Picking Out a Stereo Pre-Amp & Amp: Your Input, Please

[orgel]

I've gotten to the point where I'm happy with the source end of my chain (Mac mini + Mytek Stereo192 DSD) and with my speakers (Amphion Argon^₃'s). It's pretty obvious that the weak link is my Pioneer AVR, so I'm trying to pick out a suitable stereo pre-amp and amp. I need the pre-amp to have an HT bypass feature, and I'd like to have balanced connections all the way from the Mytek to the amp. A remote for the pre-amp would also be nice. As far as sound goes, my watchword is neutrality -- I just want to hear everything that's in the source material and nothing more. My budget for the pair of components would be about $4K (or less would be fine).

 

This is the first time I've ventured away from an integrated amp or a receiver, so I'm not terribly confident in my ability to make good choices, and I'd appreciate some help from wiser heads than mine. Feel free to validate my tentative choice or to suggest alternatives or variations. Here are my top picks:

 

Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Pre-Amp

Wyred 4 Sound ST-500 Stereo Amp

 

The W4S components meet all my requirements, as far as I can tell, and seem like a good value. The downside is that the only way I'm going to be able to audition these is to buy them and then return them (with a restocking fee) if I don't like them. On the other hand, I'm not going to be able to listen to boxes hooked up to my Amphions anywhere other than at the dealer below.

 

Here's what my local high-end audio retailer would like me to get (from him):

 

Simaudio Moon 350P Pre-Amp

NAD C 275BEE Stereo Amp

 

I've got no problem with the Simaudio (except that it costs a bit more than the W4S), but I'm a little concerned about the NAD in that I'd have to run unbalanced from the pre-amp. I'm also hesitant to get a pre-amp and amp from different manufacturers. The Simaudio 330A amp looks pretty sweet but blows the budget.

 

The other item that captured my fancy is the Odyssey Stratos amp. Kind of a beast, but I could see possibly pairing it with the W4S pre-amp.

 

Your thoughts? If you find fault with any of my reasoning, such as it is, please say so. Muchas gracias.

 

--David

[bikemig]

You might want to check out the emotiva pre-amp and amp: http://emotiva.com/. The emotiva 2 channel amp is currently on sale.

[esldude]

Well, I have a W4S ST500. It is a powerful, and very transparent amp. I have owned and heard other very good conventional amps. I cannot say I have compared other current choices, but the W4S is good. Haven't used one of their pre-amps, but assuming they know what they are doing it likely won't be a bottleneck to sound quality.

 

The W4S amp is very, very quiet, and very true to the source. Balanced connections certainly won't hurt that.

[abqnmusa]

another possibility ... W4S DAC2 as pre-amp

 

I am using a Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 as a pre-amp. The DAC2 replaced my Rotel pre-amplifier.

I connect components to the W4S DAC2 with digital cables, and go XLR balanced out to the Rotel amp.

 

The W4S DAC2 has worked spendidly as a pre-amp with no issues.

The sound is very good and has improved the sound of all devices I connect to it.

[wdomeika]

Unless you have to run a long distance between your amp and your preamp...or you think you need "belt and suspenders" extra shielding why would you be concerned about "running unbalanced from preamp to amp"?

 

 

 

Just wondering...

 

 

cheers,

 

Bill

[mayhem13]

For my 2 channel system, I run the Parasound Halo H3 preamp and the Halo H 21 power amp. The combination has performed flawlessly for me and the remote capabilities of the pre were a welcome addition. Your Amphions are an easy load but you can never have too much power and this amp is capable of extreme dynamics. Construction quality of both IMO is unrivaled at this price point and for me, solid construction is a huge determining factor for purchase. These units are built to last. If transparency is your goal, pass on anything valve driven and stick with solid state.

[AudioDoctor]

the Peachtree Grand Pre or the Grand Integrated!

[wgscott]

If I had $4K for this and was starting, I would definitely at least check out the Grand Integrated.

[orgel]

Thanks. Always love the validation. I'm leaning strongly to the W4S combo … but still open to new ideas.

 

--David

[AudioDoctor]

If transparency is your goal, pass on anything valve driven and stick with solid state.

 

absolutely untrue.

[orgel]

I'm certainly willing to try -- just to see -- using my Mytek like you use your DAC2, but in my setup I really need the HT bypass. One thing that appeals to me about the W4S pre-amp is its passive/active design. On paper, at least, it seems like I'd be running in passive mode 99% of the time, so my thinking is the pre wouldn't be adding much of anything.

 

--David

[wgscott]

the Peachtree Grand Pre or the Grand Integrated!

 

I think both have HT bypass.

[orgel]

Unless you have to run a long distance between your amp and your preamp...or you think you need "belt and suspenders" extra shielding why would you be concerned about "running unbalanced from preamp to amp"?

 

For one, though I won't have an especially long run, I think "belt and suspenders" probably won't hurt. I know there's some controversy over whether balanced matters with short runs, but I figure anything I can do to eliminate "schmutz" from the signal is all to the good.

 

Second, I currently have this little issue with output level from the Mytek being on the high side, so I have to attenuate using the Mytek's analog volume control. This may only be an issue with the AVR, but I really want to be sure I can bypass any attenuation on the Mytek with the new items, and I'm hoping going balanced will address that as well. I plan to check this out in detail with the designated manufacturer before I pull the trigger.

 

--David

[orgel]

For my 2 channel system, I run the Parasound Halo H3 preamp and the Halo H 21 power amp. The combination has performed flawlessly for me and the remote capabilities of the pre were a welcome addition.

 

Yeah, the Parasound P3 and A21 are in the mix. The price is right and they look great on paper. For the P3, is "External processor send and receive loop" the same as HT bypass? (Wish they came in black.) ;-)

 

--David

[AudioDoctor]

I think both have HT bypass.

 

They do.

[orgel]

If I had $4K for this and was starting, I would definitely at least check out the Grand Integrated.

 

The Grand Pre and Grand Integrated both look really, really nice, but I can't be two-timing my Mytek, especially since I'm highly enamored of listening to DSD. When I bought the Mytek I thought it'd be "nice" to have the DSD capability but the sound I'm getting with both good-quality DSD downloads (e.g., from Channel Classics) and from some SACD .iso's just blows me away. The DSD thing is rapidly becoming an obsession.

 

 

 

--David

[orgel]

If transparency is your goal, pass on anything valve driven and stick with solid state.

 

Play nice, gentlemen. Marquess of Queensbury rules.

 

For now, I'm going to maintain neutrality in the solid-state vs. tube wars. Maybe next round of upgrades. Purely on a personal, neurotic level, tubes seem like something I'd have to worry about: Do they need to be changed now? Do I need to replace them with something from Soviet Russia that I can only purchase from a distant relative in the Hague? Will the cleaning crew break them? Will they injure the cat?

 

--David

[wdomeika]

You're getting great advice on a number of different amp/preamp combinations. The last thing I'd be worried about is balanced cables.

 

 

cheers,

 

 

Bill

[AudioDoctor]

The Grand Pre and Grand Integrated both look really, really nice, but I can't be two-timing my Mytek, especially since I'm highly enamored of listening to DSD. When I bought the Mytek I thought it'd be "nice" to have the DSD capability but the sound I'm getting with both good-quality DSD downloads (e.g., from Channel Classics) and from some SACD .iso's just blows me away. The DSD thing is rapidly becoming an obsession.

 

 

 

--David

 

Just so you are aware, and I am clear, the Grand Pre is a fully functional Pre-Amp, and a darned good one at that. It also has a world class DAC, no DSD though. There is no reason you could not plug your Mytek into one of the analog inputs. I did just that with my Cosecant when I had the Grand pre here.

[Julf]

The last thing I'd be worried about is balanced cables.

 

Well, no reason to *worry*, but I would definitely put balanced cables (but even more importantly balanced inputs) higher than a lot of other attributes. The benefit of balanced inputs is pretty clear (avoids a lot of earth/ground loop hassles and worries). There is a reason pro systems are balanced.

[orgel]

You're getting great advice on a number of different amp/preamp combinations.

 

Quite correct, and I'm very grateful to everyone who's chimed in.

 

The last thing I'd be worried about is balanced cables.

 

Here we differ, and I'm glad Julf commented, because (1) I agree with him, and (2) he can articulate the issues much better than I can. Another point is, Why not balanced? If balanced connections can take ground-related issues out of the equation, and in the price range we're talking about, they're there as often as not, and my DAC has balanced outs ... well, you see where I'm going. (I notice you're not using the K-Mart interconnects. I'm sure you have your reasons.)

 

--David

[goldsdad]

I'm trying to pick out a suitable stereo pre-amp and amp

 

You will increase your options by considering integrated amps, too.

 

For example:

Simaudio 600i, one 'audiophile' power cable

versus

Simaudio 350P + 330A, two 'audiophile' power cables, pair of 'audiophile' balanced interconnects.

 

I would not be surprised if the integrated has significantly better sound quality than the two-box solution but costs much the same.

[orgel]

Just so you are aware, and I am clear, the Grand Pre is a fully functional Pre-Amp, and a darned good one at that.

 

Understood, and I agree completely. (I also enjoyed your hands-on account.) It's more a question of, Why pay for another DAC when I already have one I like? If I didn't already have the Mytek, the Grand Pre would be in contention (though it's a bit of a budget stretcher for me).

 

--David

[mav52]

You know the emotiva option is really a good deal, plus Emotiva offers a 30-day return policy if you don't like it.

[orgel]

You will increase your options by considering integrated amps, too.

 

Yes, I've wrestled with this. The 600i is a bit out of my league, but the 340i would probably do me nicely. There's also the W4S STI-500 and STI-1000, which seem like great values. I'm thinking that separates would provide future upgrade flexibility, though I'm not sure that's entirely rational on my part. I can't rule out that this whole separates thing isn't left over from yearning for McIntosh or Crown separates (and Klipschorns) when I was in my 20s.

 

(Nix on the audiophile-grade balanced cables, at least for the time being. I'm thinking Redco -- even their AES/EBU-grade cabling is quite reasonable. Mogami cabling, Neutrik connectors ... seems better than okay.)

 

--David