Bach: St Matthew Passion (René Jacobs)

[Snowmonkey]

Has anyone purchased this new release? My go-to version is Philippe Herreweghe's second release (with Andreas Scholl), but from listening to the previews, this version compares very favourably. I have trouble comparing them. They are both so gorgeous, that whichever one I am listening to sounds like it can't be beaten. Anyone with more critical ears care to comment? The 24/96 version is much cheaper from Qobuz than from eClassical on this occasion (€24.99 vs $US42.80).

[Boris75]

I am too interested in views/impressions about this recording which I am considering to purchase. By the way, the liner notes on eClassical.com indicate that this was recorded in 24bit-96kHz, so these downloads seem to be the original master files whilst the SACD seems to be the result of a PCM to DSD conversion.

[Musicophile]

I still love my Dunedin consort version most (24/88 from Linn), but being a big fan of Rene Jacobs as well, I may be tempted to get this on too. I usually only listen to he passions during Easter season though, so I'll probably put off the purchase for a bit.

 

Next thing I'll be looking out for will rather be a nice highres Chrismas oratorio, to complement my go-to Gardiner and Herreweghe versions.

[Boris75]

I still love my Dunedin consort version most (24/88 from Linn), but being a big fan of Rene Jacobs as well, I may be tempted to get this on too. I usually only listen to he passions during Easter season though, so I'll probably put off the purchase for a bit.

 

Next thing I'll be looking out for will rather be a nice highres Chrismas oratorio, to complement my go-to Gardiner and Herreweghe versions.

 

Thanks for the recommendation. Seeing that the high-res files sold for download are 24bit/88.2kHz, I wonder whether the original master is PCM, in which case I'd buy the download, or DSD, in which case I'd get the SACD.

[Musicophile]

Thanks for the recommendation. Seeing that the high-res files sold for download are 24bit/88.2kHz, I wonder whether the original master is PCM, in which case I'd buy the download, or DSD, in which case I'd get the SACD.

The booklet doesn't specify, but given that the more recent John's passion from the same group (also excellent) is 24/192, and Linn's website claims the 24/88 to be the studio master, I'd at least tend to assume this is a native PCM recording. And I seem to remember Linn not being a big supporter of DSD. Maybe dropping a mail to Linnrecords.com would help.

[Boris75]

Maybe dropping a mail to Linnrecords.com would help.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I have e-mailed Linn; let's see what the reply is, and I'll buy based on it.

[Musicophile]

Thanks for the suggestion. I have e-mailed Linn; let's see what the reply is, and I'll buy based on it.

Just make sure you check the samples before. I really like it, but it is using a rather small ensemble for the vocals, which may not be to everybody's taste.

 

Also check out this review:

 

Linn Records - JS Bach Matthew Passion - Dunedin Consort - Gramophone

 

And I'm still tempted by the René Jacobs anyhow.

[Boris75]

Just make sure you check the samples before. I really like it, but it is using a rather small ensemble for the vocals, which may not be to everybody's taste.

 

Also check out this review:

 

Linn Records - JS Bach Matthew Passion - Dunedin Consort - Gramophone

 

And I'm still tempted by the René Jacobs anyhow.

 

Many thanks. I generally prefer large to small forces as you can guess from our on-going conversation on Beethoven's symphonies in another thread, but not always in Bach. And I am very disappointed by the "traditional, large" version of the St Matthew that I currently have (Riccardo Chailly's), so getting a polar opposite makes sense, especially given that I very much like the St John by the Dunedin Consort. So I'll get this one, but I want to get it as "unprocessed" as possible.

[accwai]

My go-to version is Philippe Herreweghe's second release (with Andreas Scholl), but from listening to the previews, this version compares very favourably. I have trouble comparing them. [...]

 

I had a quick compare between the Herreweghe and the new Jacobs last night. The Jacobs feels louder (more dynamic to be precise ). The total run time for the former is 2 hour 41 min while the latter is 2 hour 38 min according to eclassical. But the latter has two appendix tracks at the end which inflated the time by 6+ mins. Still the difference is not huge, but the pace of the latter feels much faster than the run time would suggest.

 

Also, the booklet goes to some length to talk about the original placement of Choir I and Choir II in the St Thomas church and how the effect is preserved in this recording by separating them front to back in the soundstage.

 

Overall, I think the new version is going for the dramatic effect. I can see how that can be appealing to many. But this is a very crowded space already. For me, the very idea of paying (the usual) premium price for yet another version of St Matthew Passion is not appealing at all, no matter how good it is...

 

Andy

[Boris75]

A very helpful Linn representative replied to me the following:

 

Linn Records workflow is to record edit and mix in PCM which we then transcode to DSD for the SACD version. We find this produces very satisfactory results, while it also means that our Studio Master files do not contain the large amounts of High Frequency noise inherent in DSD recording.

 

This means that the 24-bit/88.2kHz files for the J. Butt/Dunedin Consort recording of the St Matthew are one step closer to the performance than the SACD, so I'll get the downloads.

[Musicophile]

A very helpful Linn representative replied to me the following:

 

 

 

This means that the 24-bit/88.2kHz files for the J. Butt/Dunedin Consort recording of the St Matthew are one step closer to the performance than the SACD, so I'll get the downloads.

Thanks for sharing. So their content approach is consistent with their hardware policy:

 

Why DSD is a terrible idea in 2013

[Snowmonkey]

Next thing I'll be looking out for will rather be a nice highres Chrismas oratorio, to complement my go-to Gardiner and Herreweghe versions.

 

It's only 16 bit, but eClassical has made their Bach Collegium Japan performance of the Christmas Oratorio available for $US13, as part of their 40% off, 40th anniversary promotion. I know you're not a huge fan of their interpretation of the cantatas, but it might be worth checking it out.

eClassical - J.S. Bach - Christmas Oratorio, Weihnachts-Oratorium, BWV 248

[Musicophile]

It's only 16 bit, but eClassical has made their Bach Collegium Japan performance of the Christmas Oratorio available for $US13, as part of their 40% off, 40th anniversary promotion. I know you're not a huge fan of their interpretation of the cantatas, but it might be worth checking it out.

eClassical - J.S. Bach - Christmas Oratorio, Weihnachts-Oratorium, BWV 248

Actually, unfortunately, I have it already. And to be fair, my only real concern with Suzuki's Bach is the fact that sometimes it can be a bit "too perfect and clean", if you know what I mean. But thanks for flagging nevertheless.

 

Still hoping for a 24 bit release of something new. So far the only high-res I've seen is this one:

 

Johann Sebastian Bach : Christmas Oratorio | Johann Sebastian Bach par Stephen Layton – Télécharger et écouter l'album

 

And the snippets are not really tempting to me.

[Kal Rubinson]

Still hoping for a 24 bit release of something new. So far the only high-res I've seen is this one:

 

Johann Sebastian Bach : Christmas Oratorio | Johann Sebastian Bach par Stephen Layton*– Télécharger et écouter l'album

 

Here's a listing of some:

SA-CD.net - Search

[Musicophile]

Here's a listing of some:

SA-CD.net - Search

Thanks Kai, but without an SACD player or an old playstation at hand I guess won't be able to play those, until somebody releases them as highres download.

 

Well, it can only be a question of time.

[Snowmonkey]

deleted

[Boris75]

The French music magazine Classica selected Jacobs' version of the St Matthew as their disc of the month, but they say in the text that it has to be played in multichannel and is basically unlistenable in stereo.

 

This album should please DigiPete.

[Musicophile]

The French music magazine Classica selected Jacobs' version of the St Matthew as their disc of the month, but they say in the text that it has to be played in multichannel and is basically unlistenable in stereo.

 

This album should please DigiPete.

That's a pity, I had kind of earmarks it for future purchase.

 

Did anybody end up buying it?

[Boris75]

I understand René Jacobs' point that perhaps (probably?) the passion was originally played with two choirs facing each other, but what I don't understand is why the sound engineers did not mix tracks conventionally for the stereo layer and keep the unusual front-rear imaging for the multichannel layer.

[burnspbesq]

Next thing I'll be looking out for will rather be a nice highres Chrismas oratorio, to complement my go-to Gardiner and Herreweghe versions.

 

Right on cue:

 

Bach: Christmas Oratorio - CDA68031/2 - Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750) - Hyperion Records - MP3 and Lossless downloads

[Musicophile]

Right on cue:

 

Bach: Christmas Oratorio - CDA68031/2 - Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750) - Hyperion Records - MP3 and Lossless downloads

Yep that's the one I saw as well. It's actually cheaper at Qobuz. However, I'm still wondering whether the snippets I heard from Qobuz really convince me.

 

I'll probably end up buying it anyhow.

[Kal Rubinson]

The French music magazine Classica selected Jacobs' version of the St Matthew as their disc of the month, but they say in the text that it has to be played in multichannel and is basically unlistenable in stereo.

Really?

 

I never thought to try the stereo tracks. :-)

[Boris75]

Really?

 

 

Their piece is worded more diplomatically than my post: it is their disc of the month after all. Nonetheless, after decoding the euphemisms, their article really implied that they judged the stereo tracks to sound quite odd in stereo, and they recommended listening to this version in multichannel instead.

[Boris75]

By the way, the other French music magazine (Diapason) lambasts Jacobs' performance of the Matthaüs Passion, two stars out of 5 (actually out of six since there is the Diapason d'or above 5 stars). The reason for the low grade is not the quality of the playing, which they judge very good, but that Jacobs makes many choices that are not written explicitly in the score. So in the end, despite the low grade, it seems to be a very interesting version, though maybe not the right one for discovering this work.

 

About sonics, in the text, they say that the second choir sounds distant which they find frustrating in the five choruses where they alone sing, but they still rate the sound quality 4/5.