Computer Audiophile Pocket Server - C.A.P.S.

operating system · December 25, 2010

Hi hubsand

what was the alternative solution you were refering to in an earlier post using linear regulated PS and zotac ion

can you provide the link or PM me

that would help

which linear regulated PS do you use and which case it would be nice to be able to use the beautiful origen case though

solo16 · January 2, 2011

Hi Chris,

Recently I successfully build a CAS with Ubuntu Studio 10.10 with the realtime kernel, as well as optimizied the priorities for hardware and software.

I would like to say it's awesome, and I'm sure no way windows can beat it in terms of sound quality.

If, you have the time could you please kindly write a guide of using linux as the os for CAS?

I'm still learning how to use linux.

Cheers!

TelecomAndy · January 20, 2011

Chris,

Great article. I'm keen to build my own version but have a couple of comments.

1. I see no need for a PCI soundcard (ESI Juli@ or M-Audio, etc). If I understand your article I can output from the MB as digital to a DAC (going to buy this one in the UK http://www.homehifi.co.uk/main/main.html at about GBP200)

2. The audiophile quality is important but I'm keen to develop the user experience. I find some VNC viewers and indeed Windows RDP a bit 'clunky' for IP control of 'headless' units such as Media Centres. I will demo the J River GUI and see how intuitive 'iApps' feel.

3. Although this efficient system doesn't draw much power, it would be nice to use 'Wake-On-LAN' or one of the free Power control utilities around.

4. Has anyone thought of a way to add and control a 2nd audio zone? I can only think an IP controlled dual output amplifier would start the process, not sure how you could control 2 audio streams from iTunes....

Can't wait for your CAPS v2 article!

Kind regards Andy

Audio_ELF · January 20, 2011

1) yes you can go from motherboard optical / coax to a DAC. However motherboard digital audio is very basic quality. A USB converter or dedicated sound card would be higher quality. Alternatively if you can stretch your budget, check out the Arcam rDAC which has a good USB interface built in.

2) J.River can be controlled using UPnP apps such as PlugPlayer. Foobar 2000 (an alternative player) can be controlled using the Apple Remote app if you install a small Foobar plug in. iTunes of course works with Apple Remote app though the SQ is lower than J.River or Foobar and generally not recommended for Windows.

3) No idea if this motherboard supports Wake on LAN though I would think it should.

4) A few options for second zone:

A. J.River supports multiple sound cards. If you used a soundcard (or USB converter) for main output, you could use the motherboard sound for zone 2.

B. J.River (and Foobar) can operate as a UPnP server to stream audio to a UPnP client.

C. If you used iTunes you could add an Airport Express, AppleTV or other AirPlay device in second zone. This could be controlled via Apple Remote.

Eloise

TelecomAndy · January 20, 2011

Thanks Eloise, although I'm clueless on a couple of your points;

1) yes you can go from motherboard optical / coax to a DAC. However motherboard digital audio is very basic quality. A USB converter or dedicated sound card would be higher quality.

Surely as the Atom + W7 OS will be doing all the sound processing, the few articles I've read point to there being no advantage in getting an onboard device to convert to analogue. I had presumed (probably naively) that an external and more expensive DAC would produce a better fidelity overall. Do you mean the MoBo SPDIF output jacks tend to be a bit crummy and a PCI card in effect takes over the job? I adore Arcam products although I'm not sure if their rDAC is better than the Beresford unit - have you any experience of it? If you're correct about the MoBo audio output being poor, there's no benefit in getting either DAC....

4) A few options for second zone:

A. J.River supports multiple sound cards. If you used a soundcard (or USB converter) for main output, you could use the motherboard sound for zone 2.

B. J.River (and Foobar) can operate as a UPnP server to stream audio to a UPnP client.

C. If you used iTunes you could add an Airport Express, AppleTV or other AirPlay device in second zone. This could be controlled via Apple Remote.

I'll have to experiment on the above! My impression of the Apple transit devices are they're pitched to the undiscerning consumer and aren't audiophile quality.

Thanks for your comments. Andy

Audio_ELF · January 20, 2011

1) When you are using a SPDIF (coax or TOSLink optical) connection, you still have some hardware doing a conversion to the SPDIF format required by the DAC. The hardware used on motherboards is of a most basic quality.

By adding an audio card (the Lynx described by Chris is the ultimate but others such as Asus Xonar, ESI Juli@ and M-Audio are other alternatives) or USB to SPDIF converter the quality of the signal sent to the DAC is improved and therefore the sound quality you can achieve is higher. A good description of the issues you are up against can be found on <a href="http://www.mother-of-tone.com/computer_audio.htm">Altmann's website</A> where he discusses it a lot better than I can.

A USB DAC, especially one using a good Asyncronous USB interface like the Arcam rDAC has, avoids issues of low quality motherboard audio interfaces. The Arcam DAC is every good though I've not compared the Arcam to the Beresford. The async USB technology and general design along with reviews and comparisons I've read, would lead me to believe that for computer audio the Arcam would be better.

4) You are right that the Apple devices are not the ultimate in sound quality but it all depends on your expectations and requirements. I know people use the Apple TV with DACs such as Naim DAC (£2,000) so it can't be that bad.

Other alternatives for multi-zone systems are the Sonos and Squeezebox systems. I forgot to write about them in my first reply to you.

Eloise

howdyponcho · January 22, 2011

Eloise,

What is your opinion on the sound quality from the MoBo USB to a DacMagic? Would I be able to avoid the issues arising from the poor quality in the mobo's audio interface?

Russ Reed · January 25, 2011

The developers for J. River have also developed an app that is Android based called "Gizmo" which will completely control J. River MC 15.

Audio_ELF · January 25, 2011

Connecting any DAC via USB will bypass all on motherboard sound hardware however the USB implementation is not equal on all DACs.

The DACMagic, like many DACs of it's age and/or price bracket use why is known as adaptive USB. This USB connection was added to many DACs as an easy way to interface to a computer. Generally this connection was an improvement on an SPDIF link provided by on motherboard sound hardware and general purpose sound cards but not as good as a good dedicated sound card (think of ESI Juli@, M-Audio Audiophile and upwards). You'll find adaptive USB interfaces in older designs but also in some recently developed DACs.

Later development of USB technology to link to DACs produced what is known as asynchronous USB. Developed by companies such as Wavelength and dCS, Async USB allows for a higher quality input to a DAC by (in simple terms) handing control of the data transfer to the DAC over to the DAC.

RSB · January 29, 2011

As this is my first post I would first like to thank Chris and all of the posters here for the wonderful site, great information, and entertaining reading that has wiled away the many hours I can’t sleep at night. That said, I have a small problem I am working on that I would like some help with.

I am hearing an electronic hash noise in my music system. It is only audible when I turn up the volume to/past 11:00. The hash noise is quiet enough that I generally don’t notice it while playing music, unless I am playing some music that has quiet passages at higher volumes and then it is loud enough to become apparent and irritating.

My system is as follows: mostly CAPS server (same MB but with different 80 Watt brick power supply and case) running W7 and JRiver --> Wireworld Starlite USB cable --> Wyred Dac2 .-> Kimber Interconnects --> Bryston B100 amp --> etc.

Having spent some time teasing out this problem I have reason to believe that the noise is coming from the power source into and through the server. I am looking into several options and have some questions:

Option 1: Replace the power supply brick with the one Chris spec’d in the original CAPS article. Inexpensive solution, but still a switching power supply and may have the same problem. I did read of one guy who had a bad PS and this solved his hash problem. Do any of you using the CAPS server with the spec’d PS have a hash noise?

Option 2: Replace the power supply with a 12v power supply I found that is sold by Triplite. It is nominally called a 12v power supply but actually puts out 13.8v. But, the MB in the CAPS is spec’d to take 12v. Does anyone know if this would be OK or if it would be a problem for the MB? The PS looks like it has a good build quality, but I can’t tell if it is switching supply or any better than a brick PS.

Option 3: Purchase a Triplite power isolater. I am thinking this might work if the hash is coming in from the mains. Of course, it won’t solve the problem if it is coming from the brick.

What do you think?

Randy

manisandher · January 29, 2011

Hi Randy, I use the following bench power supply with my CAPS: http://www.itemaudio.co.uk/item_power_supply.html. This has been modified to output 12.8V, and not 13.8V - the retailer believes the latter may be 'chip-melting'. There must be someone producing a 120V input version of this...

I've never compared this linear PSU with the stock brick PSU and DC-DC converter that came with the Origen case - I prefer plugging the linear PSU straight into the mobo.

Mani.

Tamino · February 1, 2011

Hi Chris,

Do you still intend to publish some info on a new CAPS version?

Thanks

RSB · February 2, 2011

Mani -

I emailed Item Audio and they suggested the KingRex power supply which is 115v and available in the US.

Thanks!

Randy

katywu · February 19, 2011

Chris,

How are things progressing with v2? I know you were waiting for some parts, have you built it yet? Anything to share?

All the best

Mike

dbdog · February 24, 2011

Great article. I'm looking into building a new music and video server. I'm having difficulty with the fanless and motorless goals since this box will also need to run 4 sata drives until I can afford a nas. I therefore need a powerful enough power supply to spin up multiple sata drives and for future proofing, yes, I'd prefer a fast processor.

I'm planning on using my Lynx AES16 connected via EAS/EBU single wire cable to my Bryston BDA-1. Given that these both have fairly good jitter control capabilities I'm wondering if I will ever be able to hear the difference.

I understand the importance of a fanless PC if you plan to have it located in your music room. I get around that by locating the pc box in the next room passing my 10 ft. AES cable through a hole in the wall. I can't hear a thing from it.

My system is fairly revealing but the engineer in me is questioning my ability to hear the difference in the signal coming from a fanless/motorless PC in the next room relative to a regular PC with fans and motors.

Has anyone done blind a/b tests to justify what would be a fairly big expense/challenge?

Cheers

dbdog

audiozorro · February 24, 2011

until I moved my fanless G-Tech Drive into my audio cabinet. It is the noisiest drive I ever heard. So much so that I will probably buy a 15 foot USB cable just to move it far away in some corner where I can't hear it.

For me the key goal is dead quiet and not necessarily fanless. Larger diameter low speed fans are usually more quiet than smaller diameter higher speed fans.

So if you want a very fast processor, lots of memory and multiple drives you need and should want your computer to have large diameter low speed fans that are extremely quiet and very effective in keeping your components cool.

Obviously solid state drives are better than spinning hard drives but cost and storage requirements lead most folks to compromise. Many good recommendations can be found here:

http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CMP.05Components

Do want you can and makes sense; don't belabor the difficult or chase the bleeding edge.

iamimdoc · February 24, 2011

"Has anyone done blind a/b tests to justify what would be a fairly big expense/challenge?"

Probably not but the consensus around here is that this blind testing is not worthwhile.... (Not everyone agrees, however.)

A noiseless machine is really nice as you never "lose the moment" when the music fades and the noise then becomes noticable. The CAPS server described works well and takes a small power supply (ie, no noise) - but probably is not up to high rez video. The small case can't take any more drives, etc.

Thus you really need NAS or drives with own power, ie powered USB if you use the CAPS design.

A device I have found to work well - I now have 4 or 5 of them - is an IOCELL 351 - this is a box in which one places a SATA drive that allows the device to be used as NAS, external SATA or USB without change or reconfiguration. the ability to move stuff easily is ageat feature I think - sort of aportable network without configuration. As they are at my router, noise is not an issue. They cost about $50 each at Frys but I have found them on sale/rebate for as little as $29. SATA drive is extra off course.

I have not tested for speed, etc but can only say the devices stream FLAC files and high rez movies over a 100MB network without hiccough. I have had some for 2 years without issue on XP/WIN 7/MAC network.

The only downside for me is that they get warm in a warm room but a small desk fan cools 4 of them without problems in an uncooled room/closet.

dbdog · February 25, 2011

iamimdoc wrote "A noiseless machine is really nice as you never "lose the moment" when the music fades and the noise then becomes noticable."

Totally agree. That's why I've put it in another room altogether. Those IOCELL's look very interesting. Thanks.

audiozorro wrote "Do want you can and makes sense; don't belabor the difficult or chase the bleeding edge."

Good advice for sure. If I had all the hours back that I spent trying to get the last 1% improvement...

What I was wondering is if anyone can tell the difference in the sound of a fanless/motorless pc relative to a regular one if you can't hear the pc (i.e. is there an audible difference in the bitstream). I asked the tech at Lynx and he said there would be no difference as long as jitter is controlled.

I'm interested in others thoughts.

SBright · April 4, 2011

Hi Chris,

Any update on your progress? CES was a little while ago. :-)

I'm sure there are many of us waiting for v2.

Even if not a fullblown article, any news on your testing?

cheers

SBright

mdogbucket · April 7, 2011

I have read through all of the posts in this section but haven't seen anyone using an iPad to totally control the CAPS music server with windows 7 and J River. Is this possible yet? Is anyone actually doing this?

I am no computer expert but it would seem the iPad is the ultimate sleek and silent touch screen remote to use with J River in theater mode (or even standard mode).

Do this with VNC or some other way?

Anyone?

Oystein · April 7, 2011

I build myself a HTPC last week and Running Windows 7 with J. River and use iPad as remote.

I installed 2 apps on my iPad:

1. PocketCloud from Wyse - free version

2. PlugPlayer

Pocketcloud allows you to run a VNC client on your PC for access trough PocketCloud. So you can control Windows on the CAPS with all functions on your iPad.

You can also play around with J. River this way.

For a simple interface you can use Plugplayer (enable DLNA in J. River) to browse your music library, make a playlist en play the music.

You do not need one to use the other but I use both for convinience. At this moment I am still ripping my CD's and use PocketCloud to control dbPoweramp on the PC.

mdogbucket · April 7, 2011

Thanks for sharing your experience with the iPAD controlling your computer and J. River.

My real concern is whether you are able to see/control J. River on the iPAD exactly as you would on your computer itself (only that it would be touch rather than mouse/keyboard). IOW, can you use Theater View with it's Sooloos-like album view and scroll through effortlessly selecting albums and tracks via the iPAD?

And if Theater View is a problem, what about Standard View, which can look very similar to Theater View when sorted by album thumbnails?

It sounds like the PlugPlayer is it's own special limited interface rather than showing you J. River's Theater View or Stand View. Is that correct?

Thanks again.

Oystein · April 7, 2011

Running PocketCloud (VNC) is like running remote desktop.

What the computer monitor would show(if connected) is what you get on you iPad display ... only smaller.

Any view in J.River will also be shown on the iPad.

In my case I have a black section in the bottom of my iPad display. This is because the resolution ratio of the PC does not match the native ratio of the iPad.

Like watching TV 3:4 on a 16:9 widescreen TV ... there you see the black portions left and right.

I did not bother me enough to try different resolutions.

PlugPlayer uses it own interface .. you are correct.

It looks more like a MP3 player interface but does the job quite well.

I think it is originally developped for iPhone/iPod where you need a more simple interface because of the limited display size.

jrobbins50 · April 7, 2011

I think you would want to look at RiverMote as an application to control JRiver on your iPad/iPhone. When I can get it to work (I often have connection issues), it has a very nice interface and I do believe that the RiverMote app supports the TheaterView within JRiver (although I've not used that myself).

Here's the link to the website on the app: http://melloware.com/products/rivermote/

JCR

mdogbucket · April 16, 2011

Some people have mentioned dual core processor options which seemed to require a fan. Has that changed recently or is there a fan-less dual core option now available?

Otherwise is there a "nearly silent" fan version that could be made in the same case with dual core?

I suppose the overall requirements for me are:

Lynx AES16

Windows 7

J. River Media Center

Control with Ipad2 using VNC or something

Silent or "nearly silent"

Small

Simple

Computer Audiophile Pocket Server - C.A.P.S.

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