Trust my ears? I think not.

[bhobba]

Don't want to be sucker - simple. Do a blind test before buying to be sure of what you hear. Its really that simple. But by listening to a lot of gear you learn to trust your ears and understand what suits you so your enjoyment of your system increases.

 

Thanks

Bill

[4est]

Cannot speak for the OP.

 

But using your bad guys and fear example. If there are guys there, and you are afraid and you end up shooting or stabbing them out of fear, and they turn out not to be bad guys.....well, you see the harm.

 

But bad example. Not like audio spending exactly.

 

One thing is to ask what is the good from snake oil products? Sure makes shopping for effective equipment more difficult if over-priced equipment with no real benefits dominate or extensively makes up the market.

 

Imagine you had a company that made a DAC that was as good as any such could be and sold it for $300. I don't know this to be the case, but if it were, you couldn't get people to take it seriously at that price and if it didn't use all this audiophile jewelry in the design. In time you might have to fancy it up and raise the price or go out of business, then the product either isn't available to those with only $300 or isn't available at all. Isn't the end of the world if a perception even if not real sells for more money and makes the buyer happy. It isn't beneficial either that I can tell.

 

Or imagine this. You make a pretty good USB-SPDIF converter. It buffers the output side pretty well from the input side including the noisy power it gets from the USB cable. Your customers start asking when you will offer either a battery power option or external power option so you won't have to use power from the nasty USB source. You are a small company and some of the more precise and difficult measures of jitter and other aspects you do with rented time on some very, very expensive measuring equipment. So far your experiments with battery or other power haven't turned up anything you can hear. But so many customers keep insisting it is so. Next time you test you include some test runs using the different power schemes for your converter box. You can turn up no difference. Even down into the rather low pico-second range, no noise difference at the output otherwise over a wide bandwidth. Simply no difference at all with some of the most sensitive testing apparatus available to anyone. And still your customers are clamoring.

 

In time you maybe, say "okay, beats me, I will design a nice external supply, extra nice, charge a reasonable price and see if they like it." And you do, and they do and you get lots of glowing reports about the big improvements. Lets say it raises the base cost 30%. A bit more profit for you to make, customers are happier than ever. Good business will make customers happy. Sure seems to you like it does nothing. Customers are happy, profits are up, folks speak better of your device than ever before.

 

Now maybe these customers hear more than you the manufacturer do, and maybe they are delightfully mistaken. Still, doesn't sound like a good result all things considered. More money, more expense to the customer, more resources used for no actual result. Yet that is the high end business sometimes.

 

Sure, on the other hand, maybe this manufacturer just needed to hire someone who could hear better or more properly set up a stereo for testing?

[bhobba]

Or imagine this. You make a pretty good USB-SPDIF converter. It buffers the output side pretty well from the input side including the noisy power it gets from the USB cable. Your customers start asking when you will offer either a battery power option or external power option so you won't have to use power from the nasty USB source. You are a small company and some of the more precise and difficult measures of jitter and other aspects you do with rented time on some very, very expensive measuring equipment. So far your experiments with battery or other power haven't turned up anything you can hear. But so many customers keep insisting it is so. Next time you test you include some test runs using the different power schemes for your converter box. You can turn up no difference. Even down into the rather low pico-second range, no noise difference at the output otherwise over a wide bandwidth. Simply no difference at all with some of the most sensitive testing apparatus available to anyone. And still your customers are clamoring.

 

Just because you imagine something does not mean it happens. I know a manufacturer of a DAC and that is not how it works at all - not by a long shot.

 

Regarding low jitter sources I have heard differences blind in sources with jitter below 10ps - namely an Off-Ramp and Audiopilleo 2. Again the answer is to listen to stuff not conjecture how people could be ripped off. The more you listen the more you understand what really makes a difference to your ears and inoculates against marketing BS - which is the real issue IMHO. Far too many people in my experience rather than listening to gear are influenced by marketing hype and not what they hear.

 

Thanks

Bill

[jaxwired]

Just out of curiosity, what is the motivation for such a post? Is it strictly altruistic? You're trying to save the poor consumer from neglecting his children's needs to satisfy some delusional need for his system to sound better?

If an audiophile spends his money on something that he thinks sounds better, what's the harm?

 

Not altruistic, just making an observation and enjoying a discussion on the topic.

 

As for "what's the harm", what your really asking is, is it ok to cheat someone if they are happy with the transaction. I'd have to say it's not ok just on moral grounds. Even if the empreror is happy with his invisible suit it's still wrong to trick him and make a sale on false pretenses. Now if they sold these products and said "no sonic improvements will be achieved, but the product will create the illusion that the sonic improvements have occurred." That might be ok.

[chg]

This hobby is so full of self delusional suckers it's ridiculous. I mean if you are in this hobby and you don't constantly say to yourself "can I trust my ears?" then you are a bit of a sap IMO.

 

As others have asked, what's the motivation for such a post? Why not just look back at the many prior posts with similar discussions to find what you need?

 

The fact that you felt the need to start such a post suggests that you, like others who start objectivist type threads, are just bored and thought it would be a good idea to start such a post just for something to do. A desperate attempt at human (internet) interaction instead of getting out, finding other additional hobbies, exercising, working, spending time with family/friends, dating. Clearly you're not looking for CA assistance, advice, opinions with this post. Just a bored individual unwilling to find something constructive to do today.

 

You imply that some Audiophiles look foolish. There is nothing more foolish than watching bored individuals feel the need to save people from themselves on CA. You look no less foolish than religious types who go door to door looking to "save" people.

 

Since you feel it important to save others from themselves, I'll attempt to return the favor. I sense the desperation in your post and I'd suggest you spend some time away from the computer, get outdoors, maybe join a gym, go on a date, or maybe buy a pair of running shoes and go for a jog.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Well said chg. And with that I'll stick a fork in this thread and call it done.