LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player

[Liam]

3 hours ago, F208Frank said:

Hello fellow Lumin users. I wanted to ask do you guys feel the Roon App sounds better when using the Lumin device or the Lumin App?

 

Thank you!

I asked Bluesound if their BluOS app influenced sound quality of the Node 2i with regard to what device it was installed on, because I thought it made a difference, an iPad Pro thought to be better than an iPad 2, and they said no.  My 'Pro' bias was instantly cured.

 

Based on that advice I can't say why the Lumin app versus any other controller would be different?  If there was a difference it would be likely related to the stream source rather than the app surely?  

[Liam]

Has anyone tried this linear power supply with a Lumin UI Mini, or compared with other alternatives available?  Looks like a thoughtful design and build.  https://www.plixirpower.com/products/copy-of-dc-power-supply-for-audio-streamer-and-dac

[Liam]

1 hour ago, thingswelike said:

Roon isn't really an app - it's a whole system of server, processor and app. If features dsp processing, upsampling/downsampling and other features, so it definitely has the possibility of sounding different.
You are right that UPnP apps shouldn't sound different from one another though.

Ah thank you I'm not at all familiar with Roon.  Apples and oranges then and as you say not surprising there might be a difference.

[Liam]

On 1/10/2020 at 1:35 AM, wklie said:

 

[Liam]

1 hour ago, Kray said:

I do have that turned on but 

Problem is not the playlist section. It’s getting a full album INTO the playlist while viewing the album with all its tracks listed.

 

basically if I’m viewing the album with tracks.... I have to back out to all albums view, then long press to add the whole album. I want to be able to add the whole album to the playlist from the track listing view of the album

I hope I understand you correctly.  If you have double tap engaged, click/highlight the first track, when the tracks are displayed as above,  and several option buttons should open at the bottom of the page.  One of them allows you to select all tracks and you can then decide with the other buttons to do things like to play your selection immediately, or add to the bottom of an existing playlist.  You can also decide to insert a new selection after the current track playing.  You can also when highlighting just select the tracks you want to play and follow with any of the options in the  buttons at the bottom.

[Liam]

Has anyone tried ferrites on the ethernet cable serving the Lumin UI Mini?  I would be interested to hear your experience.

[Liam]

@wkliePeter I am out of my depth here.  Can the benefits of the LeedH volume be fully enjoyed when an external dac is used, for example MHDTLabs Orchid Dac.  Does adjusting the volume have any deleterious effect on the performance of the dac?  Are there any particular compatibility factors to be taken into account when selecting a power amplifier?  By the way I am using the UI Mini.  Thanks.  

[Liam]

11 hours ago, wklie said:

@Liam 1. Yes.  See this post:

 

2. You may compare the Leedh digital volume against the pre-amp analog volume and let us know which sounds better to you.

 

3. I don't think there are compatibility concerns, but in extreme cases some setups could have too much gain (limiting the usable volume range) while others have too little gain (not loud enough).

Thanks Peter for the clarifications. I am unable to turn the volume of my valve integrated full on due to noise, but I have turned it higher than normal and with the volume limiter set to 100% and normal listening level of around 60 on the circular app volume I am enjoying the result. Music is barely audible at 1 on the circular volume, so settings are probably optimum in the circumstances.  I upgraded my dac chip in the last week and with the V13 firmware upgrade as well there is a lot going on here, but I will be continuing with this setup while I investigate trading my integrated for a superior power amp. Despite my setup not being optimum I perceive welcome overall improvements.  Thanks to all for making this beneficial technology available, and at no cost will endear Lumin to many. 

[Liam]

Leedh digital volume has raised my system performance significantly. Overall clarity is very noticeably improved.  Bass has much better ‘form’ and relationship with the overall frequency response. There is great life and rhythmic vitality in a natural unforced way without unwanted price paid. Volume is at 100% in settings and my amp pre volume set much higher than normal, and with the app circular Volume set to 60 I can listen comfortably down the hallway in the next room.  Even thus removed from the system the improvements are clearly audible. 

[Liam]

This makes interesting reading as it differentiates between the same cables used in two different applications with very different reported results.

http://www.audiodrom.net/en/special-edition-reviews/104-ethernet-rj-45-cables-shootout

[Liam]

7 hours ago, wklie said:

@Liam That article is indeed interesting.  On testing as "a router cable", the test actually found the cheapest cable to the best.  Simply looking at the photos it seems that only the cheapest cable does not have metal connectors (which need to be avoided).  All the other expensive cable are shielded and have metal connectors (which I do not recommend using), if I observed correctly.

You will see from my signature below my setup.  Being an inconvenient distance from my router to cable directly I opted for a wifi extender and a 3mtr. ethernet cable from that to the UI Mini.  I opted for a Kasimo Cat 8, with all the bells and whistles of shielding etc. and with metal connectors.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/KASIMO-Ethernet-Network-Internet-Connector-Black/dp/B07RKGMHG6/ref=sr_1_3

 

However, I find a significant improvement of sound quality by placing three snap on ferrites at the UI Mini input.  For example Vladimir Horowitz rehearsing prior to his piano performance at Carnegie Hall....with the ferrites more clearly delineated notes and improved dynamics.  Without the ferrites a more 'lumped' sound and sounding somewhat 'smothered'.  Perhaps again supporting your assertion.

 

I think there are cables with metal connector at one end only thus allowing for a discontinuity of the screen at the receiving end.  Might one of these be a best of both worlds response to your concerns?   

[Liam]

40 minutes ago, hoppy100 said:

Hello everyone,

Has any users of Leedh processing had a problem when it is engaged of a static pop when changing files, example going from one downloaded full file to another album.  I get a static-like pop in my speakers every time.  I have my preamp at unity gain and set the playback volume with the Leedh volume control in the Lumin app.  If I turn off the Leedh the problem is non-exsistent.

My dac is the Denafrips Terminator.  Peter said it may be dac related, so if anyone can chime in with their thoughts, it would be helpful. I would like to use the Leedh as it sounds great, but can not risk damage to my Usher BE 20 diamonds while using this upgrade.

 

Cheers

I was intending to bring a wince inducing crack from my right speaker when file resolution changes when streaming.  I use Leedh and want to continue using it, but I should confirm if it happens when neither dac or Leedh is controlling volume.

[Liam]

7 hours ago, wklie said:

 

For DAC that exhibits such behavior, you should use an analog preamp and cease to rely only on Lumin digital volume immediately.

 

I'm saying this for the third time.  To repeat my post #2657 and #2708 to you: Please turn down the analog preamp volume to usual, then stop using the Lumin digital volume by setting Volume Control to Off.  This will reset the Lumin volume and Max Volume % to 100.

 

This behavior does not occur with Lumin analog output products, and has not been reported by users of other brands of DAC, although I'm sure there are other DAC that behaves similarly.

@wklieIs there any possibility of a fix in the future?  I would like to continue using Leedh.  The convenience of remote volume control is also a great feature. Thanks. 

[Liam]

30 minutes ago, wklie said:

@Liam If a DAC produces audible anomaly during resolution or format change, any fix would probably need to come from the DAC.

 

If this were a bug in Lumin firmware, all external DAC users would experience the same problem.

Oh well that’s it then 🙁 thanks for your very prompt attention. 

[Liam]

3 hours ago, barrows said:

Guys, I am not a Lumin user, but I can sympathize with @wklie's point of view here.  It sounds like the DACs which are having problems while using the LeedH VC in a Lumin streamer are not properly applying a mute signal when the DAC needs to re-establish a lock when a file stops playing, and then a new file starts.  A DAC should mute its signal anytime a reliable lock is lost from the incoming signal.  This mute function must be very quick, and it must be reliable.  Some of us who build DIY DACs are well aware of how important a properly functioning mute capability is.  With many DACs problems will occur especially when changing sample rates from file to file, but it can also happen when playback stops for one file, and then begins with another file, and the DAC tries to re-establish a lock.

If one uses Roon as playback software, there is a feature in Roon which may help some.  In the device set up there is a function called Resync Delay, this allows one to set a time where Roon will send silence to the DAC to allow the DAC a certain amount of time to re-establish lock with the  signal.  I typically set this to 500 mS.  I do not know if Lumin's own software has such a feature, but it is worth looking into.  

I would also suggest that anytime one wants to experiment with using a software based VC, one first do so with an analog VC control in place, set to a low level, just to make sure everything works with your DAC without any problems, before fully relying on the software VC.  Especially test what happens when a playlist includes different sample rates, as often the problems can be especially bad when the DAC is re-establishing a lock with a new sample rate, or DSD.

No company can test their streaming product and verify "perfect" operation with every DAC. 

@barrows Thank you for that very clear information as to why some of us have this issue with Leedh VC.  I noticed the previous poster with the issue was using a Denafrips Terminator and in my own case it is a MHDT Orchid DAC, both R2R design.  Is this relevant at all in your opinion.  Finally is it possible that the appropriate dac delay could be implemented by a firmware update?

[Liam]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

I cannot speak specifically to those DACs as I have no direct experience with them.  As to R2R, that specifically would pose no problem, as long as the manufacturer incorporated a mute circuit correctly, but in these cases it appears they have not.  But, to look at it a different way, for example, a DAC made with an ESS chip can usually just rely on the mute circuit built into the chip itself, making development easier, whereas something like the Denafripps which uses a discrete conversion would require the manufacturer to develop a good muting circuit on their own.  Often these mute circuits can be incorporated into the USB interface, but then they would not work for the other inputs.  In my DIY DSC-2 for example, the mute circuit is on the (discrete) converts board, but is controlled by a mute signal coming from the USB interface, and it took the Amanero folks a long time to get their software just right to have the mute work correctly (in order to avoid loud pops at start up, etc).

It is also worth noting that mixed sample rate playlists can be a challenge for any DAC.

 

There is a tendency for streamer makers to blame the DAC, and for DAC makers to blame the streamer, as there are no strict standards of how to connect these things together, and exactly what "should" be required, it is not surprising that both sides often need to make software changes in order to accommodate each other's needs.  At Sonore a lot of software development time is taken up by trying to guarantee good operation with many different DACs and their different softwares-it is a difficult and complex process, and throwing digital volume control into the mix magnifies all of the potential problems.  On the customer side, it would be nice if all components always worked perfectly together all the time, but given all the potential combinations that is just not possible.  The best approach for the audiophile, is always to err on the side of caution with new combinations until one is sure things are working together well.  

@barrows again thank you so much for taking time to give so much information. 

[Liam]

3 hours ago, wklie said:

A few users have tried changing the fuse, and they are happy with their choices.  Changing the fuse does not void Lumin warranty.

 

The Lumin fuse is a 2A fast blow (not applicable to Lumin M1).

 

If I remember correctly, for the world first review of Lumin X1, the reviewer installed his own favorite fuse before he started to review it.  He did not do an A/B comparison of the fuse though.

@wklie What length is the fuse please?

[Liam]

17 minutes ago, BlueSkyy said:

Plasma is still the best out there IMHO.  Blackest blacks of all the technologies.  My 20 y.o. Panasonic rocks.

Amen.  I am not looking forward to the day when my Panasonic plasma set goes to plasma TV grave yard.  They are no more.

[Liam]

When I play an album from Qobuz and decide to add it to my favourites in the Lumin app, by click/holding the album icon  top left it does not appear in favourites in the app, but does appear in Qobuz favourites. Help appreciated.

[Liam]

Just made a discovery re above post. Yes the icons appear in Qobuz favourites, but when I clicked on all of them from this morning to reveal the tracks the heart icon, which confirms the album is a favourite, was not illuminated pink. I then clicked on the heart icon for each album illuminating it, and those favourites appeared in the Lumin app. Immediately.

[Liam]

I think this is the last in the series about this issue. I also find that say after a search of an artist that if an album in the search is put into favourites in the Lumin app it goes into favourites in the app and also into Qobuz with the heart ticked pink in Qobuz as expected. It seems only that the top left corner album icon does not fully communicate with Qobuz. 

[Liam]

@wklieYes that all works, but as I do often, like to listen to a few tracks of an album in the search results before deciding to add an album to favourites and without having to return to the main search view, what I am finding is that the ‘add to favourites’ option in the top left icon does not fully work. What does happen is that the icon for the album selected appears in favourites in the Qobuz app, but no amount of refreshes works to bring that album into Lumin app favourites. What only works at that stage is to open the album from favourites in the Qobuz app and tick the ‘heart’ option to turn the heart pink, as despite the icon being in Qobuz favourites view, the heart has not been selected.  There is a disconnect between the apps. 

[Liam]

On 10/12/2020 at 3:02 PM, FIndingit said:

If you press Add To Favorite there, doesn’t it place the track ”Honeysuckle Rose” into Favourites/Tracks folder?
 

Isn’t this window just for choosing a particular track as a favourite, not a whole album. 
 

And the heart doesn’t turn pink in Qobuz before all the tracks have been selected = the whole album. 

You are correct.  I think I had a wrong expectation for the track to appear in favourites. It does appear in tracks, which did not occur to me. 🙄

[Liam]

Tunein Radio stations are missing in Lumin app despite being signed in, but all seems normal when Tunein accessed in browser. Help appreciated. Thanks. 

[Liam]

3 hours ago, vrdsp0 said:

@Liam you need first to flag the radios you want to listen to as favorites in your Tunein account for example through the browser.

Then you need to sync favorites through the Lumin app (LUMIN options>radios setting>update radios)

@vrdsp0thanks for reply. I did already have various stations in my Tunein Library (see below screen shot).  I’m sure I used to be able to see them in Lumin app. Maybe I am mixing with my Node2i in the other system. Because I was getting  “bad Tunein login” in Lumin app I reset the Tunein password and used that new one in the Lumin app, but still the same message and of course no stations appeared, although Lumin app indicates I am logged in. Perhaps it is related to Cebolla’s post above, though I used Tunein this morning via BluOS Node2i.  I am located in Ireland.