at exaSound believe otherwise, and have not only delivered ASIO for Windows but also ASIO for MAC.

 

JRiver's 'bistream DSD yes" toggle is automatically checking whether DoP or raw is being delivered and is therefore correct for either (JRiver used to ask you to choose).

 

Raw DSD is also available via things like I2S (my Rendu into PS Audio Directstream, for example) and in some cases via USB via Alsa configuration (Linux).

 

JRiver's submenu in the driver section has a checkbox for DoP which can be implemented with some ASIO drivers. Otherwise if a DAC delivers DoP don't use ASIO; use WASAPI or KS in Windows, and Core Audio in OSX.

 

By the way, I;m not sure even DSD256 via DoP exists. Can someone name one implementation? Yes, it would require 24/768k (705 actually) but I see where folks like JRiver offer quad and octa-DSD upsampling via ASIO-compliance, the highest they do under DoP is DSD128. I don't know where the limitation is. And DoP DSD512, well that one requires deep space PCM for sure.

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Hi Paul - I experimented a bit with the DSP output formats, but believe those settings change all output to that specific setting whether it's PCM or DSD etc...

 

Yes, they do, which is why I was thinking it might not meet your need. I just had a few minutes to play here at work, and only with a iFi Nano, but it looks like leaving the DSP Output Format option enabled sends DSD to the DAC at native rate, either ASIO or DOP depending upon the device selected. That's without selecting DSD output for everything.

 

With it deselected, I got some strange stuff, but I am not sure if that is what is supposed to happen, or just because I was rushing.

 

Also, I did the quick testing on a Mac using Bootcamp into Windows 10 Preview, so I don't entirely trust those results.

 

Yours,

-Paul

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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  • 1 year later...
Raw DSD is also available via things like I2S (my Rendu into PS Audio Directstream, for example) and in some cases via USB via Alsa configuration (Linux).

 

Hi Ted,

I have a similar system - JRiver MC 21, PS Audio DirectStream DAC, Sonore Rendu using I2S interface.

 

How did you configure JRiver to send the raw DSD files to the Sonore Rendu so they can be sent on through the I2S interface to the DS DAC?

 

When I send a DSD file to the DS DAC it shows 'Input: DOP Rate: DSD64 1 Bit' on the display.

 

I would expect the Input to say DSD if it is really raw DSD.

Am I missing something?

 

I appreciate any advice you can give me,

Chip

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