Visual studio 2012 c++ and wasapi minimalist player

[Julf]

I believe you call yourself an expert, non ?

 

Non. Aprendiz te todo, maestro de nada. But this thread isn't about me, as far as I know (I am not *that* vain). How about focusing on claims, proof and facts?

 

[sbgk]

Non. Aprendiz te todo, maestro de nada. But this thread isn't about me, as far as I know (I am not *that* vain). How about focusing on claims, proof and facts?

 

 

take it you haven't tried it yet ?

 

why do you distrust your ears ?

[Julf]

take it you haven't tried it yet ?

 

No, not yet, because it involves dusting off the "needed once in a blue moon" windows machine.

 

why do you distrust your ears ?

 

Because 35 years of experience has thought me that what my ears tell me (or what my brain interprets) varies from day to day and from situation to situation, and is very easily mislead by various expectations and distractions.

[jkortela]

Hi

 

I trust my ears.

[Julf]

I trust my ears.

 

That is your personal choice and there is of course nothing wrong with that - but it does reflect your personal preferences and is not necessarily applicable to anyone else.

[John Dot]

That is your personal choice and there is of course nothing wrong with that - but it does reflect your personal preferences and is not necessarily applicable to anyone else.

 

This topic is about MQNplayer.

Dude go trolling somewhere else, please.

 

BTW I'm still looking for "control" version.

[jkortela]

This topic is about MQNplayer.

Dude go trolling somewhere else, please.

 

BTW I'm still looking for "control" version.

 

Agree. I have done similar player (as good as MQN).

 

I can hear, measure with my studio (analog and digital), and MQN is the best player I have ever heard. And I have tested Amarra, Audirvana, etc. So don't troll here.

[Julf]

I can hear, measure with my studio (analog and digital), and MQN is the best player I have ever heard. And I have tested Amarra, Audirvana, etc. So don't troll here.

 

And would it be trolling to ask you to share those measurement results with us?

[jkortela]

And would it be trolling to ask you to share those measurement results with us?

 

Hi, now this is going to the right direction. I can provide the files recorded from the analog signal, so you can make also the comparison.

[Julf]

I can provide the files recorded from the analog signal, so you can make also the comparison.

 

I would love that, but I am on the road this and next week, and don't have access to my usual measuring software and equipment. Would it be possible for you to post your actual measurement results?

[sbgk]

Have uploaded a win 8 compiled version of mqn.exe2.87_win8 using vs 2013 preview and an updated intel driver, a little bit more improvement in SQ RapidShare ? Secure Data Logistics. It will only run on win 8, the previous version 2.87 will run on win 8, but needs the win 7 compatability setting to sound best. win 8 is that much better that I don't listen using win 7 anymore. Am struggling to get the control/player version to work in win 8, but hope to get there as the SQ was the best I had heard using that method. Julf is actually paying MQn a backhanded complement as his measurements can't differentiate between the best and worst player therefore MQn must be as good as the best players out there. I am going to do a version with all the wrong settings, in case people have any doubts about the effect of optimised code.

[sbgk]

I got diverted by win 8, win 8 sounds so much better than win 7 that I wanted it to work on win 8. however, so far haven't been able to get the control version working.

[Julf]

I am going to do a version with all the wrong settings, in case people have any doubts about the effect of optimised code.

 

That is actually a great idea. Would it even be possible to do one that randomly does or doesn't do the optimisations, and only tells you afterwards which one it was? Or even does a proper randomized ABX?

[sbgk]

https://rapidshare.com/#users|459800...a4b6194c|11541

 

have uploaded a mqncontrolexe2.100v6 and mqnplay.exe2.100v6

 

it doesn't have control functions yet, but the sound quality is so phenomenal that some may want to try it. You might as well, since once you've heard it you won't be going back to any previous version of mqn.

 

put the mqnplay.exe in a folder on the c drive called mqnplayer, shall fix this limitation later)

 

put mqncontrol.exe in the same directory as you have mqn.exe, delete mqn.exe and rename mqncontrol.exe to mqn.exe

 

change the mqnstop.bat file to stop mqnplay.exe instead of mqn.exe

 

get ready to hear your music collection as you've never heard it before.

 

only plays 16/44.1 files at the moment.

have uploaded a win 8 version of mqncontrol and mqnplay, the player has the added feature of setting a new feature in win 8 called audio stream category, setting it to AudioCategory_Communications makes it run in a low latency mode , MS say 1ms latency. This certainly takes the edge off the sound like nothing I've heard before, wouldn't know I'm listening to a computer now. Am also using win server 2012 which makes a big difference over win 8 pro. Hopefully have the full control version out over the weekend.

[sbgk]

have uploaded a version of mqnplay with audio stream category set to background media, one with communication and one with no audio stream setting. Am currently thinking that the background media setting is the best, though opinions can change over time.

 

MS say that communication is the lowest latency, but uses more resource, there seems to be a loss of top end. I am surmising that background uses less resource as it seems to be more lively and transparent, no category version is not as good as background.

[John Dot]

Sadly, doesn't work on Win7 pro x64.

[sbgk]

Sadly, doesn't work on Win7 pro x64.

 

a non audiocategory version works so shall put a check for windows version in.

[sbgk]

have uploaded a version of mqnplay with audio stream category set to background media, one with communication and one with no audio stream setting. Am currently thinking that the background media setting is the best, though opinions can change over time.

 

MS say that communication is the lowest latency, but uses more resource, there seems to be a loss of top end. I am surmising that background uses less resource as it seems to be more lively and transparent, no category version is not as good as background.

 

think it's another category called audiocategory_other which sounds best, have uploaded a version. MS says this is for capture and loopback streams.

[John Dot]

a little mess...

Which version of mqncontrol should I use?

BTW can't find "mqncontrol.exe2.100v7". Latest is 2.100v6.

[sbgk]

a little mess...

Which version of mqncontrol should I use?

BTW can't find "mqncontrol.exe2.100v7". Latest is 2.100v6.

 

use mqncontrol.exe_win8 and mqnplay.exenocatdwmnommcss (just uploaded)

 

put the mqnplay.exe in a folder called c:\mqnplayer

 

rename mqncontrol.exe to mqn.exe

 

tested ok on win7 64 bit and win 8

 

have given up on the audiocategory setting, none of them sound good.

[John Dot]

Wirking great. Thank you.

[sbgk]

Wirking great. Thank you.

 

just need to get the control working without affecting the sound

[sbgk]

https://rapidshare.com/#users|459800...a4b6194c|11541

 

have uploaded the control version and updated the mqn.bat and mqnreadme.txt file. the new version uses mqncontrol.exe and mqnplay.exe. works with 16/44.1 up to 24/192, it is possible to crash the control by pressing the keys too quickly, but treat it with respect and it works.

 

only version 2.0 at the moment, shall release the others when I get time.

 

The control works by setting the page protection setting of the sound buffer to no access, the player immediately throws an exception and the control instructions are fed to the player by the controller writing bytes to a spare section of the sound buffer, the exception triggers an unhandled exception function and this function moves the pointer in the sound buffer and then sets the page protection back to the original setting and play recommences. pause is done by the controller setting the player into debug mode.

 

The sound quality is the best I have heard, it makes quite a difference having a small dedicated player exe, I though 16/44.1 was good, but the hirez SQ is much improved as well.

 

That's the end of this little experiment, I have proved to myself that the player is responsible for a large slice of the SQ pie and others seem to appreciate the efforts.

 

As it stands it could be developed further to be integrated with foobar etc, but I don't have the inclination as SQ was my main goal.

 

I am considering writing my own version of A_memcpy dedicated to copying 8192 bytes, so that may improve things further. Will also look at an ASIO implementation and maybe KS for WS 2012 use.

[PeterSt]

I would love that, but I am on the road this and next week, and don't have access to my usual measuring software and equipment. Would it be possible for you to post your actual measurement results?

 

Hey Julf,

 

Once in a while I dig up this thread and read up, and to me it is a good read already to see how someone like sbgk is going through what I have been through myself. And, I can predict what's in the next posts from sbgk (sbgk, you're only some 7 years behind and at some stage I concidered offering some help, which I can't do anyway for obvious reasons).

 

Up to the last time I looked, this has been quite an entertaining thread, seeing a person having a nice one-way conversation but in the mean time showing all his guts, good listening capabilities and some strategy to hook on to, which *is* the way to do it, if one would ask me.

 

Then you came along Julf, and you miserably destroy someone's pleasure and all you do IS trolling. I sure would have banned you, because it isn't the first time (plus you have been banned before for it, so I would make that definite).

 

I sound a bit steamed up perhaps, but I am not. All I see is that you may be killing the deployment of someone's intellect, while it is totally clear to me that you DO have good reasons for doubt knowing a bit of your background, but please, aim such things to me. Not that sbgk can't swallow it (I don't know) but I sure can.

 

Why all this sensitivity from my side ? well, there's some sensitive background with how JPlay emerged, and I don't think sgbk even knows. But I could try to very (very) roughly summarize it by saying that while sgbk was "rejected" by the JPlay guys because of so-called stupid (or say not understood) ideas, I rejected ideas from both Josef and Marcin, and for sgbk : just imagine how these fragile things can be applied in a 180 degree wrong direction - with for me the clear idea that some guys don't know what they are doing, which of course springs from my own thinking that I do know what I am doing. So, easy.

History is a bit complicated, because the sgbk situation is one like "okayyyy, then I do it myself", while my situation lead to a sheer parasiting on my work, which btw is rather explicit, would I be allowed to incorporate the fact that using something like JRMC for interface with a parasite behind it starting with J ...

Smart, but some hate it. Just for the fact that it saves years of working on a UI that you worked on for those same years.

 

sgbk,

 

Can that work ? for obvious reasons never. Complete wrong direction. Your control application ... difficult. But no need to explain it to you.

 

 

Right. I guess I just found my way into some "participation" in this thread which I somehow liked right from the start of it, and now saw some hooks. Possibly this thread now goes in a wrong direction (for staying on-topic) because of it but it seems better than negative energy spent by someone like sgbk.

 

So Julf,

 

I am sure you are very much aware that it is not fair to ask measurements from someone of which you know in advance they can't be provided by the person. Even your question to jkortela (quote above) shows a highest degree of cynicism to me (not to others I am sure) because we both too have some sort of history through CA posts. So jkortela, I am not your brains, but think twice before you attempt, because it will take you months to do it right.

 

Aha. So yes Julf, you are also very much aware of that I can do these measurements (or could, by the lack of appropriate hardware these days), and before anyone comes up with the Mitchco-saga, it is right in that "measurement thread" so everybody knows. So, yes, all playback software, bit perfect to the bone, show a difference in these measurements. But hey, don't you trust your own ears, do you use Bose milk packs perhaps, or do we really really need Freud et all to find out that we are fooled.

 

Now, explicitly noticing that a pile of grains of salt is needed to throw over this post, this is how I come to trolling or maybe having a bit fun for yourself;

Anyone who - anno 2013 - is still claiming that it needs measurement (even after that has been done) to proove audible difference between players, should ... well, be banned to HA ?

 

With a bit of knowledge I accidentally have, at least I can see how someone is taking explicit paths to follow, which even are correct paths (in my view of course). I can't say this from the J thing (not so much my view but what follows from logic which is plain history) nor can I say this from the JR thing who only seem to be able to use inappropriate arguments for banning the J thing. At least that too shows that all what might happen for good SQ is pure coincidence and if I where JR I would say "ban that parasite". Not more.

 

There's a lot in this post, and all I really wanted to say is that when finally someone is genuinely taking up audio playback development with OWN ideas, it does not deserve treatment like this thread's direction lately.

 

Julf, when are we taking up on that beer ? still invited ...

Regards to all,

Peter

 

 

PS: I too did not listen. Haha.

[Julf]

Hey Peter, could we stick to discussing facts, not persons?