Visual studio 2012 c++ and wasapi minimalist player

[sbgk]

One would easily imagine that if there is a real difference, the difference would be measurable...

You come across as an ignorant troll, is that the intention ?

[Julf]

You come across as an ignorant troll, is that the intention ?

 

In my best shark voice (from "Finding Nemo"): 'Facts... are... Friends!'.

[sbgk]

Did you tried to talk with them about that?

 

No, not too bothered, 2.7 was a first attempt at sse4 instructions, have uploaded 2.10 sse4 which is a better implementation - matching the streaming instruction cache lines to the fill buffers, turns out you can't just use 16 x 128 Byte registers, better off with just 8 and matching the loop to the cpu cache and fill buffer capabilities. Used this method, but tweaked it a bit for MQn Copying Accelerated Video Decode Frame Buffers | Intel® Developer Zone

[Julf]

No, not too bothered, 2.7 was a first attempt at sse4 instructions, have uploaded 2.10 sse4 which is a better implementation - matching the streaming instruction cache lines to the fill buffers, turns out you can't just use 16 x 128 Byte registers, better off with just 8 and matching the loop to the cpu cache and fill buffer capabilities. Used this method, but tweaked it a bit for MQn Copying Accelerated Video Decode Frame Buffers | Intel® Developer Zone

 

You do realize that that technique is intended for a very special situation (dealing with the uncacheable video memory) that does not apply to audio data?

[yamamoto2002]

I suppose it is important to measure if the music playback program reduce cache pollution or not using Intel Performance Counter Monitor or VTune to confirm your MOVNTDQA instruction call actually improves something than MOVDQA

[jesuscheung]

thx for replying. i have a funny story. the other day i was using MQn, of course it changes affinity of everything. and then i tried another player called Jie extreme, it changes all priorities of all processes. god save the queen. i have to restart the PC to restore the machine to a normal state.

 

anyway, if you think changing affinity is best for SQ, i wouldn't mind. can it simply just pass an parameter yes/no to the MQn exe? so i can have a difference bat file to use when i don't want to change affinity at all. i hope this makes sense.

 

i use foobar XA mostly with headphones... but when it comes to using loud speakers, i sometimes prefer MQn- because it is so lively! i don't really use MQn with headphones because they are unforgiving sometimes (sorry...). i really don't use other player.

[Julf]

I suppose it is important to measure if the music playback program reduce cache pollution or not using Intel Performance Counter Monitor or VTune to confirm your MOVNTDQA instruction call actually improves something than MOVDQA

 

That would be the rational approach to it. The next step would then be to see if cache pollution makes a difference to sound quality.

[sbgk]

I suppose it is important to measure if the music playback program reduce cache pollution or not using Intel Performance Counter Monitor or VTune to confirm your MOVNTDQA instruction call actually improves something than MOVDQA

 

well, it sounds better than movdqa, that is all I am concerned about ultimately. You can compare mqnplay 2.10 sse4 intel and mqnplay 2.10 sse2 intel 256, the only difference being that sse4 uses movntdqa and sse2 uses movdqa. If I use too many fill buffers the sound is worse. if I use movdqa the sound is worse.

[sbgk]

So what was your favourite player ? Have you tried mqnplay sse4 2.10 intel yet, it is a major upgrade in SQ compared to the previous versions, makes the previous versions (even sse2) sound messy.

 

shall upload a mqncontrol.exe without affinity

[sbgk]

Am satisfied that the 2.10 sse2 and sse4 versions are a big enough step up in SQ so have

 

uploaded sse2 and sse4 versions of mqnplay.exe 3.10 and 1.10 for the non version 2 users.

 

RapidShare ? Secure Data Logistics

 

Have also uploaded a no affinity setting version of mqncontrol.exe

 

the sse4 version needs sse4.1 instruction set on your cpu, check using cpuz

[jesuscheung]

So what was your favourite player ? Have you tried mqnplay sse4 2.10 intel yet, it is a major upgrade in SQ compared to the previous versions, makes the previous versions (even sse2) sound messy.

 

shall upload a mqncontrol.exe without affinity

 

sse4 2.10 is just too good! Before its existence, I would have easily preferred XA1000. Now you ask me, it is now a really tough call! XA is perhaps sweeter and softer. Mqn has this unbelievable clarity. Alright, when I am on headphone, 98 out of 100 players on earth will hurt my ears in some way. XA hurts my ear sometimes. Mqn almost doesn't hurt my ears at all. MQn is the winner!

 

I wonder what XA1000 would sound like without the disadvantages of being foobar having a GUI and other additional functionalities that degrade its SQ>

[jesuscheung]

By the way, how can I play 96 and 192 wav files?

[sbgk]

sse4 2.10 is just too good! Before its existence, I would have easily preferred XA1000. Now you ask me, it is now a really tough call! XA is perhaps sweeter and softer. Mqn has this unbelievable clarity. Alright, when I am on headphone, 98 out of 100 players on earth will hurt my ears in some way. XA hurts my ear sometimes. Mqn almost doesn't hurt my ears at all. MQn is the winner!

 

I wonder what XA1000 would sound like without the disadvantages of being foobar having a GUI and other additional functionalities that degrade its SQ>

 

was that using the affinity or no affinity mqncontrol ? Affinity gives a much better SQ.

[sbgk]

By the way, how can I play 96 and 192 wav files?

MQn can play 88/96/176/192 24 bit wav files, but only with 24 bit in 32 bit containers, I am trying to get 24 bit in 24 working for someone just now. You can check which formats your device can play by downloading wasapi_test.exe from the testing directory, you need to list devices first and then run it for your device, if you can copy and paste the results from event yes and exclusive yes section. ( it runs from a dos window so you need to type in the commands , this was the output from mine , if you right mouse click on the top console bar you can edit\select all and then edit\copy, post the section for exclusive on event driven

 

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.2.9200]

© 2012 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\xxxx>cd c:\

c:\>cd vs2012

c:\vs2012>wasapi_test

wasapi_test -?

wasapi_test --list-devices

wasapi_test [--device "Device long name"]

-? prints this message.

--list-devices displays the long names of all active playback devices.

--device "Device long name" tests all supported audio formats

--verbose lists failed formats as well

 

c:\vs2012>wasapi_test --list-devices

Active render endpoints found: 1

Speakers (High Definition Audio Device)

c:\vs2012>wasapi_test --device "Speakers (High Definition Audio Device)"

EXCLUSIVE: off EVENT DRIVEN: off

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

44100 16 2 176400 4 1 0 - Format works ok

44100 16 2 176400 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

44100 24 2 264600 6 1 0 - Format works ok

44100 24 2 264600 6 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 1 0 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 65534 22 32 3 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 3 0 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 65534 22 32 3 - Format works ok

EXCLUSIVE: on EVENT DRIVEN: off

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

44100 16 2 176400 4 1 0 - Format works ok

44100 16 2 176400 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

48000 16 2 192000 4 1 0 - Format works ok

48000 16 2 192000 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

48000 32 2 384000 8 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

96000 16 2 384000 4 1 0 - Format works ok

96000 16 2 384000 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

96000 32 2 768000 8 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

192000 16 2 768000 4 1 0 - Format works ok

192000 16 2 768000 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

192000 32 2 1536000 8 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

EXCLUSIVE: off EVENT DRIVEN: on

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

44100 16 2 176400 4 1 0 - Format works ok

44100 16 2 176400 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

44100 24 2 264600 6 1 0 - Format works ok

44100 24 2 264600 6 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 1 0 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 65534 22 32 3 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 3 0 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 65534 22 32 3 - Format works ok

EXCLUSIVE: on EVENT DRIVEN: on

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

44100 16 2 176400 4 1 0 - Format works ok

44100 16 2 176400 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

48000 16 2 192000 4 1 0 - Format works ok

48000 16 2 192000 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

48000 32 2 384000 8 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

96000 16 2 384000 4 1 0 - Format works ok

96000 16 2 384000 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

96000 32 2 768000 8 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

192000 16 2 768000 4 1 0 - Format works ok

192000 16 2 768000 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

192000 32 2 1536000 8 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

AC3 - EXCLUSIVE: on EVENT DRIVEN: off

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

AC3 - EXCLUSIVE: on EVENT DRIVEN: on

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

WASAPI-test.exe version: 3 tested: 2526 ok: 42

c:\vs2012>

[sbgk]

have downloaded vtune free trial for 30 days, so I have 30 days to play with it and hopefully optimise MQn a bit more.

[jesuscheung]

Since you talk about how to stream data as fast as possible from MQn to RAM to CPU to achieve great SQ, I thought you might be interested in overclocking you RAM to increase SQ. It does work, but it takes time, in my case.

 

I have Consair ram rated at 1600Mhz, 9-9-9-24-2, 1.5v. I overclock it to 1800Mhz 8-9-8-34-2, 1.775v.

 

The trick is to know that given timing a-b-c-d-e, a, b and c are always good to be as tight as possible. HOWEVER, for my ram, it should be that d=((b+c)/2)*(some integer multiple) so that d is returned as an exact number. In my case, ((9+8)/2)*4=34. if d is any other number, it doesn't really sound good. e should be 2, if it is 1, it sounds messy. For my ram, if I overclock more than 1800MHz, the highs will start to sound really cold and soar.

 

The improvement in SQ is quit big, as much as non-SSE Mqn vs SEE Mqn. It took me a long time to figure it out. It might not work for you, but I think it is worth a try. Also, every RAM voltage sounds different, you have to listen to find out.

[sbgk]

sse4 2.10 is just too good! Before its existence, I would have easily preferred XA1000. Now you ask me, it is now a really tough call! XA is perhaps sweeter and softer. Mqn has this unbelievable clarity. Alright, when I am on headphone, 98 out of 100 players on earth will hurt my ears in some way. XA hurts my ear sometimes. Mqn almost doesn't hurt my ears at all. MQn is the winner!

 

I wonder what XA1000 would sound like without the disadvantages of being foobar having a GUI and other additional functionalities that degrade its SQ>

 

I tried the xa1000 player, but there always seemed to be a digital layer to the sound, think he quotes multicore, which may be the problem along with multithreading etc

[sbgk]

Since you talk about how to stream data as fast as possible from MQn to RAM to CPU to achieve great SQ, I thought you might be interested in overclocking you RAM to increase SQ. It does work, but it takes time, in my case.

 

I have Consair ram rated at 1600Mhz, 9-9-9-24-2, 1.5v. I overclock it to 1800Mhz 8-9-8-34-2, 1.775v.

 

The trick is to know that given timing a-b-c-d-e, a, b and c are always good to be as tight as possible. HOWEVER, for my ram, it should be that d=((b+c)/2)*(some integer multiple) so that d is returned as an exact number. In my case, ((9+8)/2)*4=34. if d is any other number, it doesn't really sound good. e should be 2, if it is 1, it sounds messy. For my ram, if I overclock more than 1800MHz, the highs will start to sound really cold and soar.

 

The improvement in SQ is quit big, as much as non-SSE Mqn vs SEE Mqn. It took me a long time to figure it out. It might not work for you, but I think it is worth a try. Also, every RAM voltage sounds different, you have to listen to find out.

I don't have a hand built machine, just use an i3 laptop, (wifi and lan disabled), I use ws2012 with high performance power plan to get no core parking and set the max/min processor frequency to 0%, so it appears I am underclocking the cpu, if it at 100% I can detect a digital sound, can't adjust the voltages. Was speaking to someone who optimised music pcs and he was using "i7 2600k in a asus p8z77m with 16gb ram the processor is under clocked to 1.6ghz and the ram to 800mhz not sure why but sounds better that way" also read an intel article that recommended ram frequency to be half the cpu frequency.

[jesuscheung]

MQn can play 88/96/176/192 24 bit wav files, but only with 24 bit in 32 bit containers, I am trying to get 24 bit in 24 working for someone just now. You can check which formats your device can play by downloading wasapi_test.exe from the testing directory, you need to list devices first and then run it for your device, if you can copy and paste the results from event yes and exclusive yes section. ( it runs from a dos window so you need to type in the commands , this was the output from mine , if you right mouse click on the top console bar you can edit\select all and then edit\copy, post the section for exclusive on event driven

.....

 

Alright, I have done those steps- I have copied the text, and where do I paste it to? lol....

[sbgk]

Alright, I have done those steps- I have copied the text, and where do I paste it to? lol....

can't you paste it into this thread ?

[jesuscheung]

I tried the xa1000 player, but there always seemed to be a digital layer to the sound, think he quotes multicore, which may be the problem along with multithreading etc

 

Digital sounding? That's strange. Did you apply his ASIO4ALL mod? And he said you need to set the buffers exactly as he said. Also, were you using the foobar2000.exe inside the 'foobar2000 XA wav' folder? actually there are a lot to setup with his player...

[jesuscheung]

E:\Downloads>WASAPI_test.exe --device "Speakers (ASUS Xonar Essence STX Audio D

vice)

 

 

EXCLUSIVE: off EVENT DRIVEN: off

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

EXCLUSIVE: on EVENT DRIVEN: off

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

EXCLUSIVE: off EVENT DRIVEN: on

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

EXCLUSIVE: on EVENT DRIVEN: on

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

AC3 - EXCLUSIVE: on EVENT DRIVEN: off

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

AC3 - EXCLUSIVE: on EVENT DRIVEN: on

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

WASAPI-test.exe version: 3 tested: 2526 ok: 0

E:\Downloads>WASAPI_test.exe --device "Speakers (ASUS Xonar Essence STX Audio D

vice)"

 

 

EXCLUSIVE: off EVENT DRIVEN: off

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

EXCLUSIVE: on EVENT DRIVEN: off

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

EXCLUSIVE: off EVENT DRIVEN: on

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

EXCLUSIVE: on EVENT DRIVEN: on

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

AC3 - EXCLUSIVE: on EVENT DRIVEN: off

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

AC3 - EXCLUSIVE: on EVENT DRIVEN: on

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

WASAPI-test.exe version: 3 tested: 2526 ok: 0

E:\Downloads>WASAPI_test.exe --device "Speakers (ASUS Xonar Essence STX Audio D

vice)"

 

 

EXCLUSIVE: off EVENT DRIVEN: off

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

44100 16 2 176400 4 1 0 - Format works ok

44100 16 2 176400 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

44100 24 2 264600 6 1 0 - Format works ok

44100 24 2 264600 6 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 1 0 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 65534 22 32 3 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 3 0 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 65534 22 32 3 - Format works ok

 

 

EXCLUSIVE: on EVENT DRIVEN: off

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

44100 16 2 176400 4 1 0 - Format works ok

44100 16 2 176400 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

44100 24 2 264600 6 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

44100 16 4 352800 8 65534 22 16 51 - Format works ok

44100 24 4 529200 12 65534 22 24 51 - Format works ok

44100 16 6 529200 12 65534 22 16 1551 - Format works ok

44100 24 6 793800 18 65534 22 24 1551 - Format works ok

44100 16 8 705600 16 65534 22 16 1599 - Format works ok

44100 24 8 1058400 24 65534 22 24 1599 - Format works ok

48000 16 2 192000 4 1 0 - Format works ok

48000 16 2 192000 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

48000 24 2 288000 6 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

48000 16 4 384000 8 65534 22 16 51 - Format works ok

48000 24 4 576000 12 65534 22 24 51 - Format works ok

48000 16 6 576000 12 65534 22 16 1551 - Format works ok

48000 24 6 864000 18 65534 22 24 1551 - Format works ok

48000 16 8 768000 16 65534 22 16 1599 - Format works ok

48000 24 8 1152000 24 65534 22 24 1599 - Format works ok

96000 16 2 384000 4 1 0 - Format works ok

96000 16 2 384000 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

96000 24 2 576000 6 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

96000 16 4 768000 8 65534 22 16 51 - Format works ok

96000 24 4 1152000 12 65534 22 24 51 - Format works ok

96000 16 6 1152000 12 65534 22 16 1551 - Format works ok

96000 24 6 1728000 18 65534 22 24 1551 - Format works ok

96000 16 8 1536000 16 65534 22 16 1599 - Format works ok

96000 24 8 2304000 24 65534 22 24 1599 - Format works ok

192000 16 2 768000 4 1 0 - Format works ok

192000 16 2 768000 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

192000 24 2 1152000 6 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

192000 16 4 1536000 8 65534 22 16 51 - Format works ok

192000 24 4 2304000 12 65534 22 24 51 - Format works ok

192000 16 6 2304000 12 65534 22 16 1551 - Format works ok

192000 24 6 3456000 18 65534 22 24 1551 - Format works ok

192000 16 8 3072000 16 65534 22 16 1599 - Format works ok

192000 24 8 4608000 24 65534 22 24 1599 - Format works ok

 

 

EXCLUSIVE: off EVENT DRIVEN: on

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

44100 16 2 176400 4 1 0 - Format works ok

44100 16 2 176400 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

44100 24 2 264600 6 1 0 - Format works ok

44100 24 2 264600 6 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 1 0 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 65534 22 32 3 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 3 0 - Format works ok

44100 32 2 352800 8 65534 22 32 3 - Format works ok

 

 

EXCLUSIVE: on EVENT DRIVEN: on

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

44100 16 2 176400 4 1 0 - Format works ok

44100 16 2 176400 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

44100 24 2 264600 6 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

44100 16 4 352800 8 65534 22 16 51 - Format works ok

44100 24 4 529200 12 65534 22 24 51 - Format works ok

44100 16 6 529200 12 65534 22 16 1551 - Format works ok

44100 24 6 793800 18 65534 22 24 1551 - Format works ok

44100 16 8 705600 16 65534 22 16 1599 - Format works ok

44100 24 8 1058400 24 65534 22 24 1599 - Format works ok

48000 16 2 192000 4 1 0 - Format works ok

48000 16 2 192000 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

48000 24 2 288000 6 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

48000 16 4 384000 8 65534 22 16 51 - Format works ok

48000 24 4 576000 12 65534 22 24 51 - Format works ok

48000 16 6 576000 12 65534 22 16 1551 - Format works ok

48000 24 6 864000 18 65534 22 24 1551 - Format works ok

48000 16 8 768000 16 65534 22 16 1599 - Format works ok

48000 24 8 1152000 24 65534 22 24 1599 - Format works ok

96000 16 2 384000 4 1 0 - Format works ok

96000 16 2 384000 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

96000 24 2 576000 6 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

96000 16 4 768000 8 65534 22 16 51 - Format works ok

96000 24 4 1152000 12 65534 22 24 51 - Format works ok

96000 16 6 1152000 12 65534 22 16 1551 - Format works ok

96000 24 6 1728000 18 65534 22 24 1551 - Format works ok

96000 16 8 1536000 16 65534 22 16 1599 - Format works ok

96000 24 8 2304000 24 65534 22 24 1599 - Format works ok

192000 16 2 768000 4 1 0 - Format works ok

192000 16 2 768000 4 65534 22 16 3 - Format works ok

192000 24 2 1152000 6 65534 22 24 3 - Format works ok

192000 16 4 1536000 8 65534 22 16 51 - Format works ok

192000 24 4 2304000 12 65534 22 24 51 - Format works ok

192000 16 6 2304000 12 65534 22 16 1551 - Format works ok

192000 24 6 3456000 18 65534 22 24 1551 - Format works ok

192000 16 8 3072000 16 65534 22 16 1599 - Format works ok

192000 24 8 4608000 24 65534 22 24 1599 - Format works ok

 

 

AC3 - EXCLUSIVE: on EVENT DRIVEN: off

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

AC3 - EXCLUSIVE: on EVENT DRIVEN: on

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[jesuscheung]

I respectfully disagree with underclocking the 2600K to get better SQ. I had that exact CPU and I tired it, but I forgot the best frequency for SQ... Well, I am currently using a 3770K, its best SQ is definitely at 4.0Ghz. It doesn't sound as good at 1.6 or 1.7 or 3.9 etc with any ram frequency>1800Mhz in my case. actually it starts to decrease in SQ from 4.1Ghz and onward, you name a frequency, I probably tired it. The trick is to find the best voltage too. Some CPU voltages sound horrible.

[sbgk]

Digital sounding? That's strange. Did you apply his ASIO4ALL mod? And he said you need to set the buffers exactly as he said. Also, were you using the foobar2000.exe inside the 'foobar2000 XA wav' folder? actually there are a lot to setup with his player...

I think it is written specifically for a dac that can only play 48/16 or something, I don't understand why all the configurations are required.

[sbgk]

I respectfully disagree with underclocking the 2600K to get better SQ. I had that exact CPU and I tired it, but I forgot the best frequency for SQ... Well, I am currently using a 3770K, its best SQ is definitely at 4.0Ghz. It doesn't sound as good at 1.6 or 1.7 or 3.9 etc with any ram frequency>1800Mhz in my case. actually it starts to decrease in SQ from 4.1Ghz and onward, you name a frequency, I probably tired it. The trick is to find the best voltage too. Some CPU voltages sounds horrible.

not my area of knowledge, but generally I have found lower frequencies sound better. I know higher frequencies and smaller buffers can make it seem like you are hearing more detail.