Which way to jump ... Apple or Windows

[RayBan]

I agree, I use a PC with XP and cMP2. I have even just completed a linear PS for the mobo to reduce RFI and ripple. It is used exclusively for music and was built for that purpose.

Many urged me to use a Mac mini "because" it was so much better but listening to Mac music turned me off.

 

Unfortunately, this forum has turned into basically an Apple owned marketing arm.

 

Chris has tried to be impartial but is overwhelmed by Apple/Mac/Amarra fans.

 

That's fine but it should be changed to Mac Computer Audiophile. It is a fine site for that purpose but I spend most of my time at AA as they present both technologies fairly without pushing either.

 

DIYAudio is another site with a different bent for the more adventurous.

 

Well, enough iTunes and Mac mini for me.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Wow, the cynics are out today :-)

 

I think you'll fond most people here are willing to use any platform that sounds great and doesn't require IT certification to use. Many CA readers have both platforms and have no vested interest by chosing either one. If there was a study released today that proved PCs sounded better and were just as easy to use I'm willing to bet most people here would make a switch in a heartbeat. Audiophile who love great music and great sound will do whatever it takes to satisfy this desire.

 

Please excuse the typos I'm on my iPhone.

 

[markr]

I chose to focus on Macs, because I was tired of the years of dealing with issues on Windows. I still use windows, and can playback my library of music on either platform. I can also produce music on either platform - producing music on a PC and then trying to integrate video into the equation just tore it for me - too many issues were added at that point for me to maintain sanity - and I decided to get a Mac. I now have two of them. I honestly dislike dealing with Windows issues. When Windows works properly though, I like using it. But that wasn't what I wanted to say here.

 

Time and time again I see Windows users here looking for help with this or that aspect of audio and even video. Time and time again, I see the same dedicated (and very respected) *few* who know about how to deal with current Windows issues and things audio respond in kind and try to help. What I don't see is the folks who help new 'Windows-and-audio users' numbers increasing much. I do see them come in and do a drive by "This is an Apple forum" or some such statement and never hear from them again. What we need at CA is more people who know about the Windows side of things. More importantly, we need those people to JOIN IN and help the newer folks looking for that help. Where are you?

 

The Mac side is well represented here for sure, but where are you new 'win-gurus'? No one is bashing your choice of OS, no one is bashing YOU. Are you afraid of getting cooties or something?

 

It is only natural that if the majority of the ones who *participate* on a forum are of a Mac bent, then the forum will look like a Mac forum. There is a way to fix that, but you don't seem willing to do the work. Am I wrong?

 

... stepping off of soapbox now .....

- markr

 

 

 

 

[hifitubes]

Well put, and I hope my comments are taken as positive because I agree; I feel the discussion needs to be more indepth. We can not simply reduce this major platform decision to a few variables even if some shall be weighted greater than others. People need solutions that work. It should be a purely utilitarian process which both sides can contribute to.

 

warm regards,

hifitubes

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Agreed. We will really make progress with everyone contributing and listening reading.

 

What about a couple new articles in the Computer Audiophile Academy. One for pros and cons of Apple based systems and the other for Pros and cons of Microsoft based systems? I think it would be a great place to attempt to create a definitive source for people to find all the info needed instead of bits and pieces here and there.

 

Do you guys see value in this?

 

[Wavelength]

Gang,

 

What I want is for people who really know the difference to participate in discussions like this.

 

I must get 30 calls a week from customers or people confused by what they read in these forums.

 

Look if you don't know or have never used a product, computer, os then don't comment. Your wasting the bandwidth for the rest of us.

 

Thanks

Gordon

 

[markr]

You must just cringe when you see some of the posts that show up. I know that I've made some that make me wish I hadn't posted.

 

Chris: Yes! I think that anything that will centralize vital information would be of great help to folks that just come here looking for an answer. Just thinking about it now, it seems that it will be much easier said than done though. .... that reminds me of an old song ....

 

- markr

 

[BEEMB]

 

Chris - sounds like a great idea.

 

Gordon - you're right that people with experience of both systems are in a better position to post comments. But the deeper you delve into computer audio the more people disagree and the more it's clear that the real lack of knowledge hangs at the computer software (OS or media player) stage. It'd be great to have more input from programmers, not the audio engineers; you can all do wonderful jobs with a bit perfect digital stream and built great DACs, but none of you know the difference between how Wavelab and Foobar play back an audio file...

 

[BEEMB]

 

And add some bright red arrows all the way along the top of the site to the bit saying "computer audiophile academy" just incase people don't notice it... ;-)

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

hi Matt - I'm guessing the CA Academy logo in the upper right corner of every page isn't enough.

 

May be I need to add a ticking sound to the logo that only goes away if someone clicks on the Academy logo. Only kidding :~)

 

[BobH]

Apple Mac.

Pros - 1. Made by Apple 2. iTunes

Cons - 1. Priced by Apple 2. Have to use iTunes

 

PC

Pros - 1. Not Priced by Apple. 2. Don't need iTunes

Cons - 1. Not made by Apple 2. Doesn't like iTunes

 

Set-Up tips for both PC's and Mac's

1. Don't use any computer-based volume controls.

2. See 1.

 

Not very complicated, I know, but that is about everything important anyone new to computer music servers needs to know about which computer to buy and software/OS to use. I'm with Matt on this one, until someone comes up with something that doesn't read as though it came straight from the pages of ..(insert your favourite hi-fi publication) I'll continue to make up my own mind about claims of sound differences between computers.

 

After all, the only difference between a Mac and a PC is the OS and the only proven difference between software programs is the user interface and the price. If a user believes that the OS can make a difference to what they hear then they will already know enough not to have to ask, apparently, irritating questions.

 

The majority of audiophiles would be much better served paying attention to their speakers, and the rooms they are in, as worrying about their OS's. A quick look at this forum's thread counts will quickly tell you why people are confused. We concentrate on trivia because it is cheap, keeps us occupied and we can wile away the nights chatting about stuff with like minded people - not because it really matters!

 

Well, you did ask!

 

Rant over.

 

[BEEMB]

 

"...only goes away if someone clicks on the Academy logo" ...

it would be sooo very funny !!

 

[BEEMB]

Bob,

 

I always enjoy your posts and again I like your way of thinking.

 

I agree that money can be better spent on speakers and amplifiers rather than worrying so much about OS.

 

Playback software - "the only proven difference is the interface" - - - just so sums up all my thoughts.

 

But hopefully you won't mind me mentioning Amarra's price every now and then - my aim being that they'll eventually prove it's worth spending your hard earned on that instead of a nice pair of speakers....

[BEEMB]

 

Just to correct myself above - it doesnt sum up ALL my thoughts as that would indicate that I only think about computer audio.

 

I have other thoughts too. Mainly women; with whom there are proven differences with both their output and user interface.

 

[BobH]

Was there not also a link between women and Apples? Not a coincidence, surely?

 

The price of Amarra, along with an awful lot of 'boutique' hi-fi, is a very pertinent issue. Personally I don't worry about what I can't afford, or what I will not spend money on. My objection is always the hi-ends' tendency to equate quality with price. Where this 'quality' is shrouded in mystery, half-truths and obfuscation it becomes even more objectionable. This leaves newcomers with the feeling that unless they are prepared to 'spend it like Beckham' then they will be left with an inferior sound. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

This weekend I had the good fortune to be able to listen to a Tact room correction box, plugged into a very revealing system. If anyone here has got $5000 burning a hole in their pockets then go out and listen to one. Not only will this box of tricks knock the socks off most, if not all, dacs out there, it will also correct the frequency deficiencies of the room you are listening to it in. What you get left with is something you've probably never heard before, which is a flat frequency response. It is unnerving! And it is also the best use of $5000 I can think of, barring the speakers themselves. This is probably the least 'audiophile' box for an audiophile to buy, it being a deliberate digital manipulation of the sound - a bit like using the volume control in Cry-Tunes. But never mind all the endless discussions about 'bit perfect' and 'jitter twitter ' - buy one of these and hear it as the producer heard it. Awesome!

 

[hifitubes]

Wait a second, $5K for a room correction device?

 

If we're using PCs as sources, just apply EQ in the 32bit realm with a VST plug-in; not sure if iTunes will let you do anything of the sort though, but J. River will. Nobody seems willing to accept the fact that you're losing minimal bits with something like this or an internal 32bit volume control when using replay gain that is digital lopping off 6 - 12 decibels. I can't hear a difference but it seems "bit perfect" has become canon. We have these tools at our disposal, designed as such for us to utilize wisely.

 

Buy an ECM8000 and analyze the room with this free software.

 

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/11707-room-eq-wizard-rew-information-index-links-guides-articles-stickies-please-read.html#post103867

 

I've been told by numerous audiophiles this still doesn't have any affect; move the mic around (on a stand) very subtly and you'll see massive changes in freq. response. Unfortunately I sold my ECM8000 when I was in dire straights before I could see for myself. I'm sure one could iron out obvious deficiencies this way, who knows though.

 

Start at the source rather than add yet another device in the signal chain....logical? Then again, not everyone knows how to use their Mac or PC to achieve this, thus people still buy CD transports.

 

hifitubes

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Room correction done well is absolutely fabulous. Whether software on a PC or a hardware device does the trick best (or equal) I really don't know. I am very enthusiastic about the future of high end audio because I believe it will be full of great room correction devices (and digital cross-overs)(and really nice active loudspeakers)(and ....).

 

[usernaim250]

It seems that no one mentioned the forthcoming Naim Uniti, which is due next month and is a streamer, Dac, cd player, and integrated amplifier. I'm sure it's a step down from the marvelous 250.2 as an amp, but will maintain the house sound, and probably net you enough cash to pay for the computer. On the Naim forum people seem well pleased with the Mac/Dac combination, so I'd go that route in OP's shoes. For a bit more money, the SuperNait is another option, but you would give up the streaming and have to use an S/PDIF link.

 

[JohnMak]

Just got back onshore and read all the responses to my question ..... WOW. I am surprised it generated so much information - really useful info to someone like myself just starting down the HDD based music road.

 

For what it's worth, I have met a fellow here in Vietnam who says I don't have any choice and will have to go Windows. This is because I want the coffee shop system to have a Touch Screen Juke-Box style interface so customers can select their own tunes. (Its a Touch Screen which fits over the monitor)

 

My friend uses this system in his Bar. It's called Touch Tone and is a great setup which allows his customers to choose what they want to hear. It stacks up the selections on a first entered / first played basis. Pretty nice. Sadly he, advises me it doesn't work with Apple OS.

 

Nevertheless I really thank everyone for all the great information shared here.

 

 

 

[BobH]

As I said, I considered myself lucky to have had a chance to play with the Tact box, 'lucky' because it's way out of my price league as a new item and they don't appear second hand very often. It was the first time I'd been exposed to room correction and what it can achieve and, needless to say, I was most impressed. This is not an area I've looked at before but I'll be looking a lot closer now, starting with the REW software!

 

It all looks very interesting, thanks for the heads up. And I'm sure it will be much more rewarding than worrying about whether the warp coils in my OS are misaligned, causing the mail to arrive late!

 

[BobH]

I am very enthusiastic about the future of high end audio because I believe it will be full of great room correction devices (and digital cross-overs)(and really nice active loudspeakers)(and ....).

 

Not sure I got this, couldn't make up my mind whether or not you were being sarcastic or you know of some good work being done in these areas?

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Bob - I hate to comment further because some readers have found these types of statements pretentious. The reality is that I try to share as much as I possibly can with everyone. Some times that means leaving out many identifying details :-(

 

[BobH]

I shall look forward, then. Personally, I quite like the little teasers but, there you go, can't please 'em all. :~)

 

[laurent]

Hi Chris,

 

I have to say that I perfectly agree with you concerning the future of digital audio and the fact that room corrections systems and active speakers will become more and more popular and consumer friendly even though my current setup is with passive speakers and no room correction.

As far as room correction system is concerned, have you tried any PC software?

 

Laurent

 

Ps : Having heard what a velodyne digital drive subwoofer can do in a room with a good manual set up, I am now convinced that room correction (and room set up) is very important.

 

[PeterSt]

Are we now going to talk seriously about serious indications that some might think room correction flaws seriously, or what ?

 

:-)

 

Personally I never saw it working, but then you won't find me on a sweet spot. I'm from a leage that thinks music can sound good from whereever you are in the room (two speakers only).

 

Standing waves and things are not to be removed by PEQs and stuff; they are removed by good playback means.

I have the gear, catching dust in the garage.

 

The room is part of the playback.

 

FWIW, I was serious.

Peter