Music Servers and Preamp Processors / Receivers

That looks like a good solution, but with SPDIF there's no support for the HD formats - if that's an issue.

Curious about your experiences streaming with Jriver. I have come across a few weird issues with the software. One thing I would tell readers, at least from my experience, is that Jriver will only stream out what it thinks windows is capable of outputting...for example if you set the output in windows sound control panel to stereo, that is all you will get from Jriver. You definitely have to have Jriver and Windows all set for 5.1 or what have you. My experience anyway. Soon after I made a few adjustments in Windows I was able to stream 5.1 to my Oppo, though over s/pdif of course multi comes over as stereo. Seems weird that streaming audio would require anything from the OS as it is not being transcoded...simply streamed...time and time again however I've found this to be the case. In all fairness however I am using a mac with bootcamp to stream so the capabilities of a native windows machine might be different for whatever reason. Just something to keep in mind before you try streaming multichannel PCM...

You (vastly?) prefer running a DAC into this pre/pro instead of using the pre/pros onboard DACs. Is that right?

Hi Scot - I vastly prefer a DAC with volume control like the Bel Canto DAC 1.5 running directly into a power amp.

Hi bleedink - Thanks for the information. I will test this and get back to everyone here.

It's been one of the curious things about the software. I'd love to know if this is isolated to my components or a function of the server. Appeciate any insight. JRiver forums were mum on the subject.

With my Sony AVR I use the pre section for volume only. Play straight through the analog direct out avoiding all processing. And use a much superior stand alone DAC. This has been the most bang for the buck to have multi channel for video and good quality 2 channel for music.<br />

Chris is this approach possible with the Marantz?<br />

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Thanks Russ

I wish I had the dollars to send you a good NAD AVR or T175 PrePro. I have a feeling it would be surprising to you, if you have not already heard them. <br />

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The only thing I noticed is that it seems a trifle lopsided to compare the DACs in a $1500 Preproc to a $5K Alpha Dac, or even the Bel Canto. Much more likely to be compared to a Music Streamer II I think. <br />

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I admit, I tend to run two channel sound through a better DAC, and there is a nice pair of Outlaw monoblocks sitting in a box in the corner waiting for me to unpack them and hook them up. But then, who would expect a little AVR to drive Magenpan 1.7s? (If they ever get here. The T747 does a credible job with the Maggie MMGs. <br />

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-Paul<br />

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Did I miss that Q already?<br />

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Flexibility, value, and the desire for a bunch of bells and whistles, sure intice people to get the one box fits all devices…. Bose made it’s millions promoting exactly that approach.<br />

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Always, ghowever, the one size fits all tact is the bottleneck of the system. The limiting factor. Especially if it is a reciever… and no other amps are added on.<br />

Sure it can be satisfying and at least good, but that’s where it stops too.<br />

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A dedicated proc too is likely to diminish the SQ if it competes in the under 2000-3000 plateau, barring a few exceptions.<br />

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So I have to ask, Why the pick for the Marantz proc… who else was in the running, or was the Marantz just too good a deal to passup?<br />

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You were in a rush and crunched for time to shop?<br />

With $1500 on tap fror a new proc there are a few available… and better still for not much more. Marantz offers as little value in it’s line up as any I’ve seen and heard. In other words, to get the same scale of performance from Integra to Marantz, you’ll pay a lot more for the Marantz to remain on par with a Integra.<br />

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The DLNA appelette is a troubling assignment IMO. Just because it passes or decodes mp3’s … So what?<br />

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It is OK to ladle on tons of audio codecs and video codecs applicable to DVD & Blu Ray replay, but as for file formats? It’s be picky & choosy time.<br />

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Having run thru a few reputedly DLNA certified components, and finding them lacking in the folder tree, disc format, and file types allowed, I’ve given up on acquiring anytime soon, a truly plug & play DLNA unit… and have crawled back into my cave and returned to using my personal confusers to accomplish such goals.<br />

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In one array, I use the overachieving Hiface plugged directly into the Onkyo 805 recevier and connected to a Vista Laptop via a belken Gold USB 6ft extension cord. Using either Fubar or JR MC 15, with KS or WASAPI as outputs.<br />

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I have no drop outs… no hic cups… all file formats play fine… well, except I’ve only a hundred or so MP3s left hanging around… they’re so 90’s!<br />

When I saw this unit hit the market, I was shock by the low price. I saw that because I own the previous version AV8003 which retailed for twice the price. I wondered what corners did Marantz cut to bring the price so low. I searched all over the web and could not find any nudies of this new model. <br />

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My Marantz AV8003 is actually a decent machine when compared to my McIntosh MX119. I am starting to think Marantz went the wrong direction with this new model.

I also contend that it is a very unfair comparison between the Marantz and the BAD DAC or even the Bel Canto DAC. A better comparison would be a Krell Pre Pro, which Krell paid great attention to the analog 2 channel side and the digital decoding DAC's. I use a dual duty system, a 2 channel balanced pre amp, which has Home Theater by pass, to send the signal to the Pre Pro. Perfect for an A/B comparison and the Krell sounds superb in comparison to the 2 channel pre amp, so much so that I have been hesitant to purchase a stand alone DAC. But I will eventually do so because of all the great input from the CA people about their various DAC's. But let's just say I am in no real hurry as the music sounds great as is. I could use it for the 2 channel side of things if it does not sound better than the Pre Pro.

It is a very good review and insightful. I understand that a Prepro at this price range is unable to beat a DAC at the same or higher price range. I guess it would be a surprise if Marantz beats them.. What would be really good to know, which price range DAC does this processor beat. It might so happen that a person who is designing a both Stereo and AV can avoid that price range DAC or if that DAC is the only budget then he can even avoid spending the money on such range of DACs<br />

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I have a Classe SSP 30MKII and I have tested it against the Musical Fidelity M1 DAC and the difference is none. <br />

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Please share your views from this viewpoint.

With a proc, the concern IMO should be on video switching, first and SQ second... and the SQ should be very good to great... and as said, it ain't happening with budget or entry level procs, usually.<br />

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Even if the proc handles all the processing duties, the preamp section is stll the noticeable bottleneck as the prats in use there simply aren't going to be top notch.<br />

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There's reasons why these gizmos sell for less $$$4 and have loads of flexibility, connectivity, etc.<br />

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But in all, that is an acceptable compromise. <br />

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Even feeding my Onkyo TXSR 805 via my BC DAC 3 using HT Magic II ICs, the sQ is but marginally improved and there is indeed a ceiling on the audio purity... albeit, it is better... just marginally.<br />

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So I reverted. Put the good stuff back onto the 2ch. rig.<br />

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Use the Hiface off the laptop with a $30 USB ext cable, and I'm very happy with the results.... and being reasonable about it.<br />

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This is exactly what I was talking about in my previous post. Thank you for the thorough review. It seems like Marantz is far from making things work nicely with today's technology. For what it's worth, I don't understand why people seem to be attacking you (Chris) for choosing to review this.<br />

Joshua

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Gee Joshua I don't see anyone attacking Chris... were some posts deleted?<br />

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Any review done here or elsewhere is always a subjective take on the device, accessory or whatever. It’s not cast into stone. Not too many articles which even allow for remarks, as CA reviews do. They have so far, offer subscribers the opportunity to ask about things not covered, or things which might have been misunderstood. I suppose one could also congratulate the writer for whatever too… though I don’t get that part at all. Albeit, I suppose it’s a nice gesture if it was sincerely tendered.<br />

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I’ve gotten used to seeing reviewers account for the history of, or the why comes of the device being exposed. Statements like “I saw it at a show recently’ or I knew the designer… perhaps they owned the previous iteration… bought one for a second system or a friend just got one and the writer found it very interesting…. And so on, Yada yada.<br />

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Often too, in the greater portion of reviews likewise comparisons are made between the reviewed piece and some other previously reviewed item or some popular similar components.<br />

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These two factors seem to elude Chris articles from time to time, partially or completely. No why’s or How comes, and or, no comparisons of similarly reviewed items, or both are left without being addressed entirely.<br />

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Not routinely of course… but periodically. As with this one no mention of how it came to be in the CA cave.<br />

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Consequently I ask such things as I’m allowed to by virtue of the comments section attched to each of CA’s published reviews.<br />

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Unless I know for a fact the reviewer, I’m always at odds to feel a completely objective perspective was demonstrated in the end… especially if or when, the author of said piece closes with some mention of the fact the reviewed item is not being returned. The cynic in me always suspects some chicanery or nepotism, then and there. But that’s just me.<br />

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The best part of it all in my opinion is people here are allowed to agree to disagree… on anything… such is the subjective nature of reviews. Even on the technical side or configuration side of the affair.<br />

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I would like to have had some insight into “why the Marantz vs ??” or which other units were on the short list… and/or was it bought outright at MSRP? Loaned? A demonstrator? What?<br />

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Otherwise… from the article, I’ve come away with only a better feeling about my Onkyo TX SR 805, and my prospective purchase of an Integra or next generation EMotiva X series proc due out later this year…. As my Onkyo 805 rec has trickled down into my BR system.<br />

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No processor I’ve seen or heard of yet does it all. Networking yes… supporting all the common and popular file types codecs ?? Disc formats? Lossless file types too? Audio and video?<br />

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Marantz from what I’m seeing here and elsewhere is not going to bypass their piece of the entry level buying public pie any longer. So they slipped in a modestly priced and adequately performing machine… that’s it.<br />

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Streaming high def multi ch audio and video via HT processors and receivers is just not yet ‘really ready’ for prime time’. <br />

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Via HDMI where the PC and it’s joint software are handling the decoding duties… yes. … but by only the Ethernet or Wy Fy? Well it’s coming as this review shows, but it ain’t here… and the accessibility and quality are as well items for concern.<br />

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AS for Marantz in general? A friend has one, though it’s a bit more than this reviewed item’s cost, and makes a good showing of itself actually. I’ll go one step better than good as how I heard it… and say pretty nice! Yet, again, straight up interfaces are used, and little or no decoding is being done by my friends Marantz.. An Airport Exp I think, and an Oppo BDP 95 via analog, NAD multi ch Master Series amp, and a pr of JAMO Ref 909 speakers.<br />

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Overall any review is good info.. I’ve even totally agreed with a couple pro reviewers quite a lot, as I’ve owned items they have written about… I’ve also vehemently disagreed now and then with some authors on their articles of items I’ve owned or do own currently.<br />

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Usually there are questions one can always ask of the author…. If allowed. If so allowed then… we should. They don’t always answer anyhow. No reply actually is an answer if you think about it.<br />

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Hey Chris, Thanks for mentioning Laurence Juber's Guitar Noir album. I just downloaded number 2 and 8, both great tracks for me. I'd never heard of the guy before. Nor have I tried iTrax before. I'll be real curious to see how the quality is when I get home tonight.<br />

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And BlindJim, I agree about the usefulness in comparisons if possible. I looked actually at this Marantz model as my ht proc pre amp outs/incl the LFE doesn't work anymore. I'm also looking seriously, for ht alone, at the Integra 80.2. The only feature missing that I need, is a bypass so I don't have to constantly change wires when moving from movies to music. The new Audyssey MultiEq XT32 that has two indep. controls for dual subs. Pretty cool. The Marantz does not have the XT32 version.

Hi Chris,<br />

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Thanks for the review (long time reader, first time poster). Your review is like deju vu to me, I have been through all the thought processes you mention in your piece. What I was striving for was the feel of a 2-channel system with HT as just another input. What made it possible for me was the Parasound P7 Pre-Amp and GefenTV AUDDEC. The Parasound P7 has multi-channel analog inputs and integrated base management. The GefenTV AUDDEC takes an HDMI input and outputs HDMI video along with 5.1 channel analog.<br />

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Thus my 2-channel signal path is the USB output of my iMac using iTunes/PureMusic, to the USB input of a HTR Music Streamer Pro, to the balanced 2-channel inputs of the Parasound P7.<br />

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The 5.1 signal path is HDMI output of an AppleTV (Gen 2), to the HDMI input of the GefenTV AUDDEC, to the analog 5.1 channel inputs of the Parasound P7.<br />

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Again this system has the feel of a pure 2-channel system with the added benefit of a multi-channel movie input.<br />

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It sounds great too . . .<br />

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Andre

I too thought a good bit about a Marantz product for HT control. A few things including an inauspicious and too cool reception via their support arm and their pricey posture pushed me away from acquiring a Marantz proc or Receiver. I felt decidedly too, the ambition of the Marantz was pointed at the audio side of the fence rather than a balance of the two aspects… video and audio. <br />

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On the all in one approach or segregation philosophy <br />

After a lot of anguish and gnashing of teeth, separating the HT and 2 ch scenes better, was my resolution. So I flip speaker wires.. or will as soon as I acquire another set of monos to replace my now sold Dodds. In the interim it’s all HT all day around here in each outfit. The Thor and BC DAC 3 are on vacation or just sleeping. The Sonata IIIs however slid into the Bedroom… just to keep ‘em loosened up. The surrounds rotate thru the office setup to keep them loose as well… and increase my fun factor.<br />

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Until the makers of these seemingly all encompassing home entertainment controllers step up to the plate and actually address the Networking facility they are openly promoting currently as a benefit/feature, in an appropriate and thoughtful way, rather than as a ploy (read the fine print… our version of DLNA isn’t exactly up to snuff just yet), and the audio quality gets elevated I’ll continue to stream as I am now from my personal confusers either into a receivers DAC using a change over appliance, like the Hiface or some other modestly priced transformer, or a stand alone DAC. These instances in any event are relegated for very casual settings only.<br />

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I think it’ll be a while too. Just as the HD audio tracks being downloaded in 24/96 or greater, are beginning to gain some depth in their repertoire and catalogs, as that facet for album and song title buying matures, maturity in the DLNA & networking aspect of home entertainment processors must see some a meeting of the minds and some streamlining or acceptance of particular audio and video formats collectively, in order for the enterprise to grow. Makers gotta get on board with which file types are to be supported and lossless types must be included. Which word lengths, Bit Detpths, etc. <br />

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As it stands, you gotta pick out one based on what they advertise, then actually connect to it and find out for yourself if indeed such things can work or see how the maker thinks it/they should perform in their own environment. I just got a Panasonic BR player, 3D, Streaming video, streaming HD video, uh, DLNA unit. It’ll play MP3s alright… and supposedly some other video formats I do not use. So IMO, the DLNA logo is a non item for me. My Former Sony BDP 550 was no better. The Oppo 93 & 95 appear more formidable units… and so does the whispers on upcoming Emotiva and Integra procs. I will add one of the Oppo straming Blu Ray players, though I’ll debut the 95 first and then decide.<br />

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No other review site I know of even attempts to get into the DLNA side of the table as Chris does here… if you take notice. The results here show some promise IMO, yet again, I’m not impressed enough to skip on over to the ???? dealership and snatch one up. Apart from adding a better BR player as in the Oppo. I can wait on the aforementioned upcoming processor releases.<br />

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A goodly bit more thought needs be applied commonly, by all the HT PROCESSOR MAKERS in this area, if they wish to avoid another VHS vs. Beta, or HD vs. Blu Ray ‘train wreck’.<br />

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I somehow feel this will not happen soon, if at all. The market as usual, places audiophiles at the end of the line regularly. Seeking to clamor and abate the MP3, iPod crowd first.<br />

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Personally, I’d ask, So what? What’s an extra chip or two in an already chip festooned forrest, inside those mega feed and multiple deed, switchers anyhow?<br />

I like it that this forum is open to discussing receivers and processors. It is not only the video they offer but also the internet radio. I saw president of Netflix on Charlie Rose show other day and he stated it is just a matter of several more years and we'll be streaming ultra high definition Netflix movies to our TVs. Video upgrades, like going from DVD to Blu-ray, will cease being a once in every 10 year occurrence. <br />

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If we can contemplate streaming ultra high definition video in several years why can't we stream ultra high resolution audio from radio stations around the world? Why can't consumers have nearly unlimited high resolution downloads available on the internet, and, as referred to elsewhere on this forum, be guaranteed the files are indeed high resolution? <br />

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It seems the audio world is rudderless and needs some kind of organizing behemoth like a Netflix to move it forward to where everyone wants it to be.<br />

I am at the point where I think DLNA should be abandoned. <br />

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Apple Airplay - at least when using Apple products right now - works much better. <br />

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Don't get me wrong, DLNA had great potential. But the companies implementing it are - not experienced - in providing a great user experience. Okay, they are cutting cost corners everywhere and producing crappy products. <br />

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Apple on the other hand, eschews some capabilities but almost always provides a great user experience. The few AirPlay enabled devices I have seen worked flawlessly, excepting the Marantz that Chris reviewed. Even it worked when Chris hooked up an Apple Airport Extreme. <br />

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NAD, a company I rarely have much bad to say about, produced the a turkey of massive proportions when they based their streaming media player on DLNA. I was given one by a friend who didn't like it, and after playing with it for a hour, packed it up and sent it to our local charity. It was obviously designed by some idiot with a trade magazine in his hand. <br />

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I'm not saying Airplay is the <i>only</i> way to go, but I can sit here on my iPad, and watch any movie stored on the iTunes server, flip the video in an instant to a television, Mac, or even my iPhone, play any music in the system, control the music playing on the system, control videos playing on the system, play music from the Internet, and more. And it never seems to crash, get confused, out of sync, or otherwise do things that get in the way of the media I am trying to enjoy. <br />

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I cannot say the same thing about DLNA. Even the device we store ripped DVDs on gives me grief every once in a while. (A WD Live Hub). It is DLNA based, and cannot successfully play a movie stored in J. River MC, a product that people usually speak highly of. J.River MC by the way, appears to be unable to play three zones in perfect sync - a task my iPhone can do. <br />

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I could go on, I have a lot of bruises. <br />

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-Paul<br />

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Until Some serious consolidation and considerations on some chosen formats occurs, the industry will stumble along offering semi solutions… here and there… now and then.<br />

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A meeting of the manufacturing minds MUST take place. Plain and simple.<br />

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I archive my DVDs with 1 click Copy Pro. And DVD43. The resultant file types are the Video and Audio TS, and ‘Vobs’.<br />

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No so called DLNA appliance I have tried so far will replay these file types. These are native file types already on and imbedded into the DVD disc itself. <br />

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Why must these native files be converted and/or compressed, at all?<br />

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Cyberlink usually will play them back… I’ve mixed results with JR MC 15 playing them. I’m not real fond of the JR MC interface during video playback in terms of operation. … Cyberlink enables direct key access to DVD on hard drive or disc operations.<br />

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Some users have mentioned Divix and ‘Wkp’ ?? and some AVI video files were successfully replayed over these BR disc players which stream video and are DLNA labled… <br />

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Not having on hand, nor wishing actually, to convert or compress my DVD on hard drive titles, I’ve been unable to have those experiences first hand.<br />

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With a couple hundred movies uncompressed already on a NAS drive, I’m probably not going to want to do a whole lot of converting either.<br />

It seems the onus for support is mostly on the side of the software companies making the DLNA software that supposedly pushes this stuff to a device. Like many here, my Oppo will pretty much decode anything you throw at it. Getting the file to the Oppo without having to transcode it is not as easy as one would think. Heck, even finding DLNA software that will display your file tree as you created it (Artist-Album-Single), without making it's own hierarchy is nearly impossible. So I guess I find it hard to fault some of these hardware companies as it seems it is mostly (though not entirely of course) a dependency on the software that mucks up the entire experience. Again echoing Paul, if I have a player capable of playing whatever kind of file, why the heck can I not stream it to a device???? It's not rocket science. A simple list of file formats you could check off that your device doesn't support and the software ignores those files, gives you the files you want. I too am pretty bruised by the whole thing. Were it not for the superior sound I get from my Oppo (without needing to buy a separate DAC to feed my receiver, which I'd have to do to best the quality with my mini) I'd have given up on the whole experience. And despite there being lots of forums on the subject of DLNA I swear that I cannot find anything useful on those threads for my purposes, which is streaming uncompressed music or video (video being for the most part taken care of with mkv's and m2ts). I guess it is not surprising that the video side of things is much smoother going. I have NO issues streaming any kinda video. Very sad state indeed. I have a networking receiver that supposedly does what the Marantz does. It was so slow drilling down through the menu and getting a song to play that if I remember correctly I never actually got it to work for more than a minute. It supposedly does flac as well, as well as a number of other formats, if they are 16/44. And if you can wait for five minutes between songs while the next cues up I guess it works. Luckily for an HT rig, it sounds very good to nearly stunning at times, so that was a feature that didn't figure high on my purchasing decision. I was looking for a video switching unit that basically does a pass through of video without all the video circuitry for upscaling and such and whose main focus was audio quality for music. In all fairness to Oppo though, if you can get the darn music to the unit, the unit WILL, 99.9% of the time, do exactly what it says it will do. The onus is on you to figure out how to get the music to the player which is where the frustration comes in. So I tend to think this less a hardware thing for some units...if we had some great software it could have been a great standard. I do have a feeling that Paul is right and it will really take someone like Apple to do it right...which is unfortunate because as much as I love the hardware and user experience I am not so happy being locked into certain formats and being limited by the whims of said enterprise. But I guess if anyone is going to get the ball rolling its probably them. Unfortunately I have a feeling the DLNA thing will wither and die and those of us who have invested in machines with this capability will be left with a brick.

The frustration with UPnP/DLNA has been equal on the consumer and manufacturer side (at least high end manufacturers). I know of a couple companies working on Ravenna based products. It's a very robust audio over IP solution created for the pro industry.<br />

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http://ravenna.alcnetworx.com/

They may be frustrated but they sure don't hesitate to use the capability as a marketing gimmick! It's really a shame that something with so much potential is left to wither away in consumer confusion...but that is something the audio industry is known for if the past is any indication. Any chance that some of these Ravenna solutions will be able to communicate with devices we might already have (I know...fat chance right!)? Surely I can't be the only one with 'buying another box' fatigue?

For this, I can in good conscience, recommend the Western Digital WD TV Live or Western Digital WD TV Live Hub units. They work great for VOB files, which is exactly what we have one of the HUB units here for. <br />

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Streaming from them, that's a whole different thing. 50/50 chance it will work or if it does work, it will stream the entire DVD. Playing directly to the AVR however, it works great. Have to muck around with the metadata files a bit, and the automatic sync to a portable USB device is dodgy, to say the least. But if you manually copy the files around, it works great. <br />

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I rip on a macbook to a portable USB drive, then copy the rips to the internal drive on the WD Live HUB. <br />

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-Paul<br />