Hearing aids

[mbain]

Do any of you use hearing aids? I would be curious to learn of your experiences as relates to the enjoyment of our hobby.

[sandyk]

mbain

With some types of hearing damage, a much better than average headphone amplifier and decent headphones, better still with a very good DAC in line, can make a world of difference.I have been told by a Neurologist that it's the close coupling to the ears that matters.

 

Alex

[Audio_ELF]

With some types of hearing damage, a much better than average headphone amplifier and decent headphones, better still with a very good DAC in line, can make a world of difference.I have been told by a Neurologist that it's the close coupling to the ears that matters.

I would think you are right here sandyk... my experience of people with hearing loss is that they have difficulty distinguishing what they are listening to from the general background noise - a pair of headphones helps there.

 

Eloise

[Lowlands]

Makes a lot of sense to me. However, in the end, actual hearing loss is likely to be measured & quantified by a professional on the subject using a set of calibrated headphones & test-tones..

 

I lack any experience on this specific subject but am exploring the world of real-time DSP for the purpose of correcting room acoustics. I hypothesize that specifically computer audio might provide additional measures to combat hearing loss by (similar) means of using DSP engines in current play engines (such as JRiver MC) and the use of generated filters based on target frequency curves. That would allow you to plot a target curve that compensates for your hearing loss. If the computer knows where your ears lack sensitivity, it will simply boost the signal..

 

Assuming your hearing specialist will be able to provide you with a frequency curve, explaining where your ears are 'off' (likely challenged to register sound, implying a loss of Db's, explained in a frequency plot/curve) you might be able to correct the signal from your music server to compensate. It seems all you need is a parametric equalizer curve for left and right ear independently, implemented in the digital domain that, added together with the plot of your ears, imply a flat(ter) line...

 

There is some informative writing on CA on the use of Audiolense (build filter using target curve) & JRiver in the blogs section (see mitchco's blogs) to give you an idea. Audiolense however might be unfit & way to big a gun for your problem, since you are likely not interested in the time domain (only the frequency domain; you will be listening to cans, hence there is no room) and your measurement curve is the one provided on your ears by your doctor, not what your room is telling Audiolense.. What I do not know is if Audiolense will allow you to draw a target curve without having to do the room measurement and preferably, supply different target curves for your left and right ear (since your ears are likely to not measure the same..).

 

I know that Pure Music also has filtering / DSP logic in it, but I have not experimented with that. Your challenge I guess is find a way to import the required filter (required by the freq. curve of your ears) into the play-engine of choice...

 

If I were in this hobby with troubled ears, I would be investigating this route of options...

just my 2cts..

 

Hans

[sandyk]

Hans

My own experience tells me that is far better to ensure that neither the electronics or the transducers roll off HF detail any more than possible, and to especially ensure that the rise times of the waveforms are not degraded, as happens with MP3s, some amplifiers etc. Although I have industrial hearing damage, if it sounds too bright or sibilant to me, it also does to those with normal hearing, and vice versa. That also applies to listening via speakers.This is a very complex area that needs a lot more research.

Regards

Alex

[wkhanna]

I once asked Kal Rubisnon, editor at Sterophile, about compensating for hearing loss via DSP. He tried it with a friend who suffered hearing loss at certain frequencies. The result was that his friend soon found the experience fatiguing & uncomfortable. Boosting the volume at the range where hearing is impaired does nothing to make the frequency more audible. If you can not hear it, making it louder is of no value.

[jackfish]

Ah, then there is the complication from tinnitus which is often associated with hearing loss.

[JonP]

I have been told by a Neurologist that it's the close coupling to the ears that matters.

 

Alex

 

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. The close coupling to the ears matters in what respect? Are they saying it is good or bad?

[sandyk]

JonP

I was referring here to the use of high quality headphone amplifiers and high quality headphones.

Close coupling to the ears helps to overcome much of the loss of HF detail that a person with damaged hearing misses with normal loudspeakers.

Regards

Alex

[mbain]

Sandyk,

With all due respect I fail to understand your neurologists claim that a high quality

headphone arrangement would allow a person with moderate degree of hearing loss to overcome the loss of HF detail. After all, audiograms done with headphones, in controlled environments are precisely the devices that measure and quantify an individuals degree of loss in the first place.

 

Mark

[sandyk]

Mark

Those people with a moderate to high degree of hearing loss also have a higher hearing threshold.

Some low level stuff through speakers may even be inaudible. Couple the same source material directly to the ears,

via good headphones and far less will be missed.

Alex

[GoldenEar]

The result was that his friend soon found the experience fatiguing & uncomfortable.

 

There are other experiences, too. The German audiophile magazine "eins/null" reported in volume 3/2012, p. 54 about correction for hearing loss with a DSP ( Audiodata Volver) and the test person was VERY happy about the result. But like always in HiFi, listening abilities are not equal for all, nor is hearing loss. I would definitely give it a try if I were in the situation. The effects of such measures should only be evaluated after a longer adaptation period, because it is known that many persons have to adapt to their "improved hearing abilities" in case of hearing aids and the same should be true for any DSP effects.

 

Regards

Kay

[wdomeika]

Do any of you use hearing aids? I would be curious to learn of your experiences as relates to the enjoyment of our hobby.

 

....what? could you repeat the question? speak up, sonny!

 

For critical listening if you...as I do...suffer from moderate to severe hearing impairment, a great pair of headphones are really the best answer. I have a pair of $6K in ear hearing aids that can be set for various environmental conditions...top of the line, micro-computer controlled that are really remarkable using them in general life situation. I had the technician create a separate setting for simple amplification with no computer assisted alteration of the audio information...thinking maybe this might work with my full system.

 

Listening to my system with them makes by $20K plus rig sound like I'm listening to a $6.00 transistor radio. Headphones on the other hand are magical...depending on the cans you have and what's running them.

 

What I do when I want to listen to my full system is take the hearing aids out... turn the up gain to a volume where I hear a full sound and as much nuance/detail as possible ... and hope the neighbors don't have any glassware on their walls.

 

But that's not always possible or neighborly. So I put on the Grados quite often.

[mbain]

Your experience with the DACly expensive hearing aid echoes mine. I have had only one pair( my first ) and was hoping that in the four years that have passed since taking possession that something might be new on the horizon that would allow me to regain my previous level of enjoyment from listening to recorded music. Alas, it sound as though I will need a new approach of the types that have been suggested in precious posts on this topic. Further suggestions appreciated.