To DSD or not to DSD?

[Miska]

Does recording via DoP make sevse to anyone? This works? PS Audio recording as DoP .wav? Then burning to DVD...

 

Recording DSD, playing back over PWT - PS Audio Discussion Forum

 

It works as a hack for recording software that doesn't understand DSD natively. But I would rather use software that understands DSD natively and can write it to DSDIFF or DSF file along with giving options for waveform view and editing. Otherwise it is too easy to destroy the DSD content with software that believes it is PCM.

[bibo01]

About 1 week ago, I visited Professor Yamazaki of Waseda University in Tokyo. He is said to be a person who proposed 1 bit Audio technology to SONY at the beginning.　(By the way, he does not like the naming "DSD(Direct Stream Digital)" by SONY. His interpretation is that "DSD" stands for "Delta-Sigma Direct" or something like that.)

 

He said Paganini's Violin Solo recording of 11.3 MHz sampling, which is downloadable from 1 Bit Consortium Web page, was recorded by him with his proprietary recorder of 2nd order delta-sigma modulation. Kristof Brarati played the piece with his Stradivarius at the Stradivari Society in Chicago.

He added that other recordings of 2.8 MHz or 5.6 MHz available on the web site were recorded by recorders with commercial ADC chips of 5th or 6th orders.

 

By the way, I will demonstrate a play of the recording of 11.3 MHz sampling at "1 Bit Audio Research Meeting" held at Waseda University on December 20th. Is there any other sources of 11.3 MHz sampling which is available to audiophiles like me?

I downloaded the Barati files you mention above:

"Stradivari violin of Society (Christoph Bharati)" Nagano Momoko, Oba Haruko: [WSD file (11.3MHz, 2ch, 967MByte)]

 

How do you play it or convert to DFF/DSF? Audiogate accepts only DSD64 or 128.

[Bunpei]

How do you play it or convert to DFF/DSF? Audiogate accepts only DSD64 or 128.

 

The file is of WSD format that lacks WSD header and has a bunch of meaningless zero values before and after music data.

I removed the zero data using a generic binary file editor and handcrafted a header part with appropriate data of a sampling rate, 5.6 MHz. Then I converted it to a DSDIFF format with the help of Korg AudioGate. At last, the sampling rate field of the resultant DSDIFF file was replaced with a correct value of 11.3 MHz with a small piece of perl program.

 

If you want to get the converted file, please drop me an ordinary e-mail;

bunpei < at > ta2 < dot > so-net < dot > ne < dot > jp

[bibo01]

The file is of WSD format that lacks WSD header and has a bunch of meaningless zero values before and after music data.

I removed the zero data using a generic binary file editor and handcrafted a header part with appropriate data of a sampling rate, 5.6 MHz. Then I converted it to a DSDIFF format with the help of Korg AudioGate. At last, the sampling rate field of the resultant DSDIFF file was replaced with a correct value of 11.3 MHz with a small piece of perl program.

 

If you want to get the converted file, please drop me an ordinary e-mail;

bunpei < at > ta2 < dot > so-net < dot > ne < dot > jp

Can you please make this file available by putting it somewhere?

Perhaps you can contact me privately...

[Bunpei]

Can you please make this file available by putting it somewhere?

Perhaps you can contact me privately...

 

Would you please send me your e-mail first? I will send a Dropbox link to the address on your e-mail.

[bibo01]

Would you please send me your e-mail first? I will send a Dropbox link to the address on your e-mail.

Thanks. You have PM

[Bunpei]

In Kal Rubinson's　Stereophile review of the exaSound e28 Multichannel DAC on their web site at

Music in the Round #63 Page 2 | Stereophile.com

he described the 11.3 MHz 1 bit source as;

 

"... But the piäce de résistance was a stereo DSD256 (11.2896MHz!) of a Paganini violin solo made by the 1-bit Audio Consortium, a Japanese group promoting 1-bit recording at very high resolutions. I hate to use the overworked palpability, but I can't think of any other word that so well describes the effect. ..."

 

Does the foreign wording, "piäce de résistance" express something positive in the context?

[Audio_ELF]

Obligatory Wikipedia / Google result quotes...

Pièce de résistance (French pronunciation: ​[pjɛs də ʁezistɑ̃s]) is a French term (circa 1839), also called plat de résistance in France, translated into English literally as "piece of (or for) resistance," referring to the best part or feature of something (as in a meal), a showpiece, or highlight. It can be thought of as the portion of a creation that defies (i.e. "resists") orthodox or common conventions and practices, thereby making the whole of the creation unique and special. The phrase gives the sense that the referred-to element is the most outstanding, notable, or defining of the collection.

[ted_b]

In Kal Rubinson's　Stereophile review of the exaSound e28 Multichannel DAC on their web site at

Music in the Round #63 Page 2 | Stereophile.com

he described the 11.3 MHz 1 bit source as;

 

"... But the piäce de résistance was a stereo DSD256 (11.2896MHz!) of a Paganini violin solo made by the 1-bit Audio Consortium, a Japanese group promoting 1-bit recording at very high resolutions. I hate to use the overworked palpability, but I can't think of any other word that so well describes the effect. ..."

 

Does the foreign wording, "piäce de résistance" express something positive in the context?

 

Yes, as with Eloise's definition, the DSD256 violin recording is indeed a highlight or showpiece, albeit a bit over the top. The high frequency delicacy that shines through, both in the E20 and E28, is amazing, really.

[Bunpei]

Hi, Audio_ELF and ted_b!

 

I was much pleased with your explanations.

Thank you very much!

 

Bunpei

[Bunpei]

[stereo play] PCM up to 384kHz/24 bit WAV, DSD up to 22.6MHz (DSD512) DSDIFF

 

I received ElectrArt UDA2 board and tried playing DSD256 and DSD512 sources.

DAC used for this experiment was ONKYO DAC-1000 ( TI/BB PCM-1795 Dual Mono).

I could play those sources without problem.

I thought sound quality in this experiment was better than that I got in exaU2I board case or plain Amanero Combo384 case.

[bmoura]

I received ElectrArt UDA2 board and tried playing DSD256 and DSD512 sources.

DAC used for this experiment was ONKYO DAC-1000 ( TI/BB PCM-1795 Dual Mono).

I could play those sources without problem.

I thought sound quality in this experiment was better than that I got in exaU2I board case or plain Amanero Combo384 case.

 

Are there DSD512 recordings out there ?

[Miska]

Are there DSD512 recordings out there ?

 

It is useful for example for upsampling from PCM. Also if you want to do any processing on lower rate DSD it provides plenty of extra headroom for digital volume control and DRC.

[Bunpei]

Are there DSD512 recordings out there ?

 

No.

I converted 2L DXD sources ( 44.1 x 8 kHz ) into 22.6 ( 2.8 x 8 ) MHz 1 bit using SONY DSD Direct and KORG AudioGate program beforehand.

[joaco_]

hello every one ... ive been reading this thread for a while ... Ive been experimenting with DSD . Im from Chile , have builded some DACs using the fn1242A , will be familiar to bunpei I guess . I use it because its very versatil , can format the pins easy for i2s also , I use ExD board , will be very pleased to share my impressions here ... Bunpei , im trying to give a try to the 11.3mhz file , if youre so kind can you share the file with me , ill drop you a pm with my mail ...

[Bunpei]

This ADC board uses ARDA AT1201 chips.

 

New AD8D and AD8DP Mic/Line Input Cards For Horus

[wdt]

Hi all, infrequent poster here."Since DXD and DSD playback is only supported via USB, I'd say it makes good sense to go USB." I pulled this off the Teac review, is this true? I am running a Baetis server with Jriver 18 going into a Theta 24/96 DAC via BNC spdif and am always researching a DAC upgrade. I want to maintain that output method from the server. The DSD momentum has got me holding off. I have been on the edge of getting a Berkeley Alpha for a while now. I think I am glad I waited based on what I am seeing with decreasing pricing and increasing sq, always a good thing. any comments to the usb only question is appreciated.

[Bunpei]

Recently a person who tried Paganini's violin solo DSD256 source told me the file can't be played on HQPlayer while JRiver accepts it. I found that two data length values in chunk headers of the DSDIFF were incorrect and I corrected them.

If any of you have the problem with your HQPlayer, please request me a new link. I'd like to express my gratitude to bibo01 and Miska.

 

By the way, I got no feedback on sound quality from those whom I sent a link so far.

[Bunpei]

"TonyF" started such a thread on gearslutz,

 

Quad rate DSD - Gearslutz.com

 

"We had a lot of fun last weekend recording a piano recital in three parallel formats. 96k, 192k and quad-rate DSD (11.2MHz sampling rate). ... "

[Maldur]

By the way, I got no feedback on sound quality from those whom I sent a link so far.

 

 

I still waiting a new Amanero board from Domenico, so there is no point to downconvert to ordinary DSD64, unless I want to listen it via SACD player.

Maybe after week or so I get new board I hope.

[Bunpei]

I still waiting a new Amanero board from Domenico, so there is no point to downconvert to ordinary DSD64, unless I want to listen it via SACD player.

Maybe after week or so I get new board I hope.

 

I hope you will be able to play the file with Amanero and your DAC without problems. In diyAudio Forum, some people have been discussing their mods for Amanero to get a better performance.

[Bunpei]

Attached are FFT spectra observed in the Paganini source of 1 Bit Consortium, 11.3 MHz sampling rate.

(The 11.3 MHz 1bit delta-sigma modulated digital data was converted to PCM 176.4 kHz/24 bit by using Korg AudioGate. The FFT spectra were obtained by using WaveSpectra program. Each spectrum covers ~88.2 kHz. )

 

First, you can find a flat basin floor of quantization noises below 88.2 kHz in the first graph.

In the second graph, there are many harmonics peaks.

I am not sure that so many peaks in the third graph include no artifacts or not.

Does anyone have any idea on the third graph?

 

[Miska]

Bunpei,

 

Spectrograms would be easier to interpret, especially when it comes to artifacts.

[Bunpei]

To Miska,

 

Thank you very much for your suggestion!

 

A spectrogram that corresponds to the third FFT spectrum is;

 

The part is likely to be something abnormal.

 

Bunpei

[Miska]

A spectrogram that corresponds to the third FFT spectrum is;

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]9208[/ATTACH]

The part is likely to be something abnormal.

 

The middle one looks very extended indeed, looks like clipping... Level looks quite high, did you convert this to PCM with 6 dB gain? I would suggest redoing the PCM conversion without extra gain.

 

Is this recorded with Sanken CO-100K or something similar?