Visual studio 2012 c++ and wasapi minimalist player

[sbgk]

Unfortunately v1/2/3.3 had an issue in that the new setting introduced a very unsettling type of digital frequency which made it hard to listen to after a while, so had to remove that setting as couldn't find a satisfactory working setting.

 

All is not lost though, as I found 2 more optimisations in the render loop (these have really tidied up the sound, should have spotted them before) and retested A_memcpy against memcpy and CopyMemory (A_memcpy still comes out top) and retested MFC static vs shared windows library setting and retested the vs2012 libraries vs intel c++ libraries and retested profile guided optimisation vs non pgo.

 

So all in all this should be the final release, the sound is now very together ie coherent, no real weaknesses, the digital sound of 1/2/3.3 has gone, plenty air, bass, detail, can follow instruments through the music and also place them better than previous versions ie it's a gorgeous sound and the better your system the better it should sound, though it sounds pretty good through headphones plugged into a laptop.

 

https://rapidshare.com/#users|45980080|0ae609ce616a35c8de7ac5fda4b6194c|11541

 

now I just need to see if I can control it remotely via foobar2000 and my samsung note 10.1, convenience of digital music with MQn sound quality, does it get any better ?

[thinkspace]

I would like to say, if you want program to improve the quality of audio output, these alone is not enough.

 

Windows Memory Manager is not what you thought it would work, and want to improve memory efficiency, much work needs to be done, it's not easy.

 

 

One key element is how to bypass the Windows Memory Manager.

You must have a good understanding of the Windows kernel, written hacker program to handle audio processing.

[sbgk]

I would like to say, if you want program to improve the quality of audio output, these alone is not enough.

 

Windows Memory Manager is not what you thought it would work, and want to improve memory efficiency, much work needs to be done, it's not easy.

 

 

One key element is how to bypass the Windows Memory Manager.

You must have a good understanding of the Windows kernel, written hacker program to handle audio processing.

 

are you the same thinkspace that has developed jie extreme, self proclaimed "the best sound on pc" ?

 

have you tried listening to MQn ? that's the usual procedure before commenting on something, try it out and then comment. Although you aren't the first player developer on this thread to pass comment without trying it. 3 others have implied what I was doing wouldn't work without listening to MQn beforehand.

 

why do you think there is something wrong with the windows memory manager ? what are the symptoms of windows memory manager deficiencies ie what affect does it have on the sound ?

 

I am not a big fan of players that need to process the audio data (leads to the music sounding processed, strangely enough eg JPlay and I would guess that jie will have the same characteristics), MQn doesn't do any audio processing, unlike jie, so is not as constrained by the limitations of windows memory manager.

 

have read (in other forums) that jie is a bit buggy, can play only one track at a time, smears the sound and is similar in quality to other players out there, so maybe your efforts have been misdirected to trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

 

is there a version of jie that doesn't require a sandybridge cpu and can play on win7, I would like to try it ?

 

don't understand your last sentence, you've written a hacker program to handle audio processing ?

[thinkspace]

are you the same thinkspace that has developed jie extreme, self proclaimed "the best sound on pc" ?

 

have you tried listening to MQn ? that's the usual procedure before commenting on something, try it out and then comment. Although you aren't the first player developer on this thread to pass comment without trying it. 3 others have implied what I was doing wouldn't work without listening to MQn beforehand.

 

why do you think there is something wrong with the windows memory manager ? what are the symptoms of windows memory manager deficiencies ie what affect does it have on the sound ?

 

I am not a big fan of players that need to process the audio data (leads to the music sounding processed, strangely enough eg JPlay and I would guess that jie will have the same characteristics), MQn doesn't do any audio processing, unlike jie, so is not as constrained by the limitations of windows memory manager.

 

have read (in other forums) that jie is a bit buggy, can play only one track at a time, smears the sound and is similar in quality to other players out there, so maybe your efforts have been misdirected to trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

 

is there a version of jie that doesn't require a sandybridge cpu and can play on win7, I would like to try it ?

 

don't understand your last sentence, you've written a hacker program to handle audio processing ?

 

You can try JEP 2.4.8, (LINK REMOVED)

 

Unzip the file, run JEPCFG.BAT with administrator privileges, and reboot.

Also, I never said "the best sound on PC", this is the user description.

[sbgk]

Also, I never said "the best sound on PC", this is the user description.

 

I quote your post from head fi, post 31 from in your Jie Extreme Player 2.4.8 released thread

 

"New release version is expected in 2013-1-1, will bring about a better sound.

 

 

Jie Extreme Player 2.4.4 - The best sound on PC.

 

 

ps:JEP2.4.4 Special Edtion have been issued"

 

no sign of that being a user quote and notice you haven't addressed any of my other comments.

 

given how rude you have been on this thread and the reports of buggy software, I don't feel inclined to install your player. I already have Jplay 5.1 and other players for comparison, so I know how good MQn is.

 

I can't condone your pricing policy, you seem to be charging extra for what are a couple of switches in the compiler/linker settings, don't think that is very fair on your customers.

[thinkspace]

Pricing? JEP is free.

The pursuit of sound is different for everyone, keep your determination, and to achieve it.

[sbgk]

Pricing? JEP is free.

The pursuit of sound is different for everyone, keep your determination, and to achieve it.

 

 

I'm sorry, I can't believe a word you say after your performance on this thread.

[John Dot]

Hey thinkspace, are you kidding?

https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/30838d3d4e300b85952dacb27aa663a8906a379aaaca31c1db7f6e0998835331/analysis/1364763413/

[sbgk]

unbelievable, surely trying to infect a fellow posters machine with trojan software warrants a ban

[darkfrank]

Well, I have tried op's player, it work's on my 64bit win7, but not win8

 

I like OP's idea, minimalist, just remind me of the stealth player i tried b4

 

The sound is good, transparent, clear, however lack of some details compared to other "audiophile player" i tried

 

About thinkspace's jie player,I have been using it in the whole past year, doesnt have any problem.

 

Instead it use a lot of codes to bypass windows memory control, increase prioiry such as system process(like jplay services), etc.

 

Its not suprise that those online scanner will treat it as a trojan.

[sbgk]

Well, I have tried op's player, it work's on my 64bit win7, but not win8

 

I like OP's idea, minimalist, just remind me of the stealth player i tried b4

 

The sound is good, transparent, clear, however lack of some details compared to other "audiophile player" i tried

 

About thinkspace's jie player,I have been using it in the whole past year, doesnt have any problem.

 

Instead it use a lot of codes to bypass windows memory control, increase prioiry such as system process(like jplay services), etc.

 

Its not suprise that those online scanner will treat it as a trojan.

 

Hi darkfrank, thankyou for providing some useful feedback, I agree it is lacking some detail as v3.3 showed there was more to be obtained. Can you provide some details about your setup ?

 

which players have you tried before and how would you rank them ?

 

I have just release vx.6 which switches off the desktop window manager's use of MMCSS leading to a dramatic improvement in the amount of detail obtained and a fantastic 3d sound stage.

 

https://rapidshare.com/#users|45980080|0ae609ce616a35c8de7ac5fda4b6194c|11541

 

Can you provide more detail about your setup re MQn not working with win 8, what audio device etc are you using ? does it work with other wasapi players ?

 

I believe jie needs to bypass the windows memory manager because he is trying to do some audio processing and thus needs better performance, jie hogs the cpu. I am in the camp that wants minimal cpu cycles in my audio player.

 

It's encouraging that MQn is being compared to such world class professional players as jie.

 

How do you know there isn't a trojan/spyware installed with jie ?

[darkfrank]

Can you provide some details about your setup ?

 

Intel z77 platform with ivy bridge cpu

SLC SSD with ppastudio sata cable

ppastudio usb 3.0 pcie card with +5v linear power

hiface 2 xmos usb converter

w4s dac2

adam a5x

 

which players have you tried before?

 

"audiohile player" : xxhighend, jplay, jriver, playpcmwin, HQplayer, Stealth, Audiogate, CPlay, JEP (probablly more then i can remember)

Studio software: saw, wavelab 6, AA3, goldwave

 

deadbeef, audicious with jack output under ap-linux

 

I have just release vx.6 which switches off the desktop window manager's use of MMCSS leading to a dramatic improvement in the amount of detail obtained and a fantastic 3d sound stage.

 

https://rapidshare.com/#users|45980080|0ae609ce616a35c8de7ac5fda4b6194c|11541

 

Thanks, I will give it a try later.

 

Can you provide more detail about your setup re MQn not working with win 8, what audio device etc are you using ? does it work with other wasapi players ?

 

yes, work on other players

 

How do you know there isn't a trojan/spyware installed with jie ?

 

I would admit that im a fans of Thinkspace's player after i have tried so many software above

[jkortela]

First of all, Thanks sbgk for your great work. I have never heard better sound from my system.

 

I have one question: What exactly this command returns:

 

HRESULT GetDevicePeriod(

[out] REFERENCE_TIME *phnsDefaultDevicePeriod,

[out] REFERENCE_TIME *phnsMinimumDevicePeriod

);

 

For my Wavelink USB-SPDIF converter, phnsDefaultDevicePeriod works but not phnsMinimumDevicePeriod. phnsMinimumDevicePeriod works only when I set Stream Buffer Size 1 milliseconds inmy USB Audio Class Control Panel (1.26).

 

Other possible settings in my USB Audio Class Control Panel are 1, 2, 4, 8, 12, 16, 24, and 32 milliseconds.

[John Dot]

First of all, Thanks sbgk for your great work. I have never heard better sound from my system.

 

Same here :-)

I've tried Jplay 5.1 with Ultrastream. There's difference in SQ and I bet they use DSP.

[sbgk]

First of all, Thanks sbgk for your great work. I have never heard better sound from my system.

 

I have one question: What exactly this command returns:

 

HRESULT GetDevicePeriod(

[out] REFERENCE_TIME *phnsDefaultDevicePeriod,

[out] REFERENCE_TIME *phnsMinimumDevicePeriod

);

 

For my Wavelink USB-SPDIF converter, phnsDefaultDevicePeriod works but not phnsMinimumDevicePeriod. phnsMinimumDevicePeriod works only when I set Stream Buffer Size 1 milliseconds inmy USB Audio Class Control Panel (1.26).

 

Other possible settings in my USB Audio Class Control Panel are 1, 2, 4, 8, 12, 16, 24, and 32 milliseconds.

 

glad you like it.

 

That's a strange question, it's not MQn code you are asking about and the answer is easily found by google. The MQn code is

 

// get the periodicity of the device

REFERENCE_TIME hnsPeriod;

hr = pAudioClient->GetDevicePeriod(

&hnsPeriod, // don't care about the engine period

NULL // only the device period

);

 

as per your variable names it is used to query the devices period and returns the default and minimum period. MQn doesn't actually use it because the periods are fixed according to the bit depth/sample rate. Not sure about the interaction with your usb device, with MQn just set it to as large a value so that it works. I set my mf vlink 192 driver to safe/4096. devices typically have minimum 3ms and default 10ms. MQn ranges from 5.3 ms to 23 ms, but always aligned to 4096 byte and 8192 for >96khz

 

Finding it funny reading JPlay forum about their 5.1 version, a few weeks after I started developung MQn I offered it to them asking why they couldn't produce an engine that sounded like MQn, needless to say there was no reply. Imagine my surprise when JPlay 5.1 was released with a new ultrastream engine, ha, ha, not the first time they have used one of my ideas - I told them I was getting better sound in v4.2 by making it realtime priority, next thing you know JPlay has real time priority. Anyway, the funny thing about 5.1 is that I read a post saying Ultrastream was now this user's favorite engine, but it sounded too slow. If only they had taken me up on my offer they could have got the speed right, maybe they will do an MQn sounding version later.

 

found out MQn vx.6 is much the same as vx.5 with the wdm service stopped (which is a recommended tweak).

 

next version will stop the mmcss and wdm services to squeeze that bit extra sound quality out.

 

darkfrank, interesting set up, have you considered a linear ps for your pc ? I use a linear bench ps for my laptop and external hdd.

 

I tried win 8, but couldn't get the vlink driver to install, so a bit stuck until that is fixed. All I can say is that it worked on win8 via hdmi to my nad m51.

 

bit concerned you thought MQn sounded like stealth audio player, MQn is far better in my set up.

 

I would love an i7, put all the ancilliary tasks on core 0, disk interrupts on core 1, network interrupts on core 2 + usb driver and MQn on core 3.

[jkortela]

Basically, I followed your thread in Audio Asylum -- Audio Reviews, Audiophile Forums and Stereo Reviews and made my own tests with my Wavelink and Visual Studio 10, because I have 32bit Windows version. But all you presented, increase the sound quality (amazing), but I had to do some fixes for Wavelink.

 

Thanks.

[sbgk]

I started MQn as an attempt to see how good a stripped down player could sound, having experienced the results I just don't see the need for dsp in a player. If you get the player right then the sound quality is incredible, having heard 16/44.1 played by MQn you really have to ask why hirez is required. So, why has no one tried the MQn approach before ? Well, I'm an engineer and get a kick out of solving problems, so maybe I was able to look at the problems in a different way to how a digital audio expert or programmer would.

[sbgk]

that's interesting, what changes did you make ? I can try making a 32 bit win2012 version for you. I tried to get a 32 bit version working for someone using an atom cpu, but gave up in the end and they switched to 64 bit. the 64 bit version sounds a lot better than 32 bit, so worth upgrading if you are in a position to.

[jkortela]

Hi SBGK

 

With devices: Speakers (Conexant 20561 SmartAudio HD) or Speakers Speakers (WaveLink HS) the following worked better in my case

loop:

WaitForSingleObject(hNeedDataEvent, INFINITE);

hr = pAudioRenderClient->GetBuffer(nFramesInBuffer, &pData);

A_memcpy (pData, sound_buffer + nBytesToSkip, nBytesThisPass);

hr = pAudioRenderClient->ReleaseBuffer(nFramesInBuffer, 0);

 

At least with Wavelink HS there is cracks and pops all the time and Conexant 20561 SmartAudio HD is much more noisier if I use the following (So GetBuffer and ReleaseBuffer should be done in row for some reason. I might be wrong. I will do some additional tests.):

loop:

WaitForSingleObject(hNeedDataEvent, INFINITE);

hr = pAudioRenderClient->ReleaseBuffer(nFramesInBuffer, 0);

hr = pAudioRenderClient->GetBuffer(nFramesInBuffer, &pData);

A_memcpy (pData, sound_buffer + nBytesToSkip, nBytesThisPass);

[sbgk]

Hi SBGK

 

With devices: Speakers (Conexant 20561 SmartAudio HD) or Speakers Speakers (WaveLink HS) the following worked better in my case

loop:

WaitForSingleObject(hNeedDataEvent, INFINITE);

hr = pAudioRenderClient->GetBuffer(nFramesInBuffer, &pData);

A_memcpy (pData, sound_buffer + nBytesToSkip, nBytesThisPass);

hr = pAudioRenderClient->ReleaseBuffer(nFramesInBuffer, 0);

 

At least with Wavelink HS there is cracks and pops all the time and Conexant 20561 SmartAudio HD is much more noisier if I use the following (So GetBuffer and ReleaseBuffer should be done in row for some reason. I might be wrong. I will do some additional tests.):

loop:

WaitForSingleObject(hNeedDataEvent, INFINITE);

hr = pAudioRenderClient->ReleaseBuffer(nFramesInBuffer, 0);

hr = pAudioRenderClient->GetBuffer(nFramesInBuffer, &pData);

A_memcpy (pData, sound_buffer + nBytesToSkip, nBytesThisPass);

 

MQn.exe v3.6 uses get/load/release

 

MQn.exe v1.6 uses load/release/get

 

MQn.exe v2.6 uses release/get/load

 

If you wouldn't mind testing it I will try a 32 bit version of 3.6 and see if that works for you.

 

for better sound change to

 

loop:

WaitForSingleObject(hNeedDataEvent, INFINITE);

pAudioRenderClient->GetBuffer(nFramesInBuffer, &pData);

A_memcpy (pData, sound_buffer + nBytesToSkip, nBytesThisPass);

pAudioRenderClient->ReleaseBuffer(nFramesInBuffer, 0);

 

also look to hardcoding the frames and bytes variables

[jkortela]

I am happy to test it. Same time, I will try to modify my version and hardcode as much lines as possible.

[jkortela]

Hi sbgk

 

Here is the reason for my conclusion:

 

IAudioRenderClient::ReleaseBuffer method

 

IAudioRenderClient::ReleaseBuffer method (Windows)

 

"Clients should avoid excessive delays between the GetBuffer call that acquires a buffer and the ReleaseBuffer call that releases the buffer. The implementation of the audio engine assumes that the GetBuffer call and the corresponding ReleaseBuffer call occur within the same buffer-processing period. Clients that delay releasing a buffer for more than one period risk losing sample data."

 

At least with these sound cards: Speakers (Conexant 20561 SmartAudio HD) or Speakers Speakers (WaveLink HS)

 

the better sound is with this loop:

 

WaitForSingleObject(hNeedDataEvent, INFINITE);

hr = pAudioRenderClient->GetBuffer(nFramesInBuffer, &pData);

A_memcpy (pData, sound_buffer + nBytesToSkip, nBytesThisPass);

hr = pAudioRenderClient->ReleaseBuffer(nFramesInBuffer, 0);

[sbgk]

Just released MQn version x.14

 

download from

 

https://rapidshare.com/#users|45980080|0ae609ce616a35c8de7ac5fda4b6194c|11541

 

version x.14 needs the MMCSS and DWM services to be disabled for best sound quality, there are instructions in the MQnMMCSSDisable Readme.txt file (requires a small registry edit)

 

Have also uploaded a method of playing flac files with MQn using sox to decode them to wav before playback start, there are instructions in the readme file in the MQnFlac.zip

 

version x.14 is a big step up from v x.6

 

1. I had implemented MMCSS the wrong way round so that it was affecting the sound quality, I experimented with the recommended way and finally came to the realisation that MMCSS was bad for sound quality, so v x.14 doesn't use MMCSS and it is recommended that MMCSS is disabled. MMCSS is there so that cpu intensive media apps are not affected by other system loads, MQn is not cpu intensive and is a constant load so doesn't need another process (MMCSS) switching threads and priorities in and out for what is a non existent problem (MMCSS is designed for a heavy periodic cpu load and then a period of no load).

 

2. I had set the priority of MQn too high so that it was affecting critical system processes and sound quality, v x.14 priority has been lowered to the best setting for sound quality.

 

3. Intel have updated their c++ libraries, the new ones provide quite a step up in sound quality.

 

the future - plan to have pause and track skip back/forward and a more comprehensive decode ability. The decoding is done in the MQn.bat file so if anyone wants to have a go at setting it up to handle other formats then feel free.

[sbgk]

Just released MQn version x.14

 

download from

 

https://rapidshare.com/#users|45980080|0ae609ce616a35c8de7ac5fda4b6194c|11541

 

version x.14 needs the MMCSS and DWM services to be disabled for best sound quality, there are instructions in the MQnMMCSSDisable Readme.txt file (requires a small registry edit)

 

Have also uploaded a method of playing flac files with MQn using sox to decode them to wav before playback start, there are instructions in the readme file in the MQnFlac.zip

 

version x.14 is a big step up from v x.6

 

1. I had implemented MMCSS the wrong way round so that it was affecting the sound quality, I experimented with the recommended way and finally came to the realisation that MMCSS was bad for sound quality, so v x.14 doesn't use MMCSS and it is recommended that MMCSS is disabled. MMCSS is there so that cpu intensive media apps are not affected by other system loads, MQn is not cpu intensive and is a constant load so doesn't need another process (MMCSS) switching threads and priorities in and out for what is a non existent problem (MMCSS is designed for a heavy periodic cpu load and then a period of no load).

 

2. I had set the priority of MQn too high so that it was affecting critical system processes and sound quality, v x.14 priority has been lowered to the best setting for sound quality.

 

3. Intel have updated their c++ libraries, the new ones provide quite a step up in sound quality.

 

the future - plan to have pause and track skip back/forward and a more comprehensive decode ability. The decoding is done in the MQn.bat file so if anyone wants to have a go at setting it up to handle other formats then feel free.

 

oops, version 1.14 used copymemory for 16/44.1 instead of A_memcpy, have uploaded a corrected version and moved the old one to the archive in case anyone wants to compare.

 

versions 2.14 and 3.14 were not affected

[sbgk]

version 22 - dialed back some of the optimisations that made the sound worse and added some newly discovered ones as my understanding improved.

 

Removed profile guided optimisation, removed prefer fast code, removed mfc static library, added MMCSS back in, aligned memory to cache, added string pooling, /vms /vmb switches

 

best version yet - detailed, dynamic, analogue like.

 

https://rapidshare.com/#users|45980080|0ae609ce616a35c8de7ac5fda4b6194c|11541

 

requires mmcss to be enabled and running

 

also recommend setting mmcss pro audio background only setting to True

 

regedit

 

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\Tasks\Pro Audio

 

change Background Only to True