vinylphile Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 If somebody asks you "what is the top speed of your car, and how many miles per gallon do you get?", the answer "I never drive more than 60, and I fill up when the petrol gauge shows half empty" doesn't really help... Agree. But the answer to the question may or may not have real world implications. My dad had a k-car in the 1980s that felt like it was gonna 'splode any time it went above 90km/hr. Pretty sure the specs stated its top speed was at least twice that but one turn behind the wheel is all it took to disprove that "fact". Also, "how many miles per gallon do you get" is a far different question from "how many miles does you car get on paper". The former is often higher than the latter in my experience - and only the latter matters. The only thing that matters is how the thing performs in the real world. exaSound PlayPoint DM MkII with Uptone Audio JS-2 power supply; Horn Shoppe The Truth preamp; Coincident Frankenstein MkII mono blocs (mid/tweeter) and Dragon 211b mono blocs (woofers); Coincident Pure Reference Extreme MkII loudspeakers; Coincident cabling throughout...Analogue: Jean Nantais Ultimate Lenco turntable with Durand Kairos arm, Benz-Micro LPS cartridge; Coincident Statement phono stage Link to comment
bdiament Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Hi Richard, The words! The words!... No need for you to apologize my friend. You are not among those who seem to believe their experience (or perspective) must be reflected in everyone else's. In my experience, those with confidence will tell me about *their* experience. Those who lack confidence will attempt to tell me about mine. Best regards, Barry Soundkeeper Recordings Barry Diament Audio Link to comment
Julf Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 But the answer to the question may or may not have real world implications. My dad had a k-car in the 1980s that felt like it was gonna 'splode any time it went above 90km/hr. Pretty sure the specs stated its top speed was at least twice that but one turn behind the wheel is all it took to disprove that "fact". Ah, manufacturer's claims and "facts" are rather different things. The only thing that matters is how the thing performs in the real world. Indeed. And, to hang on to the car analogy, what matters is what top speed my neighbour's car really does, not what he claims it does. Link to comment
REShaman Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Hi Richard, No need for you to apologize my friend. You are not among those who seem to believe their experience (or perspective) must be reflected in everyone else's. In my experience, those with confidence will tell me about *their* experience. Those who lack confidence will attempt to tell me about mine. Best regards, Barry Soundkeeper Recordings Barry Diament Audio My wife reading over my shoulder read your words and started to chuckle along with me. She was not even aware of what the larger dialogue was about. She was just appreciating the wisdom in your witty, wise and cogent observation that may be acknowledged about anyone, any time and specifically with how we represent our models of the world in relationship to Self and Other. As my wife, a licensed psychologist in private practice, and I are both couples relationship therapists among other modalities, you may imagine that listening attentively to what people say and what they do is in and out of our offices is essential. Differentiation is vital to the relationship and so is connecting. By connecting that does not necessarily mean agreeing with Other. Your observation, depending on the goals and outcomes one wishes to accomplish, is an essential awareness for entering the arena of relationships and participating by stepping on to common ground to explore how and what needs to be accomplished to arrive at one's destination (accomplishing goals) which includes being understood and understanding. Or as the Beatles wrote: The Love You Take Is The Love You Make. I am rambling, but you got to the point with precision and an economy of words. When words and actions do not match, I look to what one does not what one says. By your works are you known. Thank you for including me as a friend. The feeling is and has been mutual. And now back to the music and the many perspectives in attendance at this qwhazy and great forum. Best, Richard Link to comment
vinylphile Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Ah, manufacturer's claims and "facts" are rather different things. Indeed. And, to hang on to the car analogy, what matters is what top speed my neighbour's car really does, not what he claims it does. But isn't that what we're debating here? The measured vs real world performance of various formats? exaSound PlayPoint DM MkII with Uptone Audio JS-2 power supply; Horn Shoppe The Truth preamp; Coincident Frankenstein MkII mono blocs (mid/tweeter) and Dragon 211b mono blocs (woofers); Coincident Pure Reference Extreme MkII loudspeakers; Coincident cabling throughout...Analogue: Jean Nantais Ultimate Lenco turntable with Durand Kairos arm, Benz-Micro LPS cartridge; Coincident Statement phono stage Link to comment
chriss71 Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Something is really wrong with the supposed master tapes of CTTE, two albums recorded BEFORE CTTE by Yes show full high res information up to 46K while CTTE shows a serious buzzcutt at 22K and some type of signal at 30K. I honestly don't see how one can deny that either the master tapes were not used in the recent releases of CTTE or someone really screwed up at some point in the process of mixing\mastering of CTTE which did not happen in the previous 2 Yes albums Sorry to ask, but who have said, that the mastertapes were used.... Never ever (and that is valid for both, the AFZ SACD and the HDTracks Download). It's simple, the original master tapes is missed (nobody knows it, where it is) Albert Einstein: Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Link to comment
Julf Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 But isn't that what we're debating here? The measured vs real world performance of various formats? Maybe some people were debating that - but I was pointing out the established standard of measuring and specifying dynamic range versus arbitrary non-standard numbers. Measured performance is "real world" too - try telling the state trooper that the speed he just measured for you using his speed radar isn't "real world". Performance claims (such as my neighbour bragging about the top speed of his car) are not measurements, despite being all too frequent in the "real world". All I was saying is that if you are going to talk about the top speed of your car, you might be better off to use the same way to measure the speed as everybody else. Link to comment
vinylphile Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I would hazard a guess that most people have no idea what their car's top speed is because they've likely been nowhere near it...just like the theoretical and published dynamic range capabilities of the various formats which are not realized in real world situations... exaSound PlayPoint DM MkII with Uptone Audio JS-2 power supply; Horn Shoppe The Truth preamp; Coincident Frankenstein MkII mono blocs (mid/tweeter) and Dragon 211b mono blocs (woofers); Coincident Pure Reference Extreme MkII loudspeakers; Coincident cabling throughout...Analogue: Jean Nantais Ultimate Lenco turntable with Durand Kairos arm, Benz-Micro LPS cartridge; Coincident Statement phono stage Link to comment
Julf Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I would hazard a guess that most people have no idea what their car's top speed is because they've likely been nowhere near it...just like the theoretical and published dynamic range capabilities of the various formats which are not realized in real world situations... Just to clear up a misunderstanding - if you calculate the top speed of a car from the aerodynamic and power specs of a car, it is a "theoretical" value. If you actually measure it, it is not theoretical in any way. It is very much real. The "not realized in real world situations" applies more to something like the lowest 8 bits of 24-bit audio... Link to comment
REShaman Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Just for the record (no pun intended, but...) I know I misquoted The Beatle's lyrics in my previous post in this thread. I did so intentionally for a specific purpose (not worth getting into). And I may be the only person who gives a damn. So I can fall asleep tonight, the correct lyrics are "And in the end, the love you take Is equal to the love you make". Enjoy being close to the edge, whatever precipice you care to dangle from ;>}. Best, Richard Link to comment
swanlee Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Wow got banned at the Hoffman forums for saying I thought the MFSL CTTE sounded better than the AF SACD. Thought he was more open to opinions, guess not, really disappointing. Link to comment
chriss71 Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 *LOL* and the next one... Yeah, truth must hurt... Believe me @swanlee you are not the last one and not the first one... Take it easy... Albert Einstein: Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Link to comment
swanlee Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 *LOL* and the next one... Yeah, truth must hurt...Believe me @swanlee you are not the last one and not the first one... Take it easy... Funny how he considers an honest opinion "spamming" which is what he put as the reason for the ban. It was a single post in a thread as well, my only post of the day. No probs definitely an eye opener as to how he handles things, oh well no loss for me. Link to comment
REShaman Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Wow got banned at the Hoffman forums for saying I thought the MFSL CTTE sounded better than the AF SACD. Thought he was more open to opinions, guess not, really disappointing. Congratulations. It appears in some domains "Enjoy being close to the edge, whatever precipice you care to dangle from ;>}." has consequences, as long as you're OK about it, what else can one do? Speak your truth as you know it. Best, Richard Link to comment
swanlee Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Congratulations. It appears in some domains "Enjoy being close to the edge, whatever precipice you care to dangle from ;>}." has consequences, as long as you're OK about it, what else can one do? Speak your truth as you know it.Best, Richard Oh it certainly doesn't bother me, just found it all a bit shallow and self serving, that site gets alot of traffic and is mainly good for general music and release chatter apart from the Hoffman releases. Link to comment
Boris75 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I got Close to the Edge as I thought that, since it could generate a 13-page thread, it had to be a great album. Well, de gustibus et coloribus non disputandum, but I listened to it for the first time yesterday only to find out that it's really not my cup of tea. Link to comment
chriss71 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 de gustibus et coloribus non disputandum suum cuique Albert Einstein: Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Link to comment
swanlee Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Seems Steve Wilson has got a hold of the original multi tracks and is going to release a real 5.1 version along with a new remixed stereo version. given this we might actually get a legit high res release of this yet, to bad Hoffman does not have the skill set to do this as this was a completely wasted effort by him to just slightly clean up obvious non masters with no high res info and put it on SACD. Link to comment
REShaman Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 suum cuique tout ce qui brille n'est pas d'or ; >} Best, Richard Link to comment
barrows Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Seems Steve Wilson has got a hold of the original multi tracks and is going to release a real 5.1 version along with a new remixed stereo version. given this we might actually get a legit high res release of this yet, to bad Hoffman does not have the skill set to do this as this was a completely wasted effort by him to just slightly clean up obvious non masters with no high res info and put it on SACD. swanlee, can you share your source for this? Considering SW's great work on the King Crimson stuff, I am hoping this is true... The HDTracks' "Relayer" is pretty disappointing to me. SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
REShaman Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I got Close to the Edge as I thought that, since it could generate a 13-page thread, it had to be a great album. Well, de gustibus et coloribus non disputandum, but I listened to it for the first time yesterday only to find out that it's really not my cup of tea. "In matters of taste, there can be no disputes", c'est la verité! Best, Richard Link to comment
REShaman Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 swanlee, can you share your source for this? Considering SW's great work on the King Crimson stuff, I am hoping this is true... The HDTracks' "Relayer" is pretty disappointing to me. I was disappointed, too. Relayer was so close to the edge, it fell over into mediocracy. C'est domage! Enjoying the music, Richard Link to comment
boulderskies Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I got Close to the Edge as I thought that, since it could generate a 13-page thread, it had to be a great album. Well, de gustibus et coloribus non disputandum, but I listened to it for the first time yesterday only to find out that it's really not my cup of tea. I laughed at this. I think about half the 13 pages arent related to Close to the Edge tho...On the plus side, it may grow on you. Scott MacBook Pro, 16gb RAM, 500gb storage, McIntosh MA-6900, Paradigm Reference Signature 6 Towers, Cambridge Audio Magic Streamer 6, Mountain Lion, iTunes 11.0.X. Link to comment
fredhammersmith2 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 swanlee, can you share your source for this? Considering SW's great work on the King Crimson stuff, I am hoping this is true... The HDTracks' "Relayer" is pretty disappointing to me. tHE SOURCE: Yes - Close to the Edge 5.1 in October Is it a good source? I do not know. Link to comment
swanlee Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 swanlee, can you share your source for this? Considering SW's great work on the King Crimson stuff, I am hoping this is true... The HDTracks' "Relayer" is pretty disappointing to me. This is where I read it looks like it is the original stereo mix and a new stereo mix along with a 5.1 version, If the multi tracks are available then you can create a new master. Yes - Close to the Edge 5.1 in October I have just been told it is okay to tell you all about this at long last - so here goes. Featuring brand-new stereo & 5.1 mixes by Steven Wilson as well as some additional bonus material and the original stereo mix in glorious high resolution, "Close to the Edge" will be released in October this year. I cannot say too much more at this point in time, but will update this thread as & when I am able to do so. This has been a very long time in the making, but well worth the wait - the new mixes sound absolutely glorious! Link to comment
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