My audition of ALAC media on high-end gear

[4est]

Was it you or Scot that had a thread describing some of the break in of the Magnepans?

 

[Paul R]

I think it was me, and Barry contributed a lot in the thread as well. Broke in a set of MMGs as well as the 1.7s last year.

 

-Paul

 

 

[kjmagnusson]

I'm very interested in your experience. Can you provide a URL to the discussion(s)? I searched and did not find. I'm interested in your experience with both the 1.7s and the MMGs.

 

Thanks,

Kris

 

[Boy Howdy]

kjmagnusson:

I drive my MG 1.6s with a B & K dual mono Reference 4420 amp which puts out 350 watts per channel into 4 ohms. It is American made, solid as a rock and probably less expensive than some boutique solutions - lots of very clean power. I also use an ACI Titan XL subwoofer for the low end. I use this combination in my "music" room which also has my baby grand piano and I often play piano with vinyl, CD, SACD, and digital music. This is as close to actually playing with other musicians (which I also do often 8^) as I have been able to get with audio equipment. Granted, my ideal may be different from yours but I thought I'd put in a plug for B & K. I have been very happy with their equipment for many years.

 

I suggest you also go to the Audio Asylum and look in the "Planars/Statics/Ribbons" area to see the numerous discussions about driving MG 1.7s. Lots of ideas about speaker amplification if not other considerations.

 

Good luck.

 

[Julf]

Brüel & Kjær?

 

[Boy Howdy]

Check them out.

 

http://www.bkcomp.com/

 

[Julf]

Sure. I was just showing my age. Any engineer who has been around audio long enough knows "B & K" as Brüel & Kjær (Sound and Vibration Measurement A/S), the famous Danish manufacturer of precision audio & vibration measurement instruments since, I guess, the 1940's.

 

 

[kjmagnusson]

That one looks like it might be a good amp for the 1.7s IFF if the power cranks up at 4 ohms. I can't find any pricing on it, though, so I have no idea if it fits with my budget. But the Class A/AB is attractive.

 

The Class D amp doesn't have any USB inputs, and I didn't that it has a built-in DAC (which seems to be the obvious next step in the data chain of an amp) so it's not any more effective for me than any other non-USB+DAC amps. Unfortunately.

 

But thanks for passing that along. If the dealer I'm going to this afternoon has this manufacturer of amps, I will definitely plug my Mac into it and give it a listen.

 

Thanks!

Kris

 

[Julf]

Before you decide, you might want to give a hypex nCore based amp a listen.

 

6moons: industry features - nCore.

 

(usual disclaimer - my only connection to hypex is as a happy customer)

 

 

[kjmagnusson]

I asked my local dealer of many gears what he thought of the NAD C390DD:

 

"I wanted to ask you a question about Class D amps, specifically the NAD C390DD. I know you're a tube amp guy, but as a computer guy the notion of a very efficient amp with a USB input + DAC + HDMI + DSP + Dynamic Power bursts of up to 350W at 4 ohms seems pretty attractive to me. What do you think of the Class D concept, and do you have an opinion about the NAD I mentioned? And can you get it for me if that's what I decided on?"

 

His response:

 

"I have sold several NAD products. Two caviats. First when it fails, please

don't call me for help. Class D amps are great for subwoofers, because you

don't truely listen to them. The best of the Class D amps are the Nuforce

amps. I sell them as well, but if you don't get a tube amp I urge you to

buy a class A of Class AB. Class D amps are in my opinion the least musical amp design I have ever heard. Lots of power for cheap.... Think about it a while."

 

Well, I'm thinking about it, and as a guy who deals with bits all day long, every day, I can't think of anything innately bad or wrong about an all-digital design. So I'm still off to the NAD dealer to audition this amp this morning, before the afternoon meetings start.

 

To be fair to my local dealer, some people I know who have had all kinds of amps over the years tell me that NADs are in the shop a little bit more than, say, Rotels or McIntoshes.

 

I feel kind of bad that I evoked some string negative feelings in him—he's a nice guy and I didn't mean to push his buttons. Oh well.

 

On the plus side, my local dealer has a 90 days SAC option. I might be willing to purchase a much more expensive amp and DAC if I had more time to pay it off. The McIntosh I demoed ALAC media on that started this thread might be an option with 90 days to pay it off.

 

Kris

 

[Julf]

"Class D amps are in my opinion the least musical amp design I have ever heard. Lots of power for cheap.... Think about it a while."

 

That might have been a fair statement 5 years ago.

 

 

[Paul R]

From your rendition of that conversation, I feel pretty confident in saying that they 930 and M2 are different animals than what your dealer is familiar with.

 

Listen to them and decide if you like the sound. They are, I think, some of the best SS gear around, and have phenomenal sound.

 

Also, I rarely have NAD gear break, though their customer service has left a bad taste in my mouth the last few times I dealt with them. They tried very hard to brush me off, or at least some new yahoo there who had no idea what he was talking about did. Meh...

 

Conversely, my local dealer seems to have no trouble speaking their language and getting results from them.

 

-Paul

 

 

[kjmagnusson]

Rendition? That was a cut-and-paste from the email he sent me this morning.

 

He's not totally biased against Class D—he sells them—but he definitely REALLY doesn't like NAD, so much so as to tell me to stay away from him if I pick up one of their product. Ouch.

 

But it's kind of irrelevant. I live close to an NAD dealer (Sonoma -> Mill Valley) and to San Francisco, so I can pick up whatever little bits and pieces I need in a radius of about 40 miles max. I can just hop on the motorbike and jet to the city and have custom cables made, etc., or put a malfunctioning amp in the trunk of the car and rotor my way to Mill Valley if I have to.

 

I'm taking a long lunch and auditioning the NAD unit. I'll let everyone know what I think of that device.

 

Kris

 

[Downrange]

definitely consider the Parasound Halo A-21. I picked up a B stock unit with full five year warranty for a decent price, and it's been in use here with two different systems, one of which is full-size Maggies, and has sounded very nice. Plenty of power...

 

[kjmagnusson]

I have a bead on the C 390DD and the Rogue 90 tube amp. If the Rogue dealer will finance I will just pick up the Rogue Zeus, a DAC, and cables, and call it good. But I'm going to go into San Francisco a few times to check on other amp brands--I'll look for Parasound and plug it into my Mac and give it a whirl.

 

I did solve the problem of how to break in the Maggies as well as how to audition the C 390DD at home with one fell swoop: the Mill Valley NAD dealer just up and offered to loan me a C 390DD with merely a credit card imprint for deposit. I figure if I play the 1.7s all week, even at a low volume, I can get them mostly broken in and have one full day to listen to them in their full glory. I certainly have enough media to make that happen....

 

What a nice place that is! Might be worth buying from him just on that basis alone, especially since the Rogue/tube dealer won't even return my mail now since I asked him about NADs.

 

[Paul R]

Abccording to my notes, the bass won't come in for about 100 hours, and the treble will be a little sharp to around 225 hours. The speakers give hints of what they are capable of from the moment you hook them up though.

 

At around 400 hours, they just seem to jell and you wonder why you ever listened to anything else. They continue with slight improvements up through about 700 hours. They did not seem to change after that.

 

You might want to message Barry Diamanté, since he is much more of an expert than I am, and has broken in more Maggie's. He has a lot of good hints about placement and other stuff too.

 

 

 

[Audio_ELF]

When I read the title of Paul's post... I though perhaps we should be asking Denis's advise...

 

[Paul R]

Drat that automatic spellcheck with correction!

 

(The worse case of that was when I wrote a memo on sexual harassment, and it changed a mis-typed "public" to another word missing the "l." The phrase "public attention" took on an entirely unexpected and unwanted meaning!)

 

-Paul

 

 

[santiago]

Hi Kris

Very interested in your audition of the c390dd. Have you had the opportunity to listen to it? If so, what's your opinion about it?

I'm a little afraid of it being very precise, but sterile and not very engaging at the same time...

Or does it have the classic nad sound signature?

 

 

[kjmagnusson]

I would characterize the C390DD as sounding dead. Maybe dead-accurate, but also dead musically and dead emotionally.

 

I listened to it reproduce some Norah Jones at the NAD dealer. It sounded pretty dead there, but I thought that it might have been the B&W speakers. So I took it home, connected it to my Magneplanar 1.7s, and if it sounded dead in the shop, it sounded like a zombie at home. I played around with speaker placement, etc., but I just couldn't get any music out of it.

 

I took it back and was going to jet over to another shop to check out a Vincent hybrid in my price range, but the sales guy convinced me to take home a C375BEE + NAD DAC 1. I wrestled that heavy sucker into my living room, connected up the speaker cables to the amp and the DAC transmitter to my Mac, and had the best listening experience I've had in years. Pure music. Airy, open, transparent, detailed, broad and deep sound stage--actually quite electrifying at reproducing all kinds of music, including the said Norah Jones. So I bought it.

 

The Maggies keep opening up more and more, revealing clues about what they will eventually sound like, but even half-broken in, the combo of the C375BEE and the Maggies is wonderful. I'm very happy with my choice.

 

Kris