MSB Analog DAC/Luxman DA-6 kind of sonic signature for under 3000?

[mav52]

I wonder what category do any of the exaSound e22, Exogal Comet, Oppo HA-1, Lindemann musicbook:10, Audiobyte Black Dragon and Rockna Wavedream dacs, fall into.. or any of the advanced DSP, room correction DACs

 

Maybe all DACS should be classed into one of those categories. Are ya a #1 or a # 2 , but the ears making that distinction are or could be different that ours.

[elf]

some vague common notions and denominators are better than nothing, although I agree one should be careful and still listen before buying anything. I imagine trusting more experienced folks by explaining as best as we can what we are looking for wound surely help someone like me to at least narrow things down.

 

The way we "half-understand" and"half-trust" each other's opinions and perspectives is one of the fundamental reasons such forums exist in the first place.

If nobody heard any of the mentioned dacs, I guess for some it's normal since they're very new, I promise to contribute back to the community whenever I will be able to audition any of them.

[Elberoth]

From what I've heard, the new Cary DAC-100t may also fit in #2 category, and would be within your budget (new).

[Stereolab42]

Taking the edge off stuff is kinda what I'm looking for, but not if that translates in loss of detail. Not highlighting detail like needles is just fine, a natural, organic presentation is what I need. Is there a difference in the way Jriver upsamples, compared to HQPlayer? Has anyone tried both?

 

Tried last night upsampling to DSD256 with JPlayer, with the exaSound e20. It does sound great, but I could not immediately tell the difference versus sending unconverted PCM or lower-rate DSD to the DAC. I take this as signal that the DAC is doing a fine job with its internal conversions without needing software assistance. I was able to get occasional success upconverting with HQPlayer, but the clunky interface and the constant hangs/crashes left me frustrated.

[wisnon]

I take it you use a Mac?? Hence the beta software crashes...

 

Did HQ Player sound better than JRiver?

[Stereolab42]

I take it you use a Mac?? Hence the beta software crashes...

 

Did HQ Player sound better than JRiver?

 

A Mac, never! Windows-only here. I can actually get it converting using "minningFIR", but any of the sinc filters cause an instant hang. I can't tell a difference in SQ versus JRiver with DSD256 on the working filter.

[bibo01]

A Mac, never! Windows-only here. I can actually get it converting using "minningFIR", but any of the sinc filters cause an instant hang. I can't tell a difference in SQ versus JRiver with DSD256 on the working filter.

You must have some problems with your PC because here we have a whole lot of HQPlayer Windows users whithout such hangs. Normally it is preferable to use poly-sinc family filters.

Have you done any slimming to your PC system by any chance?

[k6davis]

What an interesting thread! I have a DSD-Only Lampi L4 (balanced, with Duelund caps & volume control) that I run direct to my amp. (I've described my rig so many times. I need to create a signature!)

 

Anyway, I was intrigued by the unique properties of the Lampi DSD in general (no DAC chip, tube output stage & power supply, etc) and especially with the model as I have it optioned. I'm a big fan of DSD upsampling and eliminating PCM conversion (which I wouldn't have used anyway) was a way to get the Lampizator sound for a little less money. I real-time convert everything to DSD128 in JRiver/Dual WS2012 Core Mode/Audiophile Optimizer/Paul Pang USB.

 

What I'm finding is that, between these interesting #1 & #2 categories, I feel that I have a perfect balance. The Lampi is definitely "lush", but it also has lots of detail, high frequency extension & transparency. The DAC is wonderful by itself, but the server enhancements I've made really bring the best out of it. So, I've achieved a very pleasing synergy.

 

I have not heard better sound in my life, but then I have not heard *any* of the big(ger) gun DAC that are frequently discussed here. What I can say is that it would take something truly special to sound better in a way that would make me want to part with $$$. Though my rig is hardly inexpensive, I do feel that I've found a "cheap" way to get performance far beyond what I spent.

 

To get in at the price point the OP mentioned (which isn't that low.. 3000 EUR?), I'd strongly consider either a used L4 or a Lampi Amber, with DSD, of course. I tried mine knowing that I could return it no questions asked.

 

I take it you use a Mac?? Hence the beta software crashes...

 

Did HQ Player sound better than JRiver?

 

I recently tried HQPlayer and found that, as Eurodriver & others here have said, its DSD upsampling was definitely superior to JRiver's... in Win7/8. However HQPlayer doesn't work with WS2012, and therefore it doesn't work with the Audiophile Optimizer. When I compared HQPlayer/Win7 vs JRiver/WS2012/AO (which was absolutely not blind, and necessitated a reboot to switch each time), I couldn't pick a winner based on sonics - they sounded very similar. Both were superb and my "favorite" was whichever was playing at the time. However, JRiver's robust UI is much more to my liking than HQPlayer's minimalist interface.

 

It's a shame HQPlayer won't run in WS2012/AO. If the sonic benefits of all of those things were cumulative, that would be very interesting indeed!

[Stereolab42]

You must have some problems with your PC because here we have a whole lot of HQPlayer Windows users whithout such hangs. Normally it is preferable to use poly-sinc family filters.

Have you done any slimming to your PC system by any chance?

 

My PC is entirely custom and very fast. I will dedicate some time to playing around with HQPlayer on the weekend. I am probably doing something stupid.

[bibo01]

...

 

It's a shame HQPlayer won't run in WS2012/AO. If the sonic benefits of all of those things were cumulative, that would be very interesting indeed!

 

HQPlayer does not support WS2012, you are absolutely correct.

However, I know a few people who use HQPlayer under WS2012+AO regularly. I am not sure if they employ a 2-PCs system though. I think Philip helped in the set-up.

The problem is that they may have to face problems at each HQPlayer revision.

 

A way around this is for you to try HQPlayer under Windows with a NAA, specifically a CuBox-i. Most people I know of have found improvements with this setup.

[bibo01]

My PC is entirely custom and very fast. I will dedicate some time to playing around with HQPlayer on the weekend. I am probably doing something stupid.

Have fun!

But do not worry, it is the machine that is stupid not you!

[Elberoth]

I real-time convert everything to DSD128 in JRiver/Dual WS2012 Core Mode/Audiophile Optimizer/Paul Pang USB.

 

What are the settings needed to perform the real time upsampling to DSD in Jriver ?

[wisnon]

Adam, I think this may be covered in the JRiver tips thread...

[wisnon]

HQPlayer does not support WS2012, you are absolutely correct.

However, I know a few people who use HQPlayer under WS2012+AO regularly. I am not sure if they employ a 2-PCs system though. I think Philip helped in the set-up.

The problem is that they may have to face problems at each HQPlayer revision.

 

A way around this is for you to try HQPlayer under Windows with a NAA, specifically a CuBox-i. Most people I know of have found improvements with this setup.

 

So is it possible to use Win2012 with AO in core Mode with HQPlayer then? Can you point me to discussion where people have done this successfully. How does an NAA make a difference? I thought HQ Player for Windows ONLY works with an NAA.

[k6davis]

What are the settings needed to perform the real time upsampling to DSD in Jriver ?

 

Here are the steps starting from the menu bar:

 

Tools | Options | Audio | Settings | DSP & Output Format | Output Encoding

 

Using the latest updates of either JRiver 19 or JRiver 20, you can choose DSD64 (ASIO or DoP), DSD128 (ASIO or DoP) or DSD256 (ASIO).

[k6davis]

So is it possible to use Win2012 with AO in core Mode with HQPlayer then? Can you point me to discussion where people have done this successfully. How does an NAA make a difference? I thought HQ Player for Windows ONLY works with an NAA.

 

I would also like to know more about how this is possible.

 

As far as I know, you can't install HQPlayer in WS2012 regardless of the mode or the presence or absence of AO. If I'm wrong and HQPlayer will run on WS2012 in GUI (or minimal server) mode, that would be worth investigating. Especially if it can be run in conjunction with AO.

 

You can definitely use HQPlayer in Win 7/8 without a NAA.

[bibo01]

So is it possible to use Win2012 with AO in core Mode with HQPlayer then? Can you point me to discussion where people have done this successfully. How does an NAA make a difference? I thought HQ Player for Windows ONLY works with an NAA.

I am not sure if it is in Gui or core mode, but for sure with AO. I cannot point out to a specific thread. Your best bet would be to ask Philip.

I confirm that HQPlayer for Windows can work with or without NAA.

[elf]

Has anyone tried Room correction DACs or processors like emotiva xmc-1? Do any of them sound cat.2 like, at less than 3000 euros?

[worldcat]

I don't know if this is the thread for this maybe you should start a new one, but DEQX would be interesting to hear!

 

Has anyone tried Room correction DACs or processors like emotiva xmc-1? Do any of them sound cat.2 like, at less than 3000 euros?

[elf]

here goes: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/dacs-room-correction-sound-signatures-21615/

[ALRAINBOW]

It's not about trusting others it's about others choices in what they like. I think many here have great ears for changes but make choices different then others. I am one for sure. I read early in the thread of up-sampling PCM to DSD. I have tried this many times on different dacs and CPU s. It's never my choice. It changes the pcm sound and it's not DSD either. But many like this. This alone proves my point we cannot use others totally for our own choices. Unless you find someone who has your choice in the same. I have such a person on here. But still others i trust but know there not with my choice.

Al