Classical music PCM to DSD up sampled releases ?

[rodaguilera]

I was passing by the chandos label site and came across one tiny detail in a recording of Josef Suk: A Summer's Tale. The label offers for downloading through the Site eclassical 24bit/96kHz files. The same site reports that the album was recorded in 24bit/96kHz. But you can buy the physical disc with the SACD layer. Take another example: BEETHOVEN, L. van: Symphony No. 9, "Choral" (Minnesota Orchestra, Vänskä) by BIS. The site eclassical reports that the recording was made in 24bit/44khz, but I have the physical disc SACD. Error information on the site or actually the majority of the labels never record directly to SACD or even 192kHz. I think most when doing high resolution recordings choose to record on 96khz.

 

Channel Classics is a label that at least inform the system used in recording their releases(e.g. Rachel Podger last release):

 

Digital converter

dsd Super Audio /Grimm Audio

Pyramix Editing / Merging Technologies

 

 

 

 

Just my thoughts, please if anyone have more information(technical or not) don't hesitate to share. Maybe i'll send an email questioning it directly to the label.

 

 

[rodaguilera]

I found out another clue in the new Gramophone Award disc from BIS records: Sharon Bezaly great works for flute and orchestra. On the booklet pages i found the following info:

 

Equipment: Neumann microphones; RME Micstasy microphone preamplifier and high resolution A/D converter;

Yamaha DM1000 digital mixer; Sequoia Workstation; Pyramix DSD Workstation; B&W 802 Nautilus

loudspeakers; STAX headphones

Original format: 44.1 kHz / 24-bit

 

 

 

So, why DSD? Just to justify 5.0 channels? I'm missing something here?

[Musicophile]

BIS to my knowledge have always been rather transparent about recording in PCM.

 

They only did a handful of native DSD recordings. All more recent SACDs are sourced from 24/44 (until rather recently) and 24/96 (Last 1-2 years) PCM.

[rodaguilera]

BIS to my knowledge have always been rather transparent about recording in PCM.

 

They only did a handful of native DSD recordings. All more recent SACDs are sourced from 24/44 (until rather recently) and 24/96 (Last 1-2 years) PCM.

 

Thanks for the info Musicophile! I think I'm getting more skeptical about 192khz and up, even DSD. With the exception of explicit information like HDtracks did with Miles Davis a Kind of Blue recently transfer.

 

Regards

[Kal Rubinson]

This has been an ongoing issue since the birth of SACD. What is needed is more transparency on the part of the producers.

[Miska]

Many labels see SACD as a physical format to deliver multichannel audio, rather than as a "hires" format.

 

So it depends on point of view, for some it is multichannel vehicle, for others it is hires format. If we take for example Pink Floyd's recent Wish You Were Here SACD-release, I don't know what is the original mastering format, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were something like 24/96 PCM. As physical format SACD is still way to deliver both higher resolution than RedBook CD and also three different sets for the content on same media, CD-layer, hires stereo and multichannel on DSD-layer.

 

Of course it would be nice to know what is the source format for DSD-layer, but it would require all producers to understand audiophile mindset. Not all of them think the same way...

[Kal Rubinson]

Many labels see SACD as a physical format to deliver multichannel audio, rather than as a "hires" format.

 

So it depends on point of view, for some it is multichannel vehicle, for others it is hires format. .................................................................................................................................

 

Of course it would be nice to know what is the source format for DSD-layer, but it would require all producers to understand audiophile mindset. Not all of them think the same way...

 

Well, these two labels make some noise about catering to those who appreciate high quality and that includes audiophiles. When pressed (lightly), they do reveal the resolution of the source material and that is really all most of us want.

 

The best labels, imho, do not see SACD as either for multichannel audio or for "hirez" but as a medium for the highest quality, as they should. Of course, turning a profit is always a significant concern.

[Miska]

The best labels, imho, do not see SACD as either for multichannel audio or for "hirez" but as a medium for the highest quality, as they should. Of course, turning a profit is always a significant concern.

 

Of course there are labels like Channel Classics, Pentatone and others who record in DSD and tell what they are doing.

 

Then rest is about how much into details one wants to go, is DSD-edited-in-DXD native enough or should it state separately that DXD was used for editing?

 

Then, I don't know, but I would like to know, how for example EMI sees things for the WYWH release...

 

But for many cases I've understood that it's about multichannel. Like the Genesis box sets I have where there's SACD and DVD (with DTS 96/24) included for each album. And similar thing for Dark Side Of The Moon SACD release. And same for BIS' releases. But maybe I'm wrong.

[rodaguilera]

Of course there are labels like Channel Classics, Pentatone and others who record in DSD and tell what they are doing.

 

Then rest is about how much into details one wants to go, is DSD-edited-in-DXD native enough or should it state separately that DXD was used for editing?

 

Then, I don't know, but I would like to know, how for example EMI sees things for the WYWH release...

 

But for many cases I've understood that it's about multichannel. Like the Genesis box sets I have where there's SACD and DVD (with DTS 96/24) included for each album. And similar thing for Dark Side Of The Moon SACD release. And same for BIS' releases. But maybe I'm wrong.

 

I have this Genesis box set and cd layer remaster which when can mesure with DR Metter is somewhat loud, with lot's os over peaks (i don't have the original rebook pressings to compare, so please, post here if someone has:

 

A Trick of the Tail [2007 Remaster SACD Source]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR9 over -10.81 dB 01 Dance On a Volcano.aif

DR10 over -13.61 dB 02 Entangled.aif

DR9 over -10.51 dB 03 Squonk.aif

DR8 over -12.63 dB 04 Mad Man Moon.aif

DR8 over -10.84 dB 05 Robbery, Assault and Battery.aif

DR8 -0.30 dB -12.90 dB 06 Ripples....aif

DR9 over -12.03 dB 07 A Trick of the Tail.aif

DR8 over -11.40 dB 08 Los Endos.aif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of files: 8

Official DR value: DR9

 

 

==============================================================================================

 

Abacab [2007 Remaster SACD Source]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR10 over -12.47 dB 01 Abacab.aif

DR9 over -10.96 dB 02 No Reply at All.aif

DR9 over -12.30 dB 03 Me and Sarah Jane.aif

DR8 over -10.34 dB 04 Keep It Dark.aif

DR8 over -10.93 dB 05 Dodo_Lurker.aif

DR9 -0.00 dB -10.15 dB 06 Who Dunnit_.aif

DR9 over -12.60 dB 07 Man on the Corner.aif

DR10 -0.00 dB -12.50 dB 08 Like It or Not.aif

DR11 over -12.53 dB 09 Another Record.aif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of files: 17

Official DR value: DR9

 

 

==============================================================================================

 

And Then There Were Three [2007 Remaster SACD Source]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR8 over -9.31 dB 01 Down and Out.aif

DR8 over -11.83 dB 02 Undertow.aif

DR9 over -10.52 dB 03 Ballad of Big.aif

DR8 over -10.79 dB 04 Snowbound.aif

DR8 over -10.43 dB 05 Burning Rope.aif

DR8 over -10.79 dB 06 Deep in the Motherlode.aif

DR9 over -12.12 dB 07 Many Too Many.aif

DR8 over -9.12 dB 08 Scenes from a Night's Dream.aif

DR9 -0.00 dB -14.04 dB 09 Say It's Alright Joe.aif

DR8 over -9.17 dB 10 The Lady Lies.aif

DR8 over -10.94 dB 11 Follow You Follow Me.aif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of files: 28

Official DR value: DR9

 

 

==============================================================================================

 

Duke [2007 Remaster SACD Source]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR8 over -9.67 dB 1-01 Behind the Lines.aif

DR8 over -11.05 dB 1-02 Duchess.aif

DR12 -4.22 dB -18.21 dB 1-03 Guide Vocal.aif

DR8 over -10.17 dB 1-04 Man of Our Times.aif

DR9 over -10.67 dB 1-05 Misunderstanding.aif

DR8 over -11.45 dB 1-06 Heathaze.aif

DR9 over -10.52 dB 1-07 Turn It on Again.aif

DR8 over -11.02 dB 1-08 Alone Tonight.aif

DR8 -0.00 dB -10.73 dB 1-09 Cul-de-Sac.aif

DR9 over -11.43 dB 1-10 Please Don't Ask.aif

DR9 over -11.23 dB 1-11 Duke's Travels.aif

DR7 over -8.58 dB 1-12 Duke's End.aif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of files: 40

Official DR value: DR9

 

 

==============================================================================================

 

Foxtrot [2007 Remaster SACD Source]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR8 over -11.67 dB 01 Watcher of the Skies.aif

DR10 -0.00 dB -13.40 dB 02 Time Table.aif

DR10 -0.00 dB -12.52 dB 03 Get 'Em out by Friday.aif

DR9 over -12.23 dB 04 Can-Utility and the Coastliners.aif

DR11 -0.06 dB -15.00 dB 05 Horizons.aif

DR9 over -12.64 dB 06 Supper's Ready.aif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of files: 46

Official DR value: DR9

 

 

==============================================================================================

 

Genesis [2007 Remaster SACD Source]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR11 -0.00 dB -15.22 dB 01 Mama.aif

DR12 over -14.18 dB 02 That's All.aif

DR11 over -12.74 dB 03 Home by the Sea.aif

DR9 over -11.79 dB 04 Second Home by the Sea.aif

DR11 over -12.92 dB 05 Illegal Alien.aif

DR10 over -12.01 dB 06 Taking It All Too Hard.aif

DR10 over -12.13 dB 07 Just a Job to Do.aif

DR9 over -11.29 dB 08 Silver Rainbow.aif

DR10 -0.06 dB -12.48 dB 09 It's Gonna Get Better.aif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of files: 55

Official DR value: DR9

 

 

==============================================================================================

 

Invisible Touch [2007 Remaster SACD Source]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR10 over -11.01 dB 01 Invisible Touch.aif

DR8 over -10.78 dB 02 Tonight, Tonight, Tonight.aif

DR9 over -10.58 dB 03 Land of Confusion.aif

DR10 over -11.77 dB 04 In Too Deep.aif

DR10 over -10.99 dB 05 Anything She Does.aif

DR8 over -11.00 dB 06 Domino_ Part 1-In the Glow of the Night_Part 2-The Last Domino.aif

DR9 over -11.24 dB 07 Throwing It All Away.aif

DR9 over -11.91 dB 08 The Brazilian.aif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of files: 63

Official DR value: DR9

 

 

==============================================================================================

 

Nursery Cryme [2007 Remaster SACD Source]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR8 over -11.78 dB 01 The Musical Box.aif

DR11 -4.04 dB -17.58 dB 02 For Absent Friends.aif

DR9 over -11.93 dB 03 The Return of the Giant Hogweed.aif

DR9 over -13.12 dB 04 Seven Stones.aif

DR10 over -12.48 dB 05 Harold the Barrel.aif

DR10 -0.00 dB -14.68 dB 06 Harlequin.aif

DR8 over -11.44 dB 07 The Fountain of Salmacis.aif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of files: 70

Official DR value: DR9

 

 

==============================================================================================

 

Selling England by the Pound [2007 Remaster SACD Source]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR9 -0.00 dB -13.12 dB 01 Dancing with the Moonlit Knight.aif

DR9 -0.00 dB -11.57 dB 02 I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe).aif

DR9 over -12.35 dB 03 Firth of Fifth.aif

DR12 -0.04 dB -17.13 dB 04 More Fool Me.aif

DR10 over -12.60 dB 05 The Battle of Epping Forest.aif

DR10 -0.00 dB -14.08 dB 06 After the Ordeal.aif

DR8 over -11.47 dB 07 The Cinema Show.aif

DR12 -0.23 dB -16.74 dB 08 Aisle of Plenty.aif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of files: 78

Official DR value: DR9

 

 

==============================================================================================

 

The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway [2007 Remaster SACD Source]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR8 over -10.21 dB 1-01 The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.aif

DR7 -0.01 dB -10.47 dB 1-02 Fly On a Windshield.aif

DR9 -0.02 dB -12.08 dB 1-03 Broadway Melody of 1974.aif

DR9 -0.06 dB -12.20 dB 1-04 Cuckoo Cocoon.aif

DR7 over -9.65 dB 1-05 In the Cage.aif

DR8 -0.00 dB -11.46 dB 1-06 The Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging.aif

DR7 over -9.28 dB 1-07 Back In NYC.aif

DR8 -0.04 dB -12.46 dB 1-08 Hairless Heart.aif

DR8 over -9.69 dB 1-09 Counting Out Time.aif

DR7 -0.00 dB -10.64 dB 1-10 Carpet Crawlers.aif

DR8 -0.00 dB -11.60 dB 1-11 The Chamber Of 32 Doors.aif

DR8 over -10.26 dB 2-01 Lilywhite Lilith.aif

DR8 over -11.90 dB 2-02 The Waiting Room.aif

DR7 -0.02 dB -10.29 dB 2-03 Anyway.aif

DR8 -0.01 dB -10.96 dB 2-04 Here Comes the Supernatural Anaesthetist.aif

DR7 -0.00 dB -11.02 dB 2-05 The Lamia.aif

DR11 -0.17 dB -16.89 dB 2-06 Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats.aif

DR8 over -10.52 dB 2-07 The Colony of Slippermen (The Arrival_A Visit To the Doktor_Raven).aif

DR10 -1.93 dB -16.24 dB 2-08 Ravine.aif

DR7 -0.00 dB -9.33 dB 2-09 The Light Dies Down on Broadway.aif

DR7 over -9.99 dB 2-10 Riding the Scree.aif

DR7 -0.02 dB -11.52 dB 2-11 In the Rapids.aif

DR7 over -8.61 dB 2-12 It.aif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of files: 101

Official DR value: DR9

 

 

==============================================================================================

 

Trespass [2007 Remaster SACD Source]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR8 over -11.43 dB 01 Looking for Someone.aif

DR10 over -14.09 dB 02 White Mountain.aif

DR9 over -12.09 dB 03 Visions of Angels.aif

DR8 over -12.80 dB 04 Stagnation.aif

DR13 -0.01 dB -15.69 dB 05 Dusk.aif

DR8 over -10.83 dB 06 The Knife.aif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of files: 107

Official DR value: DR9

 

 

==============================================================================================

 

We Can't Dance [2007 Remaster SACD Source]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR9 over -11.43 dB 01 No Son of Mine.aif

DR9 over -10.70 dB 02 Jesus He Knows Me.aif

DR10 over -12.24 dB 03 Driving the Last Spike.aif

DR11 over -13.02 dB 04 I Can't Dance.aif

DR9 over -11.30 dB 05 Never a Time.aif

DR8 over -11.89 dB 06 Dreaming While You Sleep.aif

DR10 over -11.91 dB 07 Tell Me Why.aif

DR10 over -11.46 dB 08 Living Forever.aif

DR10 over -12.27 dB 09 Hold on My Heart.aif

DR10 over -12.06 dB 10 Way of the World.aif

DR8 -0.00 dB -9.89 dB 11 Since I Lost You.aif

DR9 over -12.50 dB 12 Fading Lights.aif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of files: 119

Official DR value: DR9

 

 

==============================================================================================

 

Wind & Wuthering [2007 Remaster SACD Source]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR8 over -10.18 dB 01 Eleventh Earl of Mar.aif

DR8 over -11.60 dB 02 One for the Vine.aif

DR9 -0.00 dB -12.41 dB 03 Your Own Special Way.aif

DR8 over -10.95 dB 04 Wot Gorilla_.aif

DR7 over -9.63 dB 05 All in a Mouse's Night.aif

DR9 over -12.94 dB 06 Blood on the Rooftops.aif

DR10 -1.64 dB -14.01 dB 07 Unquiet Slumbers for the Sleepers....aif

DR8 over -9.70 dB 08 ...In That Quiet Earth.aif

DR8 over -10.66 dB 09 Afterglow.aif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of files: 128

Official DR value: DR9

 

 

==============================================================================================

[Kal Rubinson]

Of course there are labels like Channel Classics, Pentatone and others who record in DSD and tell what they are doing.

 

Then rest is about how much into details one wants to go, is DSD-edited-in-DXD native enough or should it state separately that DXD was used for editing?

 

Then, I don't know, but I would like to know, how for example EMI sees things for the WYWH release...

I completely agree with you about disclosure.

 

But for many cases I've understood that it's about multichannel. Like the Genesis box sets I have where there's SACD and DVD (with DTS 96/24) included for each album. And similar thing for Dark Side Of The Moon SACD release. And same for BIS' releases. But maybe I'm wrong.

I am quite ignorant of these things and the provenance of multichannel releases of non-classical recordings.

[rodaguilera]

Well i think that's our duty as audiophiles to sift through these releases and try to clarify what is possible and the labels that produce this editions inform us better about what they deliver. Sometimes i think a good RedBook release i just what we need (no intention to enter into this discussion), but of course we have great DSD and 192khz. Digital HiRez is in its infancy, i think we are going to witness some turnarounds — let's just wait to see if the Sony DSD thing (dacs/streamers) is going to really happen. If so, i think it will be easier to find more tools(DAWS/editors) for us — audiophiles— to analyze this files and even rip SACDS in regular cd/dvd/bd drivers and not just in a Playstation solution. But for this Sony have to re-think it's licensing DSD thing.

[Miska]

Nursery Cryme [2007 Remaster SACD Source]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR8 over -11.78 dB 01 The Musical Box.aif

 

This is how the basic DTS stream looks like, I don't have software DTS 96/24 decoder for Linux, so I can only get the basic stream decoded (96/24 is implemented as extra data that encodes difference between basic and 96/24).

 

AFAIK the SACD layer is from the same 96/24 source.

 

[rodaguilera]

This is how the basic DTS stream looks like, I don't have software DTS 96/24 decoder for Linux, so I can only get the basic stream decoded (96/24 is implemented as extra data that encodes difference between basic and 96/24).

 

AFAIK the SACD layer is from the same 96/24 source.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]9100[/ATTACH]

 

Yeah i think so. The cd layer looks awful as well:

 

I'd rather go and find old pressings on ebay. And this box set was not cheap.

 

PS: I'm not an audacity expert. How do you get these red lines over the over peak parts?

 

regards

[rodaguilera]

Jazz at the Pawnshop [2006 30th Anniversary Box] is a great example of good cd layer from a SACD:

 

 

 

Jazz at the Pawnshop [2006 30th Anniversary Box]

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DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR14 -3.25 dB -21.30 dB 1-01 Limehouse Blues.aif

DR14 -6.27 dB -23.74 dB 1-02 I'm Confessin'.aif

DR14 -3.00 dB -19.37 dB 1-03 High Life.aif

DR16 -4.25 dB -25.86 dB 1-04 Jeep's Blues.aif

DR15 -4.78 dB -23.37 dB 1-05 Lady Be Good.aif

DR17 -0.54 dB -20.34 dB 1-06 Take Five.aif

DR15 -5.42 dB -23.76 dB 1-07 Everything Happens to Me.aif

DR16 -2.65 dB -21.39 dB 1-08 Barbados.aif

DR14 -5.31 dB -22.68 dB 1-09 Stuffy.aif

DR15 -4.77 dB -24.29 dB 2-01 Over The Rainbow.aif

DR15 -6.22 dB -24.00 dB 2-02 Now's The Time.aif

DR15 -5.74 dB -23.89 dB 2-03 Out of Nowhere.aif

DR14 -7.57 dB -23.92 dB 2-04 Take The -a- Train.aif

DR14 -7.30 dB -24.71 dB 2-05 Here is The Rainy Day.aif

DR16 -4.47 dB -22.79 dB 2-06 Struttin With Some Barbeque.aif

DR15 -7.64 dB -25.95 dB 2-07 Poor Butterfly.aif

DR15 -5.27 dB -24.30 dB 2-08 Exactly Like You.aif

DR14 -5.83 dB -22.71 dB 2-09 Jeepers Creepers.aif

DR12 -8.89 dB -24.06 dB 2-10 How High The Moon.aif

DR16 -4.91 dB -24.07 dB 2-11 Things Ain't What They Used to be.aif

DR15 -4.16 dB -22.77 dB 3-01 In a Mellow Tone.aif

DR16 -4.80 dB -24.78 dB (null)

DR18 -6.19 dB -28.09 dB 3-03 Nancy with the Laughing Face.aif

DR15 -5.50 dB -23.80 dB 3-04 Struttin' with Some Barbeque.aif

DR18 -2.55 dB -25.14 dB 3-05 It Don't Mean a Thing (If It Ain't Got That Swing).aif

DR14 -6.01 dB -23.35 dB 3-06 Mood Indigo.aif

DR17 -6.44 dB -27.99 dB 3-07 Jeep's Blues.aif

DR17 -2.64 dB -22.94 dB 3-08 High Life [Take 2].aif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of files: 28

Official DR value: DR15

 

 

==============================================================================================

[Boris75]

Original format: 44.1 kHz / 24-bit

 

 

 

So, why DSD? Just to justify 5.0 channels? I'm missing something here?

 

The founder of BIS records, who contributed to this forum under the nickname Bissie a couple of years ago, explained that in his view the main benefit of high res is to go for 24 bits rather than resolutions greater than 44.1kHz and that the main benefit of SACDs is to provide a multichannel layer. By the way, you can buy the original master files of all BIS records at comparatively low prices from eclassical.com, with one exception: for the small number of native DSD recordings made by BIS, eClassical does not sell the DSD master but a PCM conversion (in most cases to 44.1kHz 24bits).

[rodaguilera]

The founder of BIS records, who contributed to this forum under the nickname Bissie a couple of years ago, explained that in his view the main benefit of high res is to go for 24 bits rather than resolutions greater than 44.1kHz and that the main benefit of SACDs is to provide a multichannel layer. By the way, you can buy the original master files of all BIS records at comparatively low prices from eclassical.com, with one exception: for the small number of native DSD recordings made by BIS, eClassical does not sell the DSD master but a PCM conversion (in most cases to 44.1kHz 24bits).

 

Great to know and what we expected about. Anyway as i don't care about multichannel i bought Sharon Bezaly great works for flute and orchestra by BIS from Linn Records on 24bit/44khz.

[rodaguilera]

By the way i recommend this blog post by Teresa Goodwin: high resolution

 

Just an excerpt: "24 Bit versus 16 Bit

 

Just looking at the two numbers 16 and 24, one would assume that 24 bit would have 50% more resolution, but in reality this is not how it works. Bit depth refers to the number of bits you have to capture audio with. The easiest way to envision this is as a series of levels that audio energy can be sliced at any given moment in time. With 16 bit audio, there are 65,536 possible levels. With each single bit of greater resolution the number of levels doubles. By the time we get to 24 bit, we actually have 16,777,216 levels. That is quite large; 256 times as many levels is not 50% more!

 

 

The sample rate is the number of times audio is measured (sampled) per second. 44.1 kHz is sampled 44,100 times each second and 96kHz is sampled 96,000 times each second. The advantage of a high sample rate is not just extended frequency response but also faster transient response.

 

 

In PCM audio, it is felt by many that the bit rate is more important than the sample rate as the greatly increased number of numerical values means more resolution to resolve the intricate details in the music."

 

That clarify with fewer words a lot of things.

[ted_b]

The founder of BIS records, who contributed to this forum under the nickname Bissie a couple of years ago, explained that in his view the main benefit of high res is to go for 24 bits rather than resolutions greater than 44.1kHz and that the main benefit of SACDs is to provide a multichannel layer. By the way, you can buy the original master files of all BIS records at comparatively low prices from eclassical.com, with one exception: for the small number of native DSD recordings made by BIS, eClassical does not sell the DSD master but a PCM conversion (in most cases to 44.1kHz 24bits).

 

+1. Robert (Bissie) is a real deal, and his transaprency and provenance detail is refreshing. He did nine SACDs in DSD before he firgured the costs weren't worth it, and began recording in 24/44, then later a few 24/88 (I think) before settling on 24/96 lately. We can still buy his SACDs for multichannel content, but the elcassical site is clearly the way to go for his native original PCM. Even his 24/44 stuff is beautiful, in most cases (performance preferences notwithstanding, of course).

 

As has been mentioned here before, Jared (Channel Classics) is revamping his distribution of his music and getting set to launch NativeDSD dot com, a website dedicated to providing native DSD downlaods of the entire Channel catalog, along with other native DSD labels he is signing up (with a very fair "consortium-like" fee service). This would several lables that are quite congnizant of provenance and transparency for audiophiles seeking those recordings that are close, if not identical, to the "master tapes". This includes multichannel content, too, when available. I have to add that although I have no real financial link (volunteer) I am associated with NAtiveDSD dot com as a tech advisor/editor for the DSD metadata/tags.

 

In summary, although the big labels will likely never offer up accurate provenance (cuz they just don't know in most cases...the folks that know are gone, not employed by the label, or just too far away from the folks that distribute) we can make sure we support those boutique and private labels like BIS, Channel Classics, Blue Coast, Analogue Productions and others who allow us to make educated decisions on music we often already own in a lesser format.

[rodaguilera]

+1. Robert (Bissie) is a real deal, and his transaprency and provenance detail is refreshing. He did nine SACDs in DSD before he firgured the costs weren't worth it, and began recording in 24/44, then later a few 24/88 (I think) before settling on 24/96 lately. We can still buy his SACDs for multichannel content, but the elcassical site is clearly the way to go for his native original PCM. Even his 24/44 stuff is beautiful, in most cases (performance preferences notwithstanding, of course).

 

As has been mentioned here before, Jared (Channel Classics) is revamping his distribution of his music and getting set to launch NativeDSD dot com, a website dedicated to providing native DSD downlaods of the entire Channel catalog, along with other native DSD labels he is signing up (with a very fair "consortium-like" fee service). This would several lables that are quite congnizant of provenance and transparency for audiophiles seeking those recordings that are close, if not identical, to the "master tapes". This includes multichannel content, too, when available. I have to add that although I have no real financial link (volunteer) I am associated with NAtiveDSD dot com as a tech advisor/editor for the DSD metadata/tags.

 

In summary, although the big labels will likely never offer up accurate provenance (cuz they just don't know in most cases...the folks that know are gone, not employed by the label, or just too far away from the folks that distribute) we can make sure we support those boutique and private labels like BIS, Channel Classics, Blue Coast, Analogue Productions and others who allow us to make educated decisions on music we often already own in a lesser format.

 

Thanks for the contribution ted_b! Didn't know about this new website, very excited about this!

[Miska]

PS: I'm not an audacity expert. How do you get these red lines over the over peak parts?

 

In View-menu there's selection "Show clipping". It indicates clipping if there are multiple subsequent max sample values.

[rodaguilera]

In View-menu there's selection "Show clipping". It indicates clipping if there are multiple subsequent max sample values.

 

Thanks Miska! That easy!