Help choosing the best near field monitors for ME

[Mallard612]

Hello computer audiophile,

 

I'm looking for some help. I have always considered myself to be an "audiophile" and have auditioned many speakers and components from the low end to extremely high end over the years. However, I have never owned my own place or had a room large enough to dedicate to floor standing speakers so I turned to headphones/IEM's. I enjoy good low bass response but nothing too boomy. I thoroughly enjoy my Beyers DT880's and Triple Hi-Fi's but have always looked for more low end response. I own many of the best "bass" IEM's but I always turn back to my Beyers or Triple Hi-Fi's as the mids and highs don't exist or sound awful. I want the smile you get when an explosion occurs while still having clear and crisp mids and highs.

 

How does this get me to computer audiophile? Well I am building out my new office, which includes creating a new gigabit network based on FIOS to accommodate gaming (PS3/PS4, Xbox, computer) as well as typical office related needs and MANY MANY mobile devices (this is very much another discussion on network build). This will also include a HTPC used to stream music and movies throughout the apartment (mostly on the main computer, tablets and eventually the living room TV. Thinking the Ouya might be my friend in this department:) ). Because of my desire to have and enjoy the best music possible, I started looking into desktop speakers, which lead me to near field monitors, which lead me here. And this has led me to asking for your assistance. I have the unfortunate desire to have the BEST product that delivers the BEST value.

 

I have narrowed down my parameters based on reviews to the KEF X300A as well as the LS50. There is a big difference in price and overall build design for each set of speakers. I don't know that money spent on the LS50 would be better split to say buy the X300A and get a set of floor standing speakers for the TV instead. This is where I truly need your help. Based on my preferences for sound where should I look? I have seen active monitor suggestions for Emotiva, Focal, Dynaudio, Audioengine, KEF, Paradigm, M-Audio, and a few others. What I haven't seen are full system setups used to make these systems happen. I want to be able to do an analysis on the value achieved with a particular setup for my office (where I spend the majority of my time) or splitting the funds between the office and living room (living room would be no more than a 2.1 setup). If I had to put a full price tag on a setup, it would be around $2,500 - $3,000 for the main components. How would you setup the LS50's purely as a desktop speaker? This could also mean getting the LS50's (Stands needed as well) but the components would need to scale to accommodate my needs.

 

If you had to start from scratch, would you dump everything into a desktop system? Or spend less for something like the KEF X300A and get something else for the living room connected on the same network? I don't have any particular reason of using the KEF monitors other than design and reviews. I have read and looked at a bunch of suggestions but some are just ugly. So I really want something that holds it's own as a furniture/conversation piece as well being functional (I can spend a few grand on artwork for the walls or I can spend the same to buy artwork that happens to produce amazing sounds. Sounds like a win win to me). So if Focal or B&W is a better option, please point me in that direction. The living room btw is a nice to have while the desktop setup is the root and I will absolutely be purchasing a setup. I realize, no one is going to tell me, this is the perfect setup for what I'm looking for but guidelines to point me would be greatly appreciated.

 

So the questions I'm looking to have answered are what speakers I should look at, system components (amps, receivers, cables, etc) desktop computer stands, bookshelf computer stands, any considerations or advance learned from a previous builds, floor standing models and some thoughts on how to split my money to achieve the greatest results to my ears.

 

 

Thank you in advance,

 

Matt

[ForkInBrain]

I enjoy good low bass response but nothing too boomy. I thoroughly enjoy my Beyers DT888s and Triple Hi-Fi's but have always looked for more low end response. I own many of the best "bass" IEM's but I always turn back to my Beyers or Triple Hi-Fi's as the mids and highs don't exist or sound awful.

 

From my experience setting up a 2.0 music/HT system for the living room and then a headphone system for work, I can only say:

 

Compared to headphones, speaker choices are harder because of room effects. No online review can predict what will work in your room, especially for low bass. You will learn a lot by taking stuff home and trying it out. You may save money by buying from stores with great return policies. In a few cases it took me a few weeks to figure out what was missing from a speaker.

 

The speaker matters most, then source, then DAC/amp. I personally spent a lot of time dissatisfied with the speakers I was trying out before I doubled my budget and got B&W PM1 (not for near field). For my case, going with great speakers and average components (eg lower and Denon AVR), finally made the system click.

 

There is no internet forum or spreadsheet in the world that can tell you how to maximize your value here. There are too many unkowns and subjective factors, and it takes time to figure out if something works for you.

 

If I were you, I'd buy both the KEFs and plan on returning one. You may love both and return the expensive one, or you may hear a difference worth paying for.

[spdif-usb]

I added the Emotiva Pro Airmotiv 5 monitors to my setup last week (please visit my profile page to see the details). They are a truly magnificent sounding nearfield solution IMO and, if that weren't enough already, they even blend in remarkably with my Cantons as well.

[mav52]

I added the Emotiva Pro Airmotiv 5 monitors to my setup last week (please visit my profile page to see the details). They are a truly magnificent sounding nearfield solution IMO and, if that weren't enough already, they even blend in remarkably with my Cantons as well.

You been harping about these monitors so I ordered the Airmotiv 4's. The 5's a little to big for the desk area.

[wgb113]

Matt,

 

ForkInBrain hit it on the head when discussing THE most important factor...your room. Moving from very nice headphone setups to speakers is a big step. The fact that you're looking at near-field monitors will get you closer to the level of detail you're used to with headphones but the quality of bass you'll get is determined by your room/speaker interaction.

 

I've been able to tame the bass issues in my room with careful placement of speakers, listening chair, and acoustic treatments but it's still lumpy due to the physical size of my rooms and the modes it generates. That said, I've recently moved my monitors off of the desk and onto stands, further into the room, to find a better balance between soundstage (one area even average speakers trounce the best headphones) and bass smoothness.

 

The LS50s will require amplification and a DAC so a setup based around them is easily 2x and possibly 4-5x the cost of the X300A. I'm not sure you could get it done with the LS50s taking up half of your budget, and from what I've read, being somewhat picky in terms of amplification. KEF demos them at their headquarters with an Arcam FMJ A38 integrated that clocks in @ $2400 by itself. They've been demoing at shows with Parasound separates which are even more expensive than that. That doesn't leave much room in the budget for a DAC that's up-to-snuff. Sure, you could get away with a sub-$500 DAC but it would be the definite weak-spot in the setup.

 

If the Office will be the main rig though I'm not sure you'd be satisfied with the X300A in the long run, it's internal DAC being the biggest limitation.

 

I think you need to plan on treating the room and factoring in the costs of treatments, even if you're going the DIY route, and perhaps reconsidering other monitors. One thing nice about active monitors is that most provide compensation for the bounce you get off of the desktop in the form of a parametric EQ. The LS50s wouldn't have a feature like that.

 

Good luck! Keep us posted on how things progress.

 

Bill

[spdif-usb]

You been harping about these monitors so I ordered the Airmotiv 4's. The 5's a little to big for the desk area.

You will love them!

[john57]

I just received my Airmotiv6 two weeks ago. Great!!!

[christopher3393]

You might find this worth a read: Dazzle your ears with KEF's X300A powered speakers | The Audiophiliac - CNET News

 

I didn't personally care for the Airmotiv 6. Tried it with several DACs. Found the ribbon tweeter a little too hard-edged for my ears. The Focal cms 50 fared much better, especially when paired with the Peachtree iDac. Even streaming music from MOG and Spotify sounded very good with this setup, redbook rips and downloads even better.This was a smooth combination that still had a lot of detail. And it is within your budget. Good luck. If I had an amp, I'd try the KEF LS50s.

[john57]

I did not find the Airmotiv6 too hard edged in the treble nor may I say, harsh at all. I had 5 pairs of monitors in past and while I prefer soft domes over metal domes there are still some issues I have with soft domes tweeters. I also had many fine full size floor speakers in the past Ohm F’s,Thiel 3.5’s, Maggies and the Sound Labs Electrostatics. With the Tannoy’s I have to use the treble cut since the tweeter is too harsh at certain frequencies.Even with the Equator D5 which is a bit mellower than the Airmotiv6 I still find the D5 treble harsh and a bit beaming at certain frequencies. The treble on the Airmotiv6 has a great sense of space and the speaker as a whole has sense of forward and rear depth of space in the recordings. One of the key issues I have with some recordings especially with older classical recordings is the tendency to sound soft or muffled or the “pillow effect” as the word I would use. When I go to a live unamplified classical concert as an example, I notice how crisp, clear and sharp the midrange and treble sounds are. The dynamic sense of midrange and treble space is missing in the playback of many recordings. I also find many monitor or speakers tend to be too sluggish sounding in the mid bass. While the Airmotiv6 does not have the “tightest” bass it is quite good, far better than the EquatorD5. This does not mean that all concerts that I go to have the best “detail” of sounds as compared to recordings done in the same hall. With the Airmotiv6 I find the treble to have great horizontal coverage without the beaming effect of dome tweeters. I do not toe in my Airmotiv6 and I am sitting closely at 2 meters which works very well for my needs. I find that the Airmotiv6 gives some of the best realism reproduction of piano, harps, harpsichord, guitar and the like. I have a five year transferable warranty as well but I am going to keep them for a long time. I used to have three pairs of Stax headphones and the Airmotiv6 comes close to the detail retrieval of the Stax and far easier to setup as compared to my big Sound Labs Electrostatics.

With speakers that have greater resolution more careful component matching is required. I find great variation of balanced DAC’s that I have tried and sometimes the single ended outputs has better SQ than the balanced outputs on the same DAC. I had four balanced DAC’s at one time and they were crap until I use the ESI Juil@ card. I have a customsoundproofed computer case with a Juli@ sound card with the balanced outputs driving the fully balanced Little Dot VI+ class A push pull tube amp using the Bendix graphite tubes driving the Airmotiv6.

I have not heard any of the Focal monitors with the inverted domes and I cannot comment on them. I still use my Equator D5 for mixing that translates well on other user systems. I do like the Kef speakers as well and almost got them but the Airmotiv6 has great power and less of the "horn effect" of the Kef's.

[spdif-usb]

Nice review! Metal dome tweeters are not my bucket of tea, either. Personally, I, prefer the ceramic dome tweeters of my Cantons, even though the AMT (Air Motion Transformer) tweeters of the Emotiva Pros are a surprisingly close match IMO. There is no top end edginess at all, and the frequency response curve is beautifully linear just the way I like it. However, on top of this, to my ears these powered studio monitors do not suffer from being too clinical. They truly are very musical and IMO they sound best with the low point of their tweeters aimed directly at the ears. I have placed my Airmotiv 5s on stands and I am sitting at only about 2.5 ft distance from them. The bass is punchy and detailed, as well as really powerful, just not as deeply extended as what you'd get from a good pair of large floorstanding speakers such as my Cantons. By adding a separate subwoofer, the problem can be very easily solved IMO. If using the Airmotivs as surround speakers in a "hybrid" (stereo / home theater) setup, which is how I use them, with a parametric EQ as remarkably excellent as that of the Emotiva UMC-200, at medium-high listening levels you might even get away with using the bass extension of your powerful front mains as a "phantom" subwoofer.

I did not find the Airmotiv6 too hard edged in the treble nor may I say, harsh at all. I had 5 pairs of monitors in past and while I prefer soft domes over metal domes there are still some issues I have with soft domes tweeters. I also had many fine full size floor speakers in the past Ohm F’s,Thiel 3.5’s, Maggies and the Sound Labs Electrostatics. With the Tannoy’s I have to use the treble cut since the tweeter is too harsh at certain frequencies.Even with the Equator D5 which is a bit mellower than the Airmotiv6 I still find the D5 treble harsh and a bit beaming at certain frequencies. The treble on the Airmotiv6 has a great sense of space and the speaker as a whole has sense of forward and rear depth of space in the recordings. One of the key issues I have with some recordings especially with older classical recordings is the tendency to sound soft or muffled or the “pillow effect” as the word I would use. When I go to a live unamplified classical concert as an example, I notice how crisp, clear and sharp the midrange and treble sounds are. The dynamic sense of midrange and treble space is missing in the playback of many recordings. I also find many monitor or speakers tend to be too sluggish sounding in the mid bass. While the Airmotiv6 does not have the “tightest” bass it is quite good, far better than the EquatorD5. This does not mean that all concerts that I go to have the best “detail” of sounds as compared to recordings done in the same hall. With the Airmotiv6 I find the treble to have great horizontal coverage without the beaming effect of dome tweeters. I do not toe in my Airmotiv6 and I am sitting closely at 2 meters which works very well for my needs. I find that the Airmotiv6 gives some of the best realism reproduction of piano, harps, harpsichord, guitar and the like. I have a five year transferable warranty as well but I am going to keep them for a long time. I used to have three pairs of Stax headphones and the Airmotiv6 comes close to the detail retrieval of the Stax and far easier to setup as compared to my big Sound Labs Electrostatics.

With speakers that have greater resolution more careful component matching is required. I find great variation of balanced DAC’s that I have tried and sometimes the single ended outputs has better SQ than the balanced outputs on the same DAC. I had four balanced DAC’s at one time and they were crap until I use the ESI Juil@ card. I have a customsoundproofed computer case with a Juli@ sound card with the balanced outputs driving the fully balanced Little Dot VI+ class A push pull tube amp using the Bendix graphite tubes driving the Airmotiv6.

I have not heard any of the Focal monitors with the inverted domes and I cannot comment on them. I still use my Equator D5 for mixing that translates well on other user systems. I do like the Kef speakers as well and almost got them but the Airmotiv6 has great power and less of the "horn effect" of the Kef's.

[christopher3393]

"... I have a custom sound-proofed computer case with a Juli@ sound card with the balanced outputs driving the fully balanced Little Dot VI+ class A push pull tube pre-amp using the Bendix graphite tubes driving the Airmotiv6..." (edited)

 

This strikes me as crucial, particularly the tube Pre-amp. This may have taken the edge off for me. My ears are more easily fatigued than average, AFAIK.

[pawsman]

The Emotiva Pro Stealth 6 & Stealth 8 powered monitors are now on sale for about 11% off the regular price. The Stealth line is Emotiva's high end line of powered monitors (see: Emotiva Pro — Stealth). A friend is buying the Stealth 8 and XDA2 DAC/Preamp to run them. I'm anxious to hear what they sound like with good program material like the Keith Johnson Reference Recordings.

[jglacken]

How about this for a nice little system: Wadia 151 Power Dac -$799 on Amazon, Wadia 170 dock-$250 on ebay. Mac mini from $599, Pure Music software-$129?, Audience ClairAudient The ONE Speakers-$995 including speakers cables and desktop stands-$995-These come with a 30 trial and full refund if returned.(saw on Audiogon) Total = $2,772.00 Subtract $250 if you don't want or need the dock!

I set this up for my wife without the speakers in her art studio with a pair of Wilson Watts and a Rel sub. Fantastic value from Wadia!

[Mallard612]

Hey guys thank you for the great responses and insight. I honestly forgot about this post as I've been super busy the last few months. When I posted this, I was working in Germany but my wife got a promotion which moved us across the US and now I got a new job and will be moving again in a week. This time its moving across Boston to Cambridge so its much easier.

 

The aesthetics is what keeps drawing my back to the KEF x300a but I'm concerned about the lack of bass. If I even had the option to add a sub at a later time, I think I would pull the trigger already. I'm living in an apartment so I can't have any true deep bass but I'd like to be able to listen to some club or dance music without wanting more. Which brings me back to the LS50 due to the better bass response and overall quality.

 

I'm also curious if anyone has any suggestions for speaker stands that would look good with a zinc desk (http://www.restorationhardware.com/catalog/product/product.jsp?productId=prod2280019&categoryId=cat1850047) or even speaker stands in general that would work well in an open apartment? While I do have a one bedroom, we will be treating our living room/dining/kitchen area almost like a studio. So my desk will be a separate part of the living space and will be very visible. So minimalist, clean and good looks are very important to keeping a happy wife (how's that saying go again? Happy wife, happy life? enough said). I also have two smallish dogs (boston and a pug) who like to play and might run into the stands so sturdy, functional and stylish are all important.

 

Also, does anyone have any really good suggestions for cable management within a desk area and containing computer related cords as well as audio? I also have a large array of computer tech so I might be getting a small server cabinet for my switches and cords but containing everything on the desk and the speaker stands becomes more of the issue. So any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

The integrated systems are very appealing due to the simplicity and reduction in choices and costs. However, I think I'm really leaning the LS50 due to the ability to add on later if I want. So many choices!

 

Thanks again everyone.

[Koop]

I'd actually look into a very simple, yet amazing sounding set of nearfields. Genelec 8240As sound out of this world and have a built in DAC and DSP. It's a complete solution minus a computer that can ouptut AES. I know you stated design is important to you and IMO these things are ugly as sin, but they really do sound amazing. They also might not put out enough bass for you depending on the room size.

 

The other thought I had is we really don't know enough about the application at hand to give good suggestions. What sort of listening do you do? Primarily TV/Movies or Music? Do you do any recording, mixing, or mastering? What are your room dynamics like? How large of a space will your listening area be? How far do you anticipate sitting from the monitors?

[Blake]

How about this for a nice little system: Wadia 151 Power Dac -$799 on Amazon, Wadia 170 dock-$250 on ebay. Mac mini from $599, Pure Music software-$129?, Audience ClairAudient The ONE Speakers-$995 including speakers cables and desktop stands-$995-These come with a 30 trial and full refund if returned.(saw on Audiogon) Total = $2,772.00 Subtract $250 if you don't want or need the dock!

I set this up for my wife without the speakers in her art studio with a pair of Wilson Watts and a Rel sub. Fantastic value from Wadia!

 

This is a desktop/nearfield system I would love to hear (with a subwoofer). I have been very interested in hearing these speakers since the first reports from the audio shows surfaced.

[Swansong]

I was looking for a similar setup and budget as my only system as well. I have reviewed Adam with a little known tube DAC, check it out!!

 

I recommend Adam monitors Ax series and don't be afraid to look at some of the chinese audio companies for a DAC. You can get a lot of bang for your buck and since most are made there anyway why not save by going direct.

[christopher3393]

This is a desktop/nearfield system I would love to hear (with a subwoofer). I have been very interested in hearing these speakers since the first reports from the audio shows surfaced.

 

+1 I still haven't seen any reviews of the Audience ClairAudient The ONE Speakers. I think a 1+1 model is soon to be released as well:

ClairAudient 1+1 | stereodesk.com