USB-S/PDIF or DAC or...?

[pityerszer]

hello!

 

I have the following setup:

- 'GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3H' motherboard with integrated 'Realtek ALC889A' HD Audio Codec (ALC889) - SPDIF-OUT supports 16/20/24-bit 32k/44.1k/48k/88.2k/96k/192kHz sample rate

- 'harman/kardon HK 3490' stereo receiver with 'AKM AK4589' DAC but some people say it has 'AK4384'. (I am not sure but both included in the service manual)

- 'KEF Q300' bookshelf speakers

- optical toslink cable between desktop's sound card and receiver's digital input using the AKM DAC

- as Realtek HD audio driver does not support 88.2kHz I use win7 default audio driver instead

- Win7/x64, latest Foobar2000/WASAPI, with optimal settings, lossless/HD audio files

 

I am thinking about an upgrade for a max.$200 budget in order to get better sound quality but still have the ability to play 192/24 (176.4kHz support would also be welcome):

 

1. replacing cheap cables to HQ cables

 

2. 'Gigabyte 12CR1-1SPINO-11R' SPDIF In And Out Audio HD Cable (cheap option)

-> I could switch to digital coax from optical cable

 

3. USB-S/PDIF converter (hiface2, v-link192 etc.)

-> asynchronous, class 2 USB might result superior audio quality

-> I also might use coax cable on the other end

-> I would still use HK's DAC

-> I could have 176.4 support

-> get rid of REALTEK

 

4. USB DAC

-> asynchronous, class 2 USB might result superior audio quality

-> DAC might result better audio quality compared to integrated HK's DAC

-> get rid of REALTEK

 

So my question is: which option or which combination of options would you recommend? Or do I have any better choice? Thank you in advance!

[Guidof]

What don't you like about your current sound quality? What would you like to achieve? What kind of music do you listen to? How is your current listening environment (room? Desktop? Etc) set up?

 

Guido F.

[mav52]

What don't you like about your current sound quality? What would you like to achieve? What kind of music do you listen to? How is your current listening environment (room? Desktop? Etc) set up?

 

Guido F.

 

Good questions Guidof

[Audio_ELF]

So my question is: which option or which combination of options would you recommend? Or do I have any better choice? Thank you in advance!

Either (a) a big pile of CDs or (b) a HiFace 2 and a slightly smaller pile of CDs.

 

Eloise

[pityerszer]

Thanks for your questions! First of all I would like to get rid of jitter as much as possible. Actually it is hard to say why I am not happy with my current system but I think I will never be satisfied with it... ;-) I would say the sound quality is not warm and lively and sometimes I don't feel the stereo soundstage enough. I mostly listen to all kinds of classical and rock music. The living room is 6x4m (20x13 feet) but unfortunately the orientation of speakers is not optimal (I cannot make it better at the moment).

 

 

To reflect on Eloise's answer: Last time I listened to an audio CD played on my budget Pioneer DV-220V-K and it sounded better than the same music in FLAC. (The DVD player is connected via coax cable.) I would like to achieve at least the same quality on the computer because I don't have a big pile of CDs... so I am considering (b) if that makes an audible difference

[Musicophile]

Thanks for your questions! First of all I would like to get rid of jitter as much as possible. Actually it is hard to say why I am not happy with my current system but I think I will never be satisfied with it... ;-) I would say the sound quality is not warm and lively and sometimes I don't feel the stereo soundstage enough. I mostly listen to all kinds of classical and rock music. The living room is 6x4m (20x13 feet) but unfortunately the orientation of speakers is not optimal (I cannot make it better at the moment).

 

 

To reflect on Eloise's answer: Last time I listened to an audio CD played on my budget Pioneer DV-220V-K and it sounded better than the same music in FLAC. (The DVD player is connected via coax cable.) I would like to achieve at least the same quality on the computer because I don't have a big pile of CDs... so I am considering (b) if that makes an audible difference

 

Soundstage is one of the things that can be improved by using a jitter-reducing USB-SPDIF converter. My BelCanto mlink (highly recommended, but slightly over your budget) did a big change on my system. "lively" per se won't necessarily change, but the increased precision you'd get from a good USB-SPDIF could take you at least in the right direction.

 

"Warm" is an attribute that is more likely to be influenced on the analog side.

[Guidof]

OK, this may not make your day, but the location and orientation of your speakers, location of your listening chair(s), along with room treatment, are likely to yield the most difference in sound quality. But you indicate that you can't change those.

 

You also hint that sound from a CD player pleased you more than music from your sound card, and that perhaps suggests that Eloise's recommendation is on the right track.

 

However, There is nothing wrong with FLAC files ripped uncompressed or downloaded from a decent site, provided your streaming device is good enough -- and you hint that your sound card is not. Perhaps springing for a network player such as a Logitech Squeezebox Touch (now discontinued but still available) might work for you, but it'll cost you a bit more than the $200 you set as a max.

 

I'd suggest dealing with speakers and room first, which may be the most bang for the least buck.

 

Best luck!

 

Guido F.

[Audio_ELF]

To reflect on Eloise's answer: Last time I listened to an audio CD played on my budget Pioneer DV-220V-K and it sounded better than the same music in FLAC. (The DVD player is connected via coax cable.) I would like to achieve at least the same quality on the computer because I don't have a big pile of CDs... so I am considering (b) if that makes an audible difference

 

Well, if the transport plays back better than your computer then it's definitely the computer you need to tweak not buy another DAC (or speakers, etc).

 

A USB - SPDIF converter will probably be the best use of your money.

 

As I recall that Harmon Kardon also has some room correction possibilities so maybe worth checking these settings are the same between both inputs.

 

Finally what playback and ripping software do you use. Maybe worth checking out Chris' setup guides for dbPowerAmp (for ripping) and J.River for playback. Actually I said this was a "finally" step, but you should probably do this and the preceding step before spending money!

 

Eloise

[pityerszer]

Bel Canto mLink seems to be really impressive but a bit too expensive for me. It also has BNC output like a model of hiFace Two. Would you recommend for me to choose a USB to SPDIF converter with BNC output instead of coax/optical? Sorry for my silly question: will I be able to connect it to HK3490? And how much does a decent BNC cable cost?

 

Thank you Guido F. for your valuable recommendations! I have made a sketch about the location and orientation of speakers. I hope it is not as bad as possible…

Squeezebox Touch is also another considerable option which also might be used together with hiFace described in John Darko's review. But I am afraid I cannot afford it at the moment.

 

Eloise, I use EAC for ripping and Foobar2000 with WASAPI plug-in for playback but I will have a look the ones you listed. Also need to check whether the receiver has some room correction possibilities because I have not heard about it so far.

 

I am glad you have suggested to get a USB-SPDIF converter instead of USB DAC (at least from my budget) because it means that the DAC integrated in the receiver is all right.

[Blake]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2961[/ATTACH]

 

 

Is it possible to re-orient your system? IMHO, your speakers should be placed along the North wall and listening couch/chair to the middle of the room, facing North, with speakers placed away from the North wall, not right up against the wall. I think you can get dramatically better sound just by rearranging your layout. And best of all, these improvements are free.

 

See these links for further information about good starting points for room setup:

 

Cardas Audio

 

Positioning the Listening Spot - GIK Acoustics

[Guidof]

Your sketch is fine. In order to find the first reflection points, sit in the preferred listening spot and have a friend hold a mirror on the side walls/windows as he/she walks parallel to them. The point where you can see your tweeter's reflection in the mirror is for all practical purposes the first reflection point. Place sound absorbing material at that point, best if tall enough to catch not only the tweeter's reflection but also that of the entire speaker. Be as generous in the surface area of this material as you can.

In your situation, you probably don't need anything for the right speaker, as there is no wall there. But try something temporary, symmetrical with what you place on the left. Lack of symmetry is of course problematic, but you can only work with what you have.

Experiment! I hope you enjoy the process and the result.

 

Guido F.

[Guidof]

Blake is right. If you could reorient speakers and couch, you would likely have a much better, symmetrical, setup.

 

But if you can't do that, try at least some absorption on the left side.

 

Guido F.

[Blake]

OP- sorry I read quickly through the thread and missed your comment about not being able to rearrange the positioning of your speakers. You should still look at the links I provided so that when you are able to rearrange your setup, you have some good information to start with.

[pityerszer]

Thank you for your recommendations regarding orientation. Actually I know Cardas Audio and I would love to rearrange my setup but I can't at the moment. But I will give it a try later just to check what I miss with this setup. One of the reasons why I decided to get the KEF Q300 was that it was told that it provided a really good soundstage even in the not optimal positioning...

 

On the left we have big windows so I am afraid I could only use the curtains as sound absorbing material, do you think it will help? Also I checked that the tweeter was above my ear level by about 15cm (0.5 foot) while seated. Is this OK?

[Guidof]

Though it's difficult to predict, curtains on the window should help, especially if they are thick enough. Perhaps you might experiment by temporarily hanging a blanket or something similar. Keep in mind that you're fighting two factors, a highly reflecting left side (glass), and an asymmetrical setting. To achieve a good soundstage under these circumstances is going to be difficult. But with a bit of experimenting you may ameliorate things. As to the tweeter height, you may try varying the speakers angle with the vertical and see if that has any effect. Ditto for the speakers toe in or out. Personally, I think that when it comes to speakers and seat placement, rules are fine as a starting point but trial and error work best to fine tune things not only for soundstage but also for tonal balance.

 

Hope you have fun in the process!

 

Guido F.