HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

[ericuco]

what would be the ideal NAA device.

 

For me, the Sonore microRendu checks off most boxes given that it was specifically built with all (most) of these considerations in mind.

 

For instance, there are number of ways to power the device. It runs Linux which is usually a fairly lean OS (and free). It has basically an Uptone Regen unit built-in to address USB issues.

 

Plus, it is preloaded with the software so pretty much plug & play.

[ericuco]

Hello, I am not sure if this is the right thread to post this to, so if it is not, please pardon me and point me in the right direction!

 

If it is... I recently set up macmini/HQPlayer/Roon/mR feeding my Bricasti upsampling pcm to 192 and dsd to 5.6. Regardless which format i play, mid track, the music stops and i hear loud white noise. I've restarted all services/devices, and still occurs mid tracks. I tried roon/mR and it works fine.

 

Any idea what's going on?

 

Might consider posting over on:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonicorbiter-naa-output-mode-27274/

[ericuco]

Are the cubox specific NAA images still available? Ordered an i4Pro a few days ago and would be grateful for a link. The old links I followed in some writeups don't seem to be active.

 

Otherwise I'll do a minimal install of Debian Stretch, which is what I've been using on an old laptop to test this type of setup. Sounds great so far.

 

The Cubox-i image is located from the Signalyst website at:

 

https://www.signalyst.eu/bins/naa/images/

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[ericuco]

Current set-up: i5 3.4 gHz quad core 8 gb memory PC w/ HQP Ubuntu > Gustard X20u DAC > upsample to DSD256 w/ -xtr-2s/ DSD5v2 256+fs

 

Next step: NAA between PC & DAC utilizing existing mid 2011 Mac Mini (noisy option) or ???

To the CuBox owners out there using HQPlayer NAA:

I would use the CuBox with Ubuntu, connect to Plasma tv with HDMI & stream Netflix in addition to audio listening: existing music files & Tidal streaming to come from PC upsampled by HQP.

 

Is CuBox-i1 1 core 512 mb memory w/ 32 bit 800 Mbps adequate for use as NAA between server & DAC & Netflix streaming? Or is the 1 gb memory w/ 64 bit 800 Mbps worth the extra $$ ? What improvement did you hear from this quiet small computer ?

 

Any iPad2 remote apps or Win 10 laptop remote apps that you like to use with this type of set-up ?

 

Thanks in advance for any comments.

 

Based on Miska's recommendation at the time (several years ago), I was using the Cubox-i4Pro unit as a NAA only. Some of reasons to go with something like a Cubox-i are for noise reduction - no fan, no HDD, low power requirement (5V), ethernet connection (isolation from noisy main computer), ability to use LPS - making for a very low noise platform feeding your DAC. Whereas with a Mac Mini, you usually have a fan, HDD and a switching power supply ... there are means around these things but it costs $$$ in addition to the cost of the Mac Mini.

 

Please note that if you decide to go with the Cubox-i, Miska's canned NAA image for Cubox-i does not allow you to modify anything (e.g. install TV apps). In fact, you cannot even log into the Cubox-i at all. So, if you want to add apps, etc., you will mostly like need to install Linux, etc.

[ericuco]

7 hours ago, baconbrain said:

 

Could you provide me with the link for the NAA image? Thx.

 

The various NAA images can be downloaded from https://www.signalyst.eu/bins/naa/

[ericuco]

2 minutes ago, baconbrain said:

 

Thanks, not sure why I struggle to find the right downloads on the Signalyst Site ... ☺️

 

The link is provided at the very bottom of the page under the section Network Audio Daemon: 3.5.6

 

https://www.signalyst.com/consumer.html

[ericuco]

23 minutes ago, baconbrain said:

So I created the image on a usb and powered up the device. When watching the boot up process everything seems to be ok. (ifconfig is also showing an ip address). Unfortunately HQPlayer Desktop is not finding the NAA, regardless if one try’s  IP v4 or v6. Ideas?

Maybe a silly question but do you have "the device" connected to your DAC? If the NAA is not connected to the DAC then HQP does not see the NAA, at least that is what I have found. Sometimes my mRendu has problems connecting to my DAC and when that happens HQP does not recognize the NAA.

 

Also, have you changed the HQP settings to look for a NAA?

[ericuco]

6 hours ago, baconbrain said:

 

Didn‘t see the Mutec on the Signalyst recommended HW list, could that be the problem? 

 

From what I can tell that Mutec is a reclocker, not a DAC, at least in the conventional sense. So my guess is that is your issue.

 

Do you have a more conventional DAC that you can try?

[ericuco]

1 hour ago, Outlaw said:

Would there be any advantge to running a wired router.Thinking of running a wired router to my hqplayer pc,roon rock pc and the intel nuc naa.Then connecting my wireless router to wired router for wireless.?????

I hope you mean switches and not routers. Typically you only have one router in a home network. Multiple routers would probably cause issues. 
 

In my system, I have a switch which connects my music server (HQP Desktop & Roon Server), NAS and HQP NAA (opticalRendu). The switch is also connected to a wireless access point which in turn provides WiFi connection to the rest of my network and Internet.

[ericuco]

25 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

Okay didn't know you could hook a switch to modem before router or wifi access point.

 

For most home networks the order should be:

 

coax cable from ISP > modem > router > other equipment (switch, wifi access point, NAS, music server, NAA, etc.)

 

Note that modem, router & wifi might all be contained in one box from your ISP. You can use separate boxes for each, really up to you and what the ISP allows you to do.

 

The combinations of the "other equipment" is almost endless where you can have numerous branches stemming out from your router leading out to one or more switches that could branch to even more switches and equipment. Or out to wifi access points that again branch out further.

 

You probably want all of your audio equipment connected to a single (high quality as Miska mentioned) switch so that the music related data is only traveling in & out of the one switch (branch). This is not a requirement though as you might have say a NAS unit located elsewhere on another branch of your network. It really all depends on how your equipment is laid out throughout your house. Lots of games you can play.

 

[ericuco]

5 hours ago, cat6man said:

I can confirm that the latest NAA cubox image works fine with the opticalRendu.

Just remember to go to HQPe configuration page and re-select (and apply) the correct Network Audio backend device, which is now named "naa: XMOS USB....." here.

 

Thanks Jussi!

 

 

I tried the NAA Cubox Rendu image with my opticalRendu and couldn’t get it to connect to HQP Desktop. The NAA never showed up under Settings. Tried different things with DAC (Holo Cyan DSD) - disconnect/connect USB & reboot, etc. - but never got it to work.

 

Put the original Sonore card back in & everything promptly connected as usual.

[ericuco]

1 hour ago, cat6man said:

 

did its ip address show up in a network scan?

 

fyi........i was using hqpe running under audiolinux, accessing hqpe via web interface on port 8088.......on config page, there were 3 naa: options available (naa:usb, naa:hdmi and naa:spdif though only the first is available on the oRendu)

 

I didn't do a network scan but the light on the Mikrotik switch indicated that there was a connection established.

[ericuco]

54 minutes ago, bobflood said:

Thanks, I downloaded Etcher. When I try to select the NAA image the field under both the Download and HQP storage bin I have is blank. Is the file format accepted by Etcher? It doesn't show 7Z files on the front page list.

I think you need to unzip the NAA image first. 7z is a compressed file format. 
https://www.7-zip.org/

 

Typically you want the .img file. 

 

[ericuco]

14 minutes ago, higginsd said:

The downloadable raspberry images from Signalyst website are complete bootable images with NAA support? Will they work together with a HiFiberry digital output board via optic toslink to a Pro-Ject PreBox S2 digital?

 

Generally, these images are bootable Linux versions with HQP NAA loaded for the specific devices. They are plug & play in that you cannot log-in to the device. At least that how I used it for my Cubox several years ago.

 

Once you download the image, you need to unzip it (7-zip) and then write the image to a SD card using Etcher or similar. I think a 4GB card works as a minimum.

[ericuco]

1 hour ago, AudioDoctor said:

Question from a total noob about these things here...

 

How difficult is it to get a Raspberry Pi4 up and running as an NAA endpoint for HQPlayer? Or Roon?

If you use one of @Miska NAA images, then it is simple to do. Just download image, unzip file, flash image to SD card using something like etcher.

[ericuco]

19 minutes ago, luisma said:

@Miska

Hi Jussi, an NAA only service endpoint running on intel Celeron with 4 cores and 4 threads on archlinux, it won't use more than 15% of the CPU under DSD512

I know you advise on HQPe not to do core isolation etc. as you do your own core balancing on your app that is crystal clear

 

For the NAA, it seems it does prefers one core, I'm using only one core, no HT and no Turbo for the networkaudiod service, it works just fine, would you advise against using this specific design? I just imagine subjectively that encasing the networkaudiod service to only one core will remove the inter core processes and threading, "focusing" the daemon more on just one core and not allowing "distracting" thread process to be running.

 

Note I say I imagine, I have really no clue how it works on your app that's why I'm asking

 

thank you

 

Luis

All of the heavy computing is done by the HQP server (HQPe or HQP Desktop).
 

The NAA does not do much (any) processing other than take the data received from the server over the network and pass the data to the DAC (via USB in most cases). That is why the NAA computer can be minimal, usually very quiet mechanically (no spinning HDD) and electrically (low power) so you have a high quality (low noise) signal feeding the DAC.

[ericuco]

13 minutes ago, hykhleif said:

greetings

 

I wonder if I can get some advice

 

I only listen to tidal now 

 

set up

 

chord mojo--- avid integra--- harbth 5shl plus 40th anniversary

 

Avid Integra amp it has no remote control

 

my dac for the time being is chord mojo and i have the chord poly, sometimes i use the poly but most of the time i use the mojo connected by usd to my computer

 

i like to be able to control the volume from my couch without always having to reach out to the amp, and maintain the sound quality.

 

i am now considering roon with hq player to a have good digital volume control, as using the digital volume control of tidal apps i feel the sound quality is not as great as using the volume control on my amp

 

would using hq player with roon be a good move to use them to control volume

 

The volume control in HQP is excellent in terms of maintaining SQ. I have been using it for several months now, using Roon on an iPad to adjust the HQP volume, works very well.

 

The one issue with software controlled volume is accidentally having the volume max’d out and damaging your equipment (speakers).

 

In the HQP settings, you can limit the max (and min) volume limits to help avoid accidents. If you decide to go this route, we can advise you on how to set the limits.

[ericuco]

6 hours ago, hykhleif said:

 can u advise on dialing in settings to do that, so i can compare the digital volume to analog volume in HQ player

 

First off have your amp(s) or preamp turned off so that your speakers cannot receive a signal. You can also just turn down the hardware volume control all the way to "off", usually full counter-clockwise. Depends on how confident you are that no sound is reaching your speakers.

 

Next, go the HQP Setting panel and set max volume to -25 and min volume to -60. Be sure to save the settings. These settings set the limits on the HQP volume control knob on the main HQP panel. At a max of -25, if something goes wrong and the volume gets turned all of the way, it will be loud but should not do any damage.

 

You should be able to adjust the HQP from within Roon. On my iPad the control is in the bottom right section of the Roon panel. If you can view the HQP volume control knob, you should see it respond to adjustments made in Roon. Assuming that is working, set the HQP volume to something like -50 which is really low.

 

Ok, time to start seeing where you are. If you had turned off your amp(s) or preamp, turn them on but make sure the hardware volume control is all the way "off" or at least a very low volume setting. Start playing music through Roon/HQP. You probably won't hear anything given the volume setting are down. Slowly start turning up the volume on the hardware control (preamp). With HQP volume set at -50, you should be able to turn the hardware control all the way up (full clockwise) and just be able to hear music.

 

In the end, you want to leave the hardware control set at full clockwise or no attenuation.

 

Assuming that you are able to set the hardware control to full clockwise, slowly start raising the HQP volume control to a comfortable listening position and see where the HQP volume is at, probably between -40 and -30.

 

In the end, you want to set the max HQP volume setting slightly greater than your normal listening level. On my system, the HQP volume is usually between -38 and -32 so I have the max set to -25.

 

Finally, I assumed you are using the Roon/HQP combo. If you are just using HQP, it is the same procedure just be careful working with the HQP volume control knob.

[ericuco]

18 minutes ago, hykhleif said:

so following this will in your opinion make only small difference in sound quality using the digital volume vs the actual amp volume

I was able to remove a passive preamp device from my system by using digital volume control in which case I got slightly better SQ.
 

What effects on your system is something you will have to determine yourself. Might be better or might be worse.

 

Best of luck.

[ericuco]

3 hours ago, Miska said:

Here you can also see the real world power consumption level of the NAA. I'd say this is pretty low power device capable of running the Spring 3 up to 1.5M PCM and DSD1024!

 

For comparison, the fitlet2 (works with 7v - 20v range) using a 7v LPS shows the following.

 

Readings are the AC side (120v) while playing music - fitlet2 running Linux Mint & NAA.

 

This with Intel Atom x7-E3950 processor and SFP cage for network connection. USB out to T+A DAC8 DSD at DSD512.

 

[ericuco]

5 minutes ago, dericchan1 said:

Hi Miska, is something like a Cisco Sg300-10 likely to be compatible with fitlet2 Sfp port connection? It also seems to have a wui for configuration for enabling flow controls, and the couple other features you mentioned.

 

Deric

Several of here on AS have been using Mikrotik managed 10GB switches with the fitlet2. They are significantly less expensive than the Cisco switch you reference.

610-8G-2S+IN  switch only with SwOS Lite OS … ready to go as is

CRS305-1G-4S+IN router & switch modes with RouterOS … will work as is but better to switch over to SwOS, not difficult to do but more steps needed.

 

 

[ericuco]

15 minutes ago, the_bat said:

Hi

I may have missed this, but is there any way to disable the embedded player in HQPlayer OS on a Pi 4 to just use it as an NAA?

systemctl stop hqplayerd

systemctl disable hqplayerd

[ericuco]

2 minutes ago, the_bat said:

Thanks.  Does that have to done from an attached screen and keyboard rather than the web interface?

 
These are Linux commands that have to be issued on keyboard. It assumes you are the root user which is typically the default for HQP OS.

 

The first command stops hqplayerd that is currently running. The second command should prevent hqplayerd from automatically starting up on reboot.

[ericuco]

10 hours ago, musicjunkie917 said:

Where do I get this image?

See the very bottom “Network Audio Daemon” of this page:

 

https://www.signalyst.com/consumer.html

 

[ericuco]

7 minutes ago, Chanh said:

The issue with my current naa pc is that it has two LAN ports, maybe?

Fairly certain that NAA OS assumes only one network port.
 

You can use the Embedded OS if you cannot limit computer to just one Ethernet port. Just need to disable hqplayerd on the Embedded OS. That is what I do.