The "Official" Aurender Discussion Thread

[Quadiffusor HK]

I'm an audiophile based in Hong Kong.  I've owned a W20 for about five years, and during that time it's performed flawlessly, even through an upgrade to a higher-capacity HD.  However, with the acquisition of a USB-input capable high end DAC, I tried connecting the dedicated USB 2.0 output of the W20 for the first time about a year ago, and discovered that there was no signal.  After many intermittent communications back/forth between Aurender HQ, including remote servicing, it was finally determined that there was a hardware failure.  I thought that this was very strange, particularly I had never used the dedicated USB 2.0 output before and that the chances of accidentally damaging it was zero.  After speaking with dealers and audiophiles familiar with the Aurender products, stories began to surface that a "dead" USB 2.0 output was quite common, requiring a hardware fix.  How many Aurender owners on this Forum have experienced a similar fate with their new units?

[Quadiffusor HK]

OK, so the potential culprit may be an innocent attempt at plugging in a USB cable while the unit or units are powered on.  Does that mean powering down the components are a "must", but only when connecting two components (ie. Aurender and outboard DAC) via USB for the very first time?

[Quadiffusor HK]

4 hours ago, isquirrel said:

I have a W20 coupled to a MSB Select II DAC. I use the AES 110 ohm single connection and the word clock is synced via a 75 ohm BNC cable. Both cables are Shunyata's top end Sigma's which sound excellent and are an improvement over the Transparent Gen 5 cables which we used previously.

 

I have noticed that a couple off posts here have stated that the 75 ohm SPDIF connection is superior when using a single cable. I am trying to get some more information on this. I can also use the word clock with the 75 ohm SPDIF connection.

 

I do not have a spare 75 ohm SPDIF cable to try this out. 

 

Can anyone who has experience with this comment on their experience and the impact it has on Sound Quality please?

Hi iSquirrel,

 

I also have a W20 coupled to a MSB Select II DAC (with dual mono Powerbases), but with a Trinnov Audio Amethyst room-correction preamplifier in between.  The source components are connected using Stealth Audio Sextet AES/EBU digital cables (circa 2007), which I’m very happy with.

 

I have 2 x 1.5 meter VH Audio Pulsar Ag 75 ohm S/PDIF cables terminated with Furutech BNC connectors; one for the clocklink from the MSB going into the W20, and the other for the S/PDIF output from the Aurender going direct into the MSB DAC.

https://www.vhaudio.com/pulsar-cu-airlok-single.html

 

Note that the MSB’s clocklink is actually designed to work with the 50 ohm standard which apparently is standard in broadcasting, as opposed to the 75 ohm standard which is common in home audio.  When asked about compatibility between these disparate standards, MSB replied that it shouldn’t be an issue because the physical distance between the transmitter and receiver is short.

 

My Aurender W20 has a defective USB 2.0 output since I bought it about four years ago, and it has been an absolute nightmare to repair - it was in the shop for an entire month for troubleshooting and replacement of the USB 2.0 connector, which ultimately did not solve the problem.  Now awaiting the arrival of a new motherboard from Korea for replacement.  I need the USB 2.0 output to be working so that I can finally experience native DSD as well as full MQA decoding from my DAC.

 

On the subject of which connection (AES/EBU vs S/PDIF) yields a better sound, I confess that I haven’t yet had a chance to compare the two, as in my current component rack placement configuration, I don’t have an AES/EBU cable which is long enough for the W20’s output to reach my DAC... ?

 

But lots to report and share once the USB 2.0 connector is fixed !  ?

[Quadiffusor HK]

On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 6:43 AM, AriMargolis said:

@Booster MPS congrats on your new N100H!

 

You can assign  "star" rating (1 to 5 stars) to your favorite tracks. The app has a star filter which, when engaged, will reveal all the content that you have starred/"favorited". This way you can group your favorite stuff and access it via the star filter.

Regarding the "Star" rating system, I've written Aurender multiple times over the past 6+ years since I've owned the W20, to request incorporating the ability for the Aurender Conductor software to "Star" albums, and preferably rank albums with none (default) or 1 to 5 stars.  For me, it's FAR more important to be able to rank albums than to be able to rank individual songs, as I normally select entire albums to play (and not individual songs).  The TIDAL software allows a star/no-star selection process, and I love it.  What do other Aurender owners think?

[Quadiffusor HK]

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 6:34 AM, AriMargolis said:

@Quadiffusor HK I personally agree with you there as well. Adding it to our feature request list now.

Hi @AriMargolis - will the new Conductor 3.0 be able to "Star Rate" albums?  Even a binary yes/no star system would be totally adequate; as we discussed, users really need a method to distinguish their favorite albums (a discrete collection of songs in a single vehicle) to separate them from the tens of hundreds of thousands of individual songs, typical of an average Aurender owner's collection.

[Quadiffusor HK]

14 hours ago, AriMargolis said:

@Quadiffusor HK this is a feature that we can probably add soon after releasing Conductor 3.0, however it has not been prepared for the initial release. Adding any additional features now would only slow the process down as additional QA and beta testing is required. It sounds like a simple feature (and, it is), but any time we do anything that involves editing the library database, there can be unforeseen difficulties. 

“Additional features”?

Being able to “star” an album should hardly be considered rocket science - besides, it’s a feature that has been requested since a couple of years ago already!

 

”Can probably add”?

What does this mean, exactly?

Will the database architecture for Conductor 3.0  be able to support this very basic feature?  Why all the obfuscation?  I’m more confused than ever.

[Quadiffusor HK]

On ‎7‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 1:01 AM, AriMargolis said:

@Quadiffusor HK you'll be pleased to know (as am I) that we are prioritizing a feature where one can assign a star rating to all tracks on the album with one command. You can then go back and adjust the number of stars for each individual track if you want. 

 

So, it is still track-by-track based ratings, but you don't have to assign them one-by-one. This will be easier than creating a new database field for album-associated ratings. 

 

Please don't ask "when"...if I had an answer to that question I would share it!  

@AriMargolis That would be an interesting feature for those accustomed to star-rating individual tracks for the majority of their music library, but my guess is that very few people actually do that, as there are 10s of thousands, if not 100s of thousands of individual tracks in an audiophile's rather large library.  For example, I have only star-rated less than 100 individual songs which I believe are truly exceptional, so that I can track and recall them discretely.  Hence, this new feature would not be something I'll ever use, as doing so will create a massive and equally unmanageable situation of a zillion stars, whose utility and value will likely become severely diluted.

 

AGAIN, I implore the team to add a new feature to be able to star-rate ALBUMS (and not just individual tracks) - or just as useful, to be able to simply apply a binary star-ON or star-OFF identifier to individual albums.  This simple feature will help separate noteworthy individual albums from the ever-growing, hundreds of thousands of albums out there, whose utility and value should be very simple to see and understand.  TIDAL already offers this feature, and simply said, it is THE most useful tool to have, bar none !

[Quadiffusor HK]

How does one delete this post?  Please help - thanks!

[Quadiffusor HK]

On ‎7‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 6:02 AM, AriMargolis said:

@Quadiffusor HK I think you're misunderstanding how this would work - I think we're both talking about the same thing: a feature where the whole album's worth of tracks would be rate-able in one command. Then, when you use the "star" filter to view albums that you have starred or "favorited", all of those tracks from all of those albums will show up. Of course they'll still be sorted and browesable by complete album, not just by track. This completely accomplishes the goal of what you're trying to achieve:

 

@AriMargolis, yes I'm afraid I don't understand.  I would appreciate your patience, to explain once again how to tag single albums without birthing zillions of unrelated stars ratings (for individual tracks inside that one album) in the process, as this would cause great harm in destroying and diluting my carefully-curated star rating database on individual tracks I had already built separately.  Essentially, I'm interested in tagging a couple of restaurants out of the thousands I've visited over my lifetime without having to star rank every single entrée on each restaurant's menu.  I hope you understand this analogy, so you can help direct your software team to develop this software feature in the Aurender Conductor App.  Thank you!

[Quadiffusor HK]

On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 10:22 PM, Quadiffusor HK said:

@AriMargolis, yes I'm afraid I don't understand.  I would appreciate your patience, to explain once again how to tag single albums without birthing zillions of unrelated stars ratings (for individual tracks inside that one album) in the process, as this would cause great harm in destroying and diluting my carefully-curated star rating database on individual tracks I had already built separately.  Essentially, I'm interested in tagging a couple of restaurants out of the thousands I've visited over my lifetime without having to star rank every single entrée on each restaurant's menu.  I hope you understand this analogy, so you can help direct your software team to develop this software feature in the Aurender Conductor App.  Thank you!

 

@AriMargolis, congrats on your team for (finally) getting the Aurender Conductor 3.0 released !

 

Spoiler alert - I'm going to resume my request (rant?) to you and the Aurender software team to add a very simple feature, which I've been asking for several years (already).  It seems you haven't yet grasped my analogy in my previous email (above) using restaurants and the contents inside menus, so let me turn to a visual aid (see attachment).

 

Please add a feature in the Aurender Conductor which allows the user to mark/tag an album in the library (stored on the HDs) with a Favorite "star", so that the album can be grouped within a folder of "liked" albums for easy recall and playback.  The attached photo shows just such as feature which is already available in the TIDAL app.  Why can't the Aurender Conductor App be elevated above the Stone Age, regarding this very simple feature?  I still do not understand just what the holdup is.

 

I want to reiterate that this requested feature is separate from the "zero-to-five star" rating for individual songs/tracks, which still does NOT allow the user to file, select, and playback *entire* albums on command.  The procedure which you described to me in recent exchanges to "star" rate all of the songs on an album simultaneously does NOT achieve the objective I'm asking for, as it spawns zillions of unnecessary and unwelcome  star ratings on individual songs.  The two lists can (and should) be mutually exclusive - do you understand this distinction I'm making between star ratings on albums vs. individual songs?

 

Thank you again for passing along this request to your software team; fingers crossed that this feature will be incorporated ASAP!  :-)

[Quadiffusor HK]

On 1/21/2020 at 10:48 PM, udis said:

 

I've attempted to use the "Favorites" filter, but I am unable to favorite an entire album - only individual tracks. Is it possible to favorite an entire album? If so, how?

FYI, I have been requesting this feature (to be able to “favorite” an album) for a few years already, with no response from Aurender... 😓

[Quadiffusor HK]

On 6/10/2019 at 2:25 PM, Quadiffusor HK said:

Regarding the "Star" rating system, I've written Aurender multiple times over the past 6+ years since I've owned the W20, to request incorporating the ability for the Aurender Conductor software to "Star" albums, and preferably rank albums with none (default) or 1 to 5 stars.  For me, it's FAR more important to be able to rank albums than to be able to rank individual songs, as I normally select entire albums to play (and not individual songs).  The TIDAL software allows a star/no-star selection process, and I love it.  What do other Aurender owners think?

Since becoming an owner of the Aurender W20 seven-and-a-half years ago, I've been patiently waiting for an update in Aurender's Conductor which enable the clicking of an album to mark it as a "Favorite", much like how TIDAL's app (within the Conductor app) does this with a single yellow "Star" rating.  About 1.5 years ago, I gave up in frustration (and shock !) when I was told that this was not possible.  Does anyone know if the latest Aurender Conductor software (4.21.238) has FINALLY made this simple feature possible? @AriMargolis?

[Quadiffusor HK]

4 hours ago, AriMargolis said:

@Quadiffusor HK yes we agree it would be convenient to be able to apply "star" ratings to a complete album as opposed to track-by-track. As I told you before, although it may sound simple, I'm told that this would require a very in-depth revamp of the library database structure which could cause many unforeseen side effects. 

 

This feature will likely become available sometime in the future but I have no information as to when. 

Hi @AriMargolis, sounds like "mission impossible", the way you describe it...  OK, at least you've helped set Users' expectations back to reality.  Sobering, but nevertheless good to know.  Thanks.

[Quadiffusor HK]

Hi Folks, Hi Fellow W20 owners!

 

Greetings from Hong Kong.  I've owned the Aurender W20 from around seven years ago, and have been very satisfied with its performance as well as the excellent support provided by @AriMargolis and his technical team.

 

I have a few questions regarding the compatibility/connection of the W20 to an external 10MHz sinewave master clock.  After hearing the benefits for my three SOtM components (nH-10G x 2, and USBultra x 1) I'm having a serious thought about buying the Cybershaft OP21A

Mono & Stereo © 2020: NEW CYBERSHAFT OCXO MASTER CLOCKS (monoandstereo.com)

 

1) Is the W20's BNC clocklink connector only compatible only with a 75 ohm connector and clock cable?  If so, 10MHz sine wave master clocks typically require a 50 ohm connector/cable, so that would imply a mis-match

 

2) Is a 10MHz sine wave master clock signal compatible with the W20 when only the asynchronous USB output is used?

 

Previously, I've experienced conflicts between my MSB Select II DAC's wordclock output - either 44.1kHz or 48.0kHz multiples (depending on the source) - and the W20's wordclock input, which required the disconnection of the BNC clocklink cable to prevent constant hiccups.

 

3) In general, would a 10MHz external masterclock signwave signal be simply a "plug in and forget" connection to the W20, agnostic to both the source (whether streaming TIDAL or playing back ripped ALAC/WAV files) and the output connection (whether synchronous S/PDIF coax, synchronous AES/EBU, or asynchronous USB)?

 

Thanks in advance for your help in helping me navigate through this!

 

[Quadiffusor HK]

Dear @AriMargolis and fellow Aurender owners,

 

What happens inside the circuit board (and chips) of the Aurender W20 when an external 10MHz sinewave master clock is connected?  What does the W20 do with the master clock signal?  Where does the master clock signal go, and when is it used, under what circumstances?

 

When only the USB output is used, will the W20 completely ignore the 10MHz sinewave master clock which is connected to the BNC Word Clock input?  Or, even then only the USB output is used, will the 10MHz sinewave master clock be used to “help” the W20 process the incoming digital signal more precisely, much like how outboard switches and USB conditioners do?

 

The answers to the questions above are important to me is because I will be making decisions on whether or not to buy very expensive equipment (and cabling) to deliver a 10MHz sinewave master clock signal to the Aurender W20.  I know for sure that the master clock will benefit the other three peripheral devices, namely the SOtM nH-10G (2 units), and the SOtM USBultra (1 unit).

 

Will the W20's front panel even display / verify the connection to a 10MHz sine wave master clock signal?

[Quadiffusor HK]

On the W20's motherboard, there are several crystal oscillators - including a 45.1584MHz, 49.152MHz, and 12.8MHz OCXO clocks.  Which are "overridden" when a 10MHz sine wave Master Clock is connected?  How are the word clock's "native" frequencies synthesized?

[Quadiffusor HK]

@AriMargolis, I'm still wondering what the W20 does with a 10MHz Master Clock... it would be great if you could help chime into answering some of my questions above - thank you!

 

BTW, this post by John Swensen on page 115 on the forum topic, "Uptone Audio REGEN" explains in exquisite detail the USB protocol - I now appreciate a lot more what engineers have to contend with when ensuring data integrity using USB !

 

 

 

[Quadiffusor HK]

On 1/29/2021 at 10:38 AM, AriMargolis said:

@Quadiffusor HKThank you very much for your thoughtful technical questions. I’m discussing your questions with engineering to make sure I can answer them completely. I can tell you now that a 10Mhz Master Clock is compatible and the 50 ohm mismatch shouldn’t be a problem for a sine wave clock signal (but I need to get some more info about this particular part of your question).

 

Due to the nature of asynchronous USB, the clock input on Aurenders with clock inputs has no impact whatsoever on what the unit is doing when output USB. It only applies to SPDIF/AES-EBU outputs. 

 

And, yes, the the clock sync signal will be displayed on screen when an external master clock or word clock is in use.

 

Hello @AriMargolis

 

Thank you for your response above - they're helpful !

 

However, I still don't understand why a "perfect" external Master Clock would benefit the Aurender W20's performance ONLY when the output is a synchronous protocol (S/PDIF or AES/EBU).  My assumption (it may not be correct) is that ALL digital processing functions benefit from lower jitter, lower spurious noise, and better digital cadence, largely because of improved edge detection of the binary gradient between digital 1s and 0s.  This basic function is called "flip flop" (see article below).

 

No matter whether the output is asynchronous USB, doesn't the W20 benefit from an uber-precise, uber-low phase noise external Master Clock, regardless?

 

" The basic engineering definition of reclocking is running a digital signal through a flip-flop. This will constrain the edges of the input signal to only change at the active edge (negative or positive) of the clock fed to the flip-flop. There a couple reasons to do this, one is to reduce jitter in the input signal (as long as the FF clock has lower jitter than the input signal), another is to synchronize the timing on the input signal to a different "domain".

 

Reclocking can be either synchronous or asynchronous. In synchronous reclocking the clock fed to the FF is exactly the same frequency as the clock used to generate the input stream (or an integer multiple). This can be because the to clocks were derived some the same clock, OR one of the clocks used a PLL to synchronize it to the other. "

 

 

[Quadiffusor HK]

I’ve been experiencing an intermittent problem with my Aurender W20 during the past 2-3 months, under the following conditions:

 

1) W20 on standby mode, with AC cable connected, powered down from a bright-glow square button on the chassis, to a soft-glow square, via the Conductor App, pressing down on the blue play/pause button and “Power off” selected (instead of “Pause”).

 

2) Next morning, a manual push on the soft-glow square on the chassis, for it to go through its usual power-on cycle, taking about a minute, resulting in a bright-glow square, and the display showing “Select Song”

 

3) Upon launching the Conductor App on my iPad Pro, and seeing the usual interface window appear, a message “updating Aurender” appears in a blue square.  Then, the W20 powers down, disconnects, and becomes unresponsive to the Conductor’s command.  Manually pushing the square button is the only way to resume operations and connection to the Commander App.  Upon turn-on, the amber VU meter becomes visible momentarily, even though that particular display option is not selected as a default.

Anyone else experiencing this very strange and unwelcome behavior on their Aurender units, requiring powering on TWICE before it’s operational?

 

BTW, I have the following versions installed:

Aurender App version: 3.12.47 (8)

Aurender System App version: 4.21.309 (W20}

 

I have not reported this issue to Aurender yet, because I was waiting for an updated firmware software, but apparently this problem has persisted through a number of incremental software updates...

 

 

 

 

 

[Quadiffusor HK]

On 4/7/2021 at 6:22 PM, Vincent1234 said:

Sorry to read about your troubles. But, why would you shut down your W20 each time? The usual practice would be to leave it in stand-by by pushing the pause button (on the W20 or in Conductor). After 5 minutes or so the W20 will go into sleep mode. Problem solved.. 😉

Hi Vincent,

In my installation, AC power is delivered from my PS Audio P20 to the Aurender W20.  Effectively, there's a 25% penalty due to losses related to the P20's inefficiency.  While streaming, the W20 consumes about 33W x 1.25 = 41W.  Pushing pause, and waiting for the W20 to go into standby only saves 3W, as it consumes 30watts x 1.25 = 38W.  I see no point of running it 24/7/365 because on average, my W20 is not used 70-80% of the time.  Additionally, the peripheral external SOtM boxes (nH-10G x 2, USBultra x 1) and their DC power supplies consume at least 80W x 1.25 = 100W.  Combined, that's a savings of ~140W if I power them off.

[Quadiffusor HK]

OK, so the P20 is supposed to the 85% efficient, which implies that the power loss is only about 15%:
https://forum.psaudio.com/t/how-much-power-power-does-p20-draw-itself/6781

[Quadiffusor HK]

Hooray!  In less than a week after ordering, my new N30 arrived in Singapore from Korea !  It's the perfect Christmas present for myself - beautiful in appearance and sonics, I'm overjoyed.

 

[Quadiffusor HK]

Hi Ari,

Hi Folks on this thread,

 

After powering the N30 off, it requires around 90 seconds to resume operations as it goes through a rather long and elaborate rebooting process.  So rather than powering the unit on/off on a daily basis, it seems that "standby mode" is the most prudent way to access speedy response time, while balancing the need to be eco/resource efficient.

 

But looking under Settings/Aurender/PowerControl, the option to engage "Standby mode" has disappeared, implying that it's no longer possible to single-push the N30's power button to put it into standby mode.  Indeed, a quick single push on the on/off button results in the N30 cycling into a ~30 second powering-off mode; upon pushing the button again, it goes through the entire ~90 second rebooting process.

 

HELP !!

 

1) Why has Aurender taken away the standby mode?  Why must the N30 to always be in either fully-on, or fully cold, with nothing in between?  I'm assuming the temperature sensitive OCXO can be kept warm independently from the rest of the machine.

 

2) Does the N30 automatically go into standby mode after a period of non-activity?  How much idle time needs to elapse before this happens?  Assuming that N30 goes to "sleep" automatically, what must be done to "wake" it?

 

3) How can the N30 be forced to go into "standby/sleep" mode?

 

4) Is the baseline power consumption of the N30 during "streaming only" mode the same as "play" mode (4W, says the brochure - see attached)?

 

Your advice would be greatly appreciated !

[Quadiffusor HK]

I did a search on this thread using the key word "standby", and found the following link:

 

https://aurender.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360026675874-What-is-the-proper-way-to-shut-down-my-Aurender-

 

However, I'm still curious about why there is no proper standby mode.  I'd still curious about the answers to my four questions above, to fill the gaps in my understanding.  Thanks!

[Quadiffusor HK]

Folks, for the past six months, I haven't had the chance to visit this Forum much; hence would appreciate understanding when Aurender's next iOS compatible Conductor app (Gen 4.0 ?) is expected to be released.  My N30 purchased just last week shows the current Conductor app version to be 3.17.15(6), and the system software version to be 1.21.971.

 

One particularly annoying issue with the current version of the Aurender software is its inability to "Like" (Favorite) an album stored on the HDD.  I found it unbelievable that in this day and age, one can't create (and see) a list of Favorite albums (ripped CDs and downloaded high-rez albums purchased with REAL money) !