USB cable comparisons

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On 9/10/2018 at 3:25 PM, highstream said:

By Gekko, are you referring to https://gekkocables.com/products/digital links.html in London?  It's not easy to find with a google search from the States. You mention two choices, but I only see one shown on their site.

oh, sorry. the black USB cable is their entry level cable and it's not on their site yet.

the one on the site is what I call the full-blooded version and is the one I want to try to see if it surpasses the LS in its strengths. let's see how that goes

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2 hours ago, str-1 said:

I’m find it a little frustrating comparing three upmarket USB cables in my setup (see signature).  

 

Recent changes I have made to the system have cleaned things up considerably and I am now finding it harder to reliably tell the difference between these cables.  It feels like I have already removed further upstream some of the crud that these cables normally have variable success in dealing with.  The difference between these and a 1m long stock cable (which I have put a number of ferrites on) is also at times hard to hear.  

 

I won’t name the cables but the one I expected to perform the best based on reputation also happens to be the longest at 1.2m, although the signal and power lines run in separate shielded cables between the connectors.  The stock cable is 1m and the upmarket cable I expected to sound second best is 0.7m.  I have a third upmarket cable which is a little harder to include in the comparison because it is only 0.20m long.  Does the different lengths of these cables mean this isn’t a level playing field for comparison?  I have heard it said many times that USB cables should be as short as possible but I have no feel for how big an impact USB cable length would/could have on sound quality.  

 

Generally, what differences should I expect to hear with different lengths of the same cable?  In a really good clean transparent system should I expect to hear any difference between a 0.5m and a 1.2m cable?

there are many theories about lengths of digital cables. Steve Nugent had some interesting theories about coax digital, saying that there was a minimal length that they should have. I am not sure if his musings apply to USB cables, though. I always tried to compare cables of similar lengths to take that variable out of the picture.

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2 hours ago, str-1 said:

I’m find it a little frustrating comparing three upmarket USB cables in my setup (see signature).  

 

Recent changes I have made to the system have cleaned things up considerably and I am now finding it harder to reliably tell the difference between these cables.  It feels like I have already removed further upstream some of the crud that these cables normally have variable success in dealing with.  The difference between these and a 1m long stock cable (which I have put a number of ferrites on) is also at times hard to hear.  

 

I won’t name the cables but the one I expected to perform the best based on reputation also happens to be the longest at 1.2m, although the signal and power lines run in separate shielded cables between the connectors.  The stock cable is 1m and the upmarket cable I expected to sound second best is 0.7m.  I have a third upmarket cable which is a little harder to include in the comparison because it is only 0.20m long.  Does the different lengths of these cables mean this isn’t a level playing field for comparison?  I have heard it said many times that USB cables should be as short as possible but I have no feel for how big an impact USB cable length would/could have on sound quality.  

 

Generally, what differences should I expect to hear with different lengths of the same cable?  In a really good clean transparent system should I expect to hear any difference between a 0.5m and a 1.2m cable?

Differences between cables diminished somewhat once I started using the REGEN in my setup, which is why I emphatically suggest people give it a try (I have no association with Uptone).

still, the differences are there and it depends on how sensitive the person is to those changes to make messing with them worthwhile

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14 hours ago, tmtomh said:

Your point here is an excellent one - and you are quite right that humans often hear things that cannot be accounted for by measurements of equipment.

 

However, you seem to be seriously mistaken in what your argument here proves and does not prove. What it proves is that human perception is variable and influenced by many factors. What your argument does not prove is that if you hear something, it must be the result of an objective characteristic of the equipment that magically cannot be measured.

 

This is the number-one problem with arguments like yours: Confirmation bias, poor memory/recall of small audio details, cross-sensory perception, and a whole host of other physiological, neurological, and environmental factors all play into what we hear.

 

People who disagree with you are not claiming that you're lying or delusional - we all believe that you are hearing/perceiving differences. 

 

But the problem is that the differences you perceive are meaningless to the rest of us, because we don't have your ears, your brain, your particular combination of cross-sensory experiences, and so on. Measurement, math, and physics are objective - not because objective is the whole ballgame, but because objective measurements and objectively established scientific mechanisms are the only things we have that can be communicated from person to person, outside  the unique subjective environment that each of us represents.

 

I have zero interest in saying you don't hear what you say you hear. But I have a very strong interest in your claim (or implication) that others will hear what you hear if they buy the USB cable you've bought. Because that claim is, to be generous, lacking any support.

 

 

 

These are one and the same. As I noted above, it's not about whether you or I can hear something - I have no doubt you hear what you say you hear. It's about whether I will hear what you hear if I buy the same USB cable you have, and whether or not a USB cable you think is worse will sound better or the same to me. That's where your own experience is interesting to read about (and I appreciate you sharing it), but has no bearing on anyone else, unless one believes that what you hear is based on an objective characteristic of the USB cable that somehow cannot be measured. That's where the voodoo lies in these arguments.

 

 

Everyone here is expressing individual opinions. But some of those opinions are opinions about matters that are provable (or disprovable) and others are not. That's the difference.

wow. this has been busy. and actually an interesting read mostly being able to make it civil (though Sal really does need to learn some manners ;))

I am really tempted to enter this discussion, but I do believe, that, although fruitful, it is not part of the flow of this topic, although, honestly, helpful. And I do appreciate the tone with which it has been brought forward.

All I will only mention on this thread on this particular topic is that some people are assuming certain epistemological premises that I doubt they apply coherently in other aspects of their life. There has to be a level of commensurability for us to be even able to communicate with one another, so there has to be a epistemological presupposition  to make this even viable. Where we draw the line between that basis and what constitutes "nonsense" is an interesting discussion, but it at least opens the door for subjective experiences (a.k.a. "YMMV") to be possibly significant for other people.

This is an initial answer to what I consider to be the most articulate view that has been brought forward as espoused by tmtomh, and I would be glad to elaborate this in a thread that has the objective to discuss this field. Would someone be willing to start that thread?

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Just wanted to update you guys on my latest USB cable comparison:

I compared the FTA Callisto USB cable to the Light Harmonic Lightspeed 10G and the entry-level Gekko USB cables in my system. The Gekko had replaced the Lightspeed in my system because of a more resolved and quiet midrange. Nonetheless, the LF and HF of the Lightspeed were better than the Gekko and I started to look for something that would have the best of both worlds. I had the opportunity to get to know this cable and can now say that I found what I was looking for. It did take a while though.
The first cable I received was clearly inferior to both my cables and after a burn-in process I concluded that there either had to be a defect or it was simply plain bad. I reached out and they were extremely forthcoming in sending me a new one, trusting that I would compare both and send either one or both back, the latter in case it was not a defect.
After receiving the second one I inserted it without any burn-in into the system and compared right away with the Lightspeed, since that was the one which would need to be surpassed on all levels to make it worth my while. Right from the start it was on par with the LS, which was very surprising, since all USB cables have benefited from burn-in here at home, which bode well for a future comparison. 150 + hours later I sat down to do the real comparison and here are my findings:

• much better LF than the LS. not only deeper, but more accurate and, at the same time, more natural. transient attack was on the same level, but now had a more real texture and body
• mids were far more resolved, more calm, settled and poised. I gained considerable depth, a little bit more even than with the Gekko, which had been its major selling point for me. texture was more refined and even tone was better.
• the whole sound picture was now more integrated and cohesive
• HF on the LS, which had always been unsurpassed, now sounded slightly smeared, more specifically in the HF bloom and decay of harmonics, which now were more natural and well-reproduced.

Needless to say, that I won't be taking this out of my system, unless I find a worthy competitor. The Callisto definitely took away the itch and completely dethroned a cable that I have been using for almost 6 years. It is one level above any other USB cable I have had the chance to listen to in my system. Of course, ymmv, but I would strongly suggest anyone looking for a top-level USB cable to give this one a look.

Hope this helps someone. I do know it won't help me sell my Lightspeed, but I'll find another use for it.

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30 minutes ago, Blake said:

 

Terrific write up and a great description of the sonic impacts.  How much is the Callisto?

 

oops, forgot to mention that. 750 Euro (app. US$850) for 1m. not cheap, but again, less than the cable it clearly surpassed.

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11 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Christoph,

do you or one of your audiophile friends have experience with a MacbookPro USB out to Callisto or does Callisto need an expensive server to shine?

Thanks

 

Matt

 

In my experience, the inferior the server the more important the USB cable is. With the uptone the differences between cables were not in the same degree as before, although there were still definite differences.

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7 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Thanks,

with uptone you mean regen?

 

Matt

sorry, that's it. ?

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2 hours ago, Sal1950 said:

Absolutely.  Something is going seriously wrong with either the DAC or cable for the sound of  0&1's to change ????

Hi @Sal1950

We've been down this road, haven't we? Please, just don't. Appreciate it. 👍🏼

Happy Valentines to you, too. 😘

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2 hours ago, Sal1950 said:

Let the visitors here be enlightened with a taste of reality.

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/04/measurements-usb-cables-for-dacs.html

bye, bye. 😘

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On 5/7/2021 at 12:06 AM, AnotherSpin said:

 

The better the combination of components in an audio system, the less difference in the "sound" of the cables can be perceived. Conversely, in a random set of poorly matched components, the difference in the "sound" of the cables may be more noticeable.

respectfully, I find that my experience tends to be the opposite: the better (more true-to-source) the combination of components the more the difference in cables will be heard/felt. however, I do agree that the type of cable that will "work" in the system will be very different.