Jump to content
  • The Computer Audiophile
    The Computer Audiophile

    Amazon Cloud Drive and Google Music Beta are DOA

    cloud-thumb.jpgThe current crop of popular cloud music storage and playback services are dead on arrival. DOA for audiophiles, music aficionados, and even the average "civilian" iPod user. As an audiophile it's hard to accept anything but lossless music. As a music aficionado who wants his favorite tunes anywhere, anytime, in almost any quality (if necessary) these services sound promising at first blush but are quickly identified as nonstarters upon further review. I'm not an average "civilian" iPod user but I am well versed in the habits of such users. These civilians have the lowest music quality expectations but often very high ease of use and functionality needs that are far from met by the current cloud offerings. The services from Google and Amazon, and likely Apple's iCloud, are easily outmatched by lesser known free and inexpensive paid services. The large press-darlings consume all the ink but sadly aren't even in the same league as the competition.

    [PRBREAK][/PRBREAK]

     

     

     

     

    <b>Al Capone's <s>Vault</s> Cloud</b>

     

    Computer Audiophile readers likely remember when <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r5xBMNfOl4">Geraldo Rivera cracked open Al Capone's vault</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r5xBMNfOl4"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/icons/ex.png" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 3pt;" alt="link"></img></a> at the Lexington Hotel in Chicago in 1986. The amount of hype was inversely proportional to the amount of booty found in the vault. The whole underwhelming televised event will be remembered as two hours of our lives we'll never get back. Similar to the hype surrounding the opening of Al Capone's vault is the hype surrounding cloud music storage from Amazon, Google, and in my estimation Apple. Everyone is talking about the beauty of storing music in the cloud, accessing this music from anywhere, and even the lack of licensing agreements with the major record labels. Apple is said to be close to agreements with the labels but to be honest, who cares. Instead of CA readers spending two hours researching this modern day Capone vault that is cloud music storage, I've wasted my own time on their behalf. This article is going to give readers those two "Al Capone" hours of the 80's back.

     

     

     

    <b>Amazon Cloud Drive and Cloud Player</b>

     

    <img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/amazon-thumb.jpg" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 5pt 5pt;" align="left">The race to launch a music service capable of storing consumer's purchased content in the cloud was won by Amazon March 29, 2011. There are two pieces to the Amazon cloud puzzle, Amazon Cloud Drive and Amazon Cloud Player. The names are fairly self explanatory. Cloud Drive enables consumers to store all Amazon purchased music on Amazon's servers in addition to storing content uploaded from a local hard drive. Cloud Player enables consumers to stream the content stored in Amazon's cloud via any web browser or Android based device running the Amazon MP3 application featuring Cloud Player. That's the concept, now the details.

     

    <ul>

    <li>Currently all music purchased from the Amazon MP3 store is lossy 256 kbps MP3.</li>

    <li>Uploaded files are limited to the <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/mpe-uploader-files-not-supported.png">lossy MP3 and lossy AAC formats</a><a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/mpe-uploader-files-not-supported.png"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/icons/ex.png" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 3pt;" alt="link"></img></a>.</li>

    <li>It's possible to upload less-lossy 320 kbps files with the required <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/mp3-uploader.png">Amazon MP3 Uploader</a><a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/mp3-uploader.png"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/icons/ex.png" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 3pt;" alt="link"></img></a>.</li>

    <li>Offline listening to files one already owns.</li>

    <li>No files over 100MB permitted.</li>

    <li>First 5GB of storage free then prices increase <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/amazone-plans.png">incrementally to $1,000 per year for 1TB</a><a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/amazone-plans.png"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/icons/ex.png" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 3pt;" alt="link"></img></a>.</li>

    <li>Sorting by Track, Album, Artist, Genre, and Time. Yes, this is listed as a feature.</li>

    <li>Playback via web browser on computer or iOS devices (no iPhone app) and Android application.</li>

    </ul>

     

    That's what all the Amazon cloud music hype is about. Streaming low quality files that one has purchased via a clunky web interface or an Android device. Suggesting that offline listening, where the player caches a copy of selected music on the local device, is a nice feature is comical. If consumers already own the music it follows they can store this music on an Android device without the use of any cloud. When testing this service I converted about 1GB worth of music to 320 kbps MP3 and uploaded the tracks with the required help of Amazon's MP3 Uploader. Uploading this music was a long process even with my current Internet upload speed at 10Mbps. The vast majority of Internet users have upload speeds much slower than 10Mbps. Download speeds are something entirely different for those less learned audiophiles. For the most part if a feature was not mentioned above it's unavailable. Sounds a bit like Al Capone's vault.

     

     

     

    <b>Google Music Beta</b>

     

    <img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/google-music-thumb.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 5pt 5pt;" align="left">Second place in the cloud music race was won by Google with its Google Music Beta service. The term Beta is built right in to the name. So far the service is available via invite only. After this article I wonder if my invite will ever arrive. Google's and Amazon's music services are very similar. The one major difference is the lack of a music store in Google's service. Google doesn't have an online store equivalent to Amazon's MP3 store. Thus all music stored in Google's cloud must be uploaded from one's computer. Google's Music Beta advertises the same benefit of access to one's purchased music from anywhere at anytime. Similar concept, similar details.

     

    <ul>

    <li>Uploaded files are limited to the lossy MP3, lossy AAC, lossy WMA, and FLAC* formats.</li>

    <li>It's possible to upload music up to 320 kbps with the required Google Music Manager application.</li>

    <li>Offline listening to files one already owns.</li>

    <li>20,000 tracks worth of free storage while in Beta.</li>

    <li>Sorting by Track, Album, Artist, Genre, Rating, Plays, and Time. Yes, this is listed as a feature.</li>

    <li>Playback via web browser on computer or iOS devices (no iPhone app) and Android application.</li>

    <li>Ability to edit metadata.</li>

    <li>Automatic or manual synchronizing of music between computer and cloud.</li>

    <li>Sound quality decreases as available bandwidth decreases.</li>

    </ul>

     

    Just like Amazon's Cloud service Google is excited to let the consumer cache his own music on his own local device. Both services have enabled this feature mainly to check the box that says Offline Playback to compete with much better services that have much better implementations of offline playback. I can see one benefit to Google's and Amazon's offline playback feature. Sitting at the airport and downloading that forgotten new album to one's phone before the flight would be nice. Lack of an online store to purchase and store music may be an issue for some people, but without better quality from such a store it's of no consequence to audiophiles.

     

    *By far the biggest disappointment with Google Music Beta is its purported support for FLAC files. Simply put <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/google-music-supported-file-formats.png">Google Music Beta does not support FLAC</a><a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/google-music-supported-file-formats.png"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/icons/ex.png" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 3pt;" alt="link"></img></a> files. According to Google itself FLAC files are transcoded to 320 kbps MP3 files before uploading! Hopefully writers reviewing Google Music will read the fine print about FLAC "support" and turn it into large print**. Google bring us one step closer to Al Capone's vault opening by claiming a booty of FLAC file support, but delivering unremarkable transcoded lossy MP3s.

     

    <p style="font-size:15px"><b>** Google Music Beta does not support FLAC. Transcoding FLAC into 320 kbps does not count as supporting FLAC.</b></p>

     

     

     

    <b>The Competition -> MOG, Audiogalaxy, and Subsonic</b>

     

    <img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/mog-bak.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 5pt 5pt;" align="left">Competitors to Amazon and Google cloud services have been around for years. These applications and services frequently offer more features for free or a nominal fee. The only feature competing services don't offer is the ability to store one's music in the cloud. Fortunately there are other non-music related services like <a href="http://www.carbonite.com/">Carbonite</a><a href="http://www.carbonite.com/"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/icons/ex.png" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 3pt;" alt="link"></img></a> or even <a href="http://aws.amazon.com/s3/">Amazon's S3</a><a href="http://aws.amazon.com/s3/"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/icons/ex.png" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 3pt;" alt="link"></img></a> that can store one's music collection in the cloud. I've selected two types of services and applications that both accomplish much more than Amazon or Google offerings. MOG is an online music service that I absolutely can't live without. This service offers access to ten million tracks in higher quality than Amazon's Cloud and at least as good as anything allowable in Google Music Beta. Applications such as Audiogalaxy and Subsonic are run locally on one's computer. These applications offer streaming access to all the music one owns on that computer. Access via web browser or mobile device is supported. Best of all these applications have been around for awhile and are free. Amazon and Google cloud services don't look so good after the most cursory of looks at MOG, Audiogalaxy, and Subsonic. Now for the real details that have me listening to more music than ever.

     

     

     

    <b>MOG</b>

     

    <img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/mog_logo.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 5pt 5pt;" align="left">

    <a href="http://mog.com/">MOG</a><a href="http://mog.com/"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/icons/ex.png" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 3pt;" alt="link"></img></a> is an online service that completely does away with the need for Amazon Cloud Drive and Google Music Beta. MOG doesn't allow uploads of one's own music but does allow one to access ten million tracks for $5 (web only) or $10 (web and mobile) monthly. Wy upload music if it's already there? MOG has almost every track I've ever search for in its database. There are no Beatles tunes of course, but as most everyone owns The Beatles it's easily synchronized to a mobile device in lossless quality anyway. MOG is not an audiophile's service as it doesn't offer lossless streaming. It is however a service for music aficionados and civilian iPod users. Please keep in mind that audiophile and music aficionado are not mutually exclusive terms. I count myself as an audiophile and music aficionado. Unlike Amazon, MOG streams music at 320 kbps and allows mobile device downloads at 320 kbps for offline listening. Every Tuesday when new music releases are available I download many of these releases at 320 kbps to my iPhone. After listening to the albums I frequently make a trip to the local record store and purchase the physical Compact Disc or download the lossless version if available elsewhere. MOG also features a web interface that is far better than Amazon's. Discovering new music is quite simple throughout MOG as well. Enabling MOG Radio allows the listener to hear music very similar to or somewhat similar to a specific artist. MOG Radio is in a way similar to Pandora with the exception that MOG allows access to specific tracks at all times. Rhapsody is also similar to MOG with the exception that Rhapsody offers streams at 256 kbps instead of MOG's 320 kbps. Here is a little comparison of MOG and the Amazon and Google Cloud offerings.

     

    <ul>

    <li>Amazon Cloud Drive / Player and Google Music Beta = Limited online storage, additional space for price.</li>

    <li>MOG = No need for online storage.</li>

     

    <li>Amazon Cloud Drive / Player and Google Music Beta = Offline listening to music one already owns.</li>

    <li>MOG = Offline listening to any of ten million tracks.</li>

     

    <li>Amazon Cloud Drive / Player and Google Music Beta = Android app for mobile or clunky web interface.</li>

    <li>MOG = iOS and Android mobile apps plus nice web interface. Google <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/MOG_chrome_album-1.png">Chrome browser extension</a><a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/MOG_chrome_album-1.png"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/icons/ex.png" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 3pt;" alt="link"></img></a> is very nice.</li>

     

    <li>Amazon Cloud Drive / Player and Google Music Beta = Purchase 256 kbps music or upload up to 320 kbps music.</li>

    <li>MOG = Unlimited 320 kbps streaming and offline listening.</li>

     

    <li>Amazon Cloud Drive / Player and Google Music Beta = Upload all music and synchronize when needed.</li>

    <li>MOG = Music available as soon as released by record label.</li>

    </ul>

     

     

    <img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/mog_icon.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 5pt 5pt;" align="left">I simply can't imagine purchasing or uploading files to Amazon or Google when I can listen to the exact same files plus nearly ten million more files for $10 per month. The music aficionado in me can't get enough exposure to new music and will settle for a 320 kbps stream when necessary. Maybe if my iPhone had a dCS Ring DAC and linear power supply I would think otherwise. The civilian iPod user really has no need to purchase an album or individual track through the iTunes or Amazon MP3 Store at 256 kbps and upload that track to a cloud service. It makes no sense when a 320 kbps stream is available for online and offline listening. Plus, users not schooled in backing up to an external hard drive etc… don't have to worry about losing purchased music with MOG. Services similar to MOG include Rdio, Rhapsody, and Napster.

     

    <center><a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/mog_desktop_home.png" class="thickbox" rel="MOG"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/mog_desktop_home-T.png"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/Roku_MOG_UI_2010-1.jpeg" class="thickbox" rel="MOG"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/Roku_MOG_UI_2010-T.jpg"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/MOG_chrome_playlists.png" class="thickbox" rel="MOG"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/MOG_chrome_playlists-T.png"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/MOG_chrome_home.png" class="thickbox" rel="MOG"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/MOG_chrome_home-T.png"></a></center>

    <center><a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/MOG_chrome_album.png" class="thickbox" rel="MOG"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/MOG_chrome_album-T.png"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/MOG_chrome_browse.png" class="thickbox" rel="MOG"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/MOG_chrome_browse-T.png"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/MOG_chrome_browse_player.png" class="thickbox" rel="MOG"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/MOG_chrome_browse_player-T.png"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/MOG_chrome_queueradio.png" class="thickbox" rel="MOG"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/MOG_chrome_queueradio-T.png"></a></center>

    <center><a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/mog_sonos_menu.png" class="thickbox" rel="MOG"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/mog_sonos_menu-T.png"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/mog_sonos_nowplaying.png" class="thickbox" rel="MOG"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/mog_sonos_nowplaying-T.png"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/iphone4_home.png" class="thickbox" rel="MOG"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/iphone4_home-T.png"></a></center>

    <center><a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/iphone4_device_queue_radio.png" class="thickbox" rel="MOG"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/iphone4_device_queue_radio-T.png"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/iphone4_device_queue.png" class="thickbox" rel="MOG"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/iphone4_device_queue-T.png"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/iphone4_device_nowplaying.png" class="thickbox" rel="MOG"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/iphone4_device_nowplaying-T.png"></a>   <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/iphone4_device_home.png" class="thickbox" rel="MOG"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/iphone4_device_home-T.png"></a></center>

     

     

     

    <b>Audiogalaxy and Subsonic</b>

     

    <a href="http://www.audiogalaxy.com">Audiogalaxy</a><a href="http://www.audiogalaxy.com"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/icons/ex.png" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 3pt;" alt="link"></img></a> and <a href="http://www.subsonic.org">Subsonic</a><a href="http://www.subsonic.org"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/icons/ex.png" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 3pt;" alt="link"></img></a> are applications that enable users to stream their entire music library directly from their computer to anywhere in the world. The applications themselves are free. Extra features and some mobile applications are available for purchase. There are many other applications like Subsonic and Audiogalaxy. Some of them have been scooped up by the big players like Google while others continue to innovate and add better features. Audiogalaxy and Subsonic are simple apps to install on Mac, Windows, or Linux (Subsonic only) computers. Once installed the apps can scan folders for music and make it available via web browser and mobile application. There is no need to synchronize by uploading tracks to a cloud server. The one possible drawback is the computers running these applications music remain on at all times one wants to access the music.

     

    <img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/Subsonic.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 5pt 5pt;" align="left">As an audiophile <a href="http://www.audiogalaxy.com">Audiogalaxy</a><a href="http://www.audiogalaxy.com"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/icons/ex.png" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 3pt;" alt="link"></img></a> and <a href="http://www.subsonic.org">Subsonic</a><a href="http://www.subsonic.org"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/icons/ex.png" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 3pt;" alt="link"></img></a> have more promise than Amazon or Google cloud services for one reason, lossless file support. I say more promise rather than something else because obtaining lossless playback through these applications is far from certain. Within Subsonic it's possible to disable transcoding of lossless files, but I was unable to play these files without getting a Ph.D. in Subsonic. A main feature of Subsonic is the ability to play lossless files by transcoding them into MP3 for streaming. I was unable to find a definitive answer stating it is 100% possible to stream lossless without transcoding. Streaming is accomplished through Subsonic's <a href="http://www.subsonic.org/pages/apps.jsp">plethora of mobile apps</a><a href="http://www.subsonic.org/pages/apps.jsp"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/icons/ex.png" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 3pt;" alt="link"></img></a> for iPhone, iPad, and Android devices. Again, Subsonic has promise but it's not perfect. One note about Subsonic is it can be installed on Sonore Music Servers.

     

    <img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/download.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 5pt 5pt;" align="left">Audiogalaxy is a bit different and bit easier to use. The general purpose of the application is the same. Streaming audio from one's computer to anywhere in the world. I was able to easily select and stream my music stored as FLAC files using both the Audiogalaxy <a href="http://www.audiogalaxy.com">web interface</a><a href="http://www.audiogalaxy.com"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/icons/ex.png" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 3pt;" alt="link"></img></a> and <a href="http://itunes.apple.com/app/audiogalaxy-mobile/id373357030">iPhone</a><a href="http://itunes.apple.com/app/audiogalaxy-mobile/id373357030"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/icons/ex.png" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 3pt;" alt="link"></img></a> or <a href="https://market.android.com/details?id=com.audiogalaxy">Android</a><a href="https://market.android.com/details?id=com.audiogalaxy"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/icons/ex.png" style="padding: 0pt 0pt 0pt 3pt;" alt="link"></img></a> applications. However, I am unsure if there is any transcoding before the music arrives at my phone. There are no transcoding options within the Audiogalaxy settings. This could be a good sign for audiophiles.

     

     

     

    <b>A Note About Apple's iCloud</b>

     

    <img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/Apple-logo.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 5pt 5pt;" align="left">It appears that Apple will call its forthcoming cloud music service iCloud. Most the information available at the time of this writing surrounds Apple's licensing deals with the major record labels. Unlike Amazon and Google, Apple is seeking to fully license the material it offers via iCloud. Based on Apple's history I'd say audiophiles shouldn't expect much from iCloud. I'd love to be wrong and announce to the world iCloud supports lossless file formats.

     

     

     

    <b>Hey (Hey) You (You) Get Off of My Cloud</b>

     

    <img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0524/ca-oval.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 5pt 5pt;" align="left">There are many reasons why this site is named Computer Audiophile. Chief among them is a passion for reproducing music with a computer at the highest possible quality. Even though I really like some of the music services mentioned in this article it's still highly unlikely I'll use any of them for playback in my main audio system. However as a music aficionado discovery of new music is completely different. It would be nice if all music discovery came through 24/192 capable music services and downloads. Right now that's only a dream. Access to a virtually unlimited music library and the ability to stream that library anywhere in the world is only a convenience at this point. Services like MOG have made Amazon Cloud Drive and Google Music Beta dead on arrival. Even the lowest common denominator, civilian iPod users, have better options than these two cloud services. Allowing users to stream lower quality versions of their own files and to store these lower quality versions on a mobile device is marketing at its best. What's more, charging these users for the "privilege" of accessing their own music is a joke. Without lossless support there is no need for a cloud music service that doesn't literally allow access to ten million tracks like MOG. Amazon Cloud Drive and Google Music Beta just don't make sense. Services with such limited features are singing the praises of their offerings out of one side of their mouth while singing Hey (hey) you (you) get off of my cloud out of the other side. The big cloud music services thus far are like the reopening of Al Capone's vault in 2011. All bark and no BYTE.

     

     

     

     




    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    Hi ManWithAPlan - thanks for mentioning this. I did tell Subsonic not to transcode my music. That's pretty simple. The part I could not 100% guarantee is lossless transmission of the audio. Have you found any definitive documentation that says the app can stream to an iPad lossless & bit perfect? <br />

    <br />

    It sounds like you know quite a bit about the app. Thanks for joining the conversation.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Hi Peter - I really wish I could get the gist of what you're saying, but I really can't make heads or tails of your comments. I wish I could read Dutch :~)

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Man, I tried so hard. :-)<br />

    <br />

    Well, as long as you get the grasp that I explicitly wanted to thank you for the hard work and extensive reporting, I guess it's fine.<br />

    <br />

    Peter<br />

    <br />

    PS: Can I subscribe for a course somewhere in here ?

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Chris,<br />

    <br />

    When streaming via the iSub app for the iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch, you must transcode to 320kbps MP3. So for the iSub app "Player" you will notice in the web UI that that player has transcoding automatically enabled for flac-to-mp3 to facilitate streaming to a handheld device. If you turn off transcoding for iSub in particular, it won't work on the handhelds. So no native FLAC playback for that. But of course if you're on your local network, you can just use Linn's app or eLyric app from PS Audio to stream bit perfect lossless music (but only on the local LAN). I am hopeful iSub will be enhanced at some point to allow bit perfect lossless FLAC and other files to handheld devices. In the meantime, let's be somewhat realistic that most folks will not hear a difference when played on an ipad or iphone walking down the street with mediocre headphones, ambient noises galore, etc. <br />

    <br />

    The advantage to Subsonic server lies in its flexibility to play to all kinds of "Players" (local LAN as well as remote), allowing custom playlist creation/sharing, user ratings of songs, chatting within the app about music, and yes, its ability to deliver bit perfect lossless FLAC, WAV, AIFF, etc when configured properly with an External player of one's choosing (Decibel, Winamp, WMP, VLC, whatever). And yes, choose VLC for instance, and you'll see in the "info" option of VLC that the high rez streams are indeed being played at 24bit/192KHz for instance. VLC is good about giving the exact details of any stream, audio or video. Oh, and right in the same attractive web interface, folks can enjoy live concert videos of favorite artists, etc. for the remote users that like a more multimedia "one stop shop for all things high quality audio/video". <br />

    <br />

    I'm just a user guys, not in anyway related to the development of Subsonic (though I have chosen to donate to the project), but I'm telling you, I've found nothing close to it and I've been on this mission for 4 years plus (remember KavaTunes?? Simplify? Ughh). My users are spread out all over the globe, and I have folks from eastern Europe streaming high rez to mediocre broadband connections and loving it. Don't let anyone tell you it's complicated, many of you have much more complicated setups/soundcards, drivers, etc. Takes about 2 hours to have the server fully functional and be enjoying the content.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    @ManWithAPlan - I am going to check out Subsonic, you make it sound pretty sweet.<br />

    <br />

    There is no way on earth I am going to deal with the restrictions and annoyances of these Cloud services (licensing, down-sampling, upload limitations, and relentless marketing based on my collection).<br />

    <br />

    I am surprised that no one here mentions Plex for remote streaming of iTunes media. Plex is pretty easy to setup on a Mac - you download and install and it just finds everything in iTunes (I had to read their FAQ, however, to securely enable remote streaming).<br />

    <br />

    I haven't played with anything hi-res and, of course, you have to pay for the iPhone / iPad apps (five bucks each, if I recall correctly).<br />

    <br />

    Earlier versions were pretty buggy, to be frank, but the current version seems solid and effortlessly streams my ALAC tracks without transcoding to my iPhone, which then outputs to an Audyssey South of Market dock (Airplay or docked; either of which sounds nice for office use). I listen this at work all day long, as well as most nights :(<br />

    <br />

    Oh yeah, it streams my iTunes movie collection at 720p, as well, and looks good on the iPad over Wi-Fi.<br />

    <br />

    No, I am not associated with Plex or Audyssey...

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    The current issue of Business Week talks about iCloud and speculates that Apple will discuss it at their developer conference this month. It also mentions that they are/will be cutting deals with all 4 major labels.<br />

    <br />

    I think their concept is pretty novel in that you do not have to upload music to their cloud. Instead, their service performs a scan of what you have loaded in iTunes and then makes that music available to you online. The article also says that if your iTunes music is of a lower quality (presumably mp3), you will have access to the higher quality version (presumably Apple lossless) online. All in all, sounds innovative and promising.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Not available in the US as yet is the Sony Qriocity cloud music server service, which has over a gazillion songs and surprise can play back on recent Sony hardware devices. And a web browser of course.<br />

    <br />

    The only plus I can see with this service is to audition new music in full (and yet to be discovered old masterpieces) to eventually buy on CD/hires. You can't download any songs, other than to record the audio which sounds like 256k streaming MP3/AAC. The sound dynamic is as flat as an ironing board.<br />

    <br />

    It can't play gapless. There's a 2-3s gap between songs on albums when played on a Sony BD player, it's a little less on the web browser.<br />

    <br />

    Streaming on a mobile device may appeal to some with deep wallets, I fear drop outs would be very common and annoying.<br />

    <br />

    The name sucks, Qriocity. Eeuuw.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    How does one tell Google Music to only take specific tracks from an iTunes library? It seems intent on loading the entire library I point it at, and even with a modest subset, that will take a LOT of upload time. <br />

    <br />

    Also, it seems to be using my computer to convert tracks to MP3 format, any way to force it to do it on a Google server? <br />

    <br />

    -Paul<br />

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    "How does one tell Google Music to only take specific tracks from an iTunes library?"<br />

    <br />

    That's the crux of the problem from my viewpoint. Google and Amazon will scan your drive and upload, where as Apple and Sony scan and link to existing tracks in their catalog.<br />

    <br />

    Pros and cons, right? I am confident that I have a lot of material that won't appear in the Sony Qriocity or Apple iCloud catalog - what happens then?<br />

    <br />

    Conversely, I don't want to upload and have my pristine audio down-converted to a lossy format - especially for high bit rate tracks that will be converted from one codec to another (e.g. AAC to MP3).<br />

    <br />

    For iPods/iPhones/Androids with ear buds, I suppose it doesn't matter.<br />

    <br />

    Frankly, if Apple would just make it easy to sync my iTunes library across multiple computers, especially over the Internet, I would be all set. Disc is cheap.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Nobody really knows what is happening with Apple till next week, but we can hope. Apple usually does whatever it does very well, and I am sure this has been brought up as an issue. (grin)<br />

    <br />

    I'm not terribly impressed with any of these cloud based services at this time. <br />

    <br />

    -Paul

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I notice that MOG is now available through Roku. And, the new Roku device now includes an optical digital out. It would seem that connecting the Roku/MOG stream through my Rega DAC should provide a fairly satisfying source. Has anyone tried this arrangement? Any drawbacks aside from the lossy format?

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    "Apple usually does whatever it does very well..."<br />

    <br />

    You mean like the way Apple does HD movies at 720p with 448 kbps AC-3 audio?

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    <br />

    I'm not sure if you meant that sarcastically or not, but it is a pretty good feat that they do that day after day with a vanishingly small error rate. :) <br />

    <br />

    -Paul<br />

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Sorry... yes, I was being a little sarcastic. I have three Apple TVs and my family loves using 'em (a classic for music listening and two 2nd gen models for TV and movies).<br />

    <br />

    But the ATV model is about avoiding streaming customer service issues and not PQ (i.e. 8 GB of buffering flash and an over-compressed movie adds to smooth playback, albeit at questionable quality).<br />

    <br />

    If you want to experience high quality streaming video, you should check out Vudu (I am not associated with Vudu or any other AV company).<br />

    <br />

    So, and I am guessing here..., when it comes to iCloud, the emphasis will again be on usability - a good streaming experience over AT&T's 3G network. This will be the right model for just about everyone, except for the folks that fancy themselves as 'audiophiles'. :)

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    We have a couple ATV2s, and love 'em to death. We get really great hidef video on them, but over a fast internet connection. The internet connection really makes a huge difference in the quality. <br />

    <br />

    Should check with Chris - he has the fastest iNet connection around. :) <br />

    <br />

    -Paul<br />

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    "iTunes Match"<br />

    <br />

    They query your iTunes and match it against 18 million songs and upload only the ones that don't have a match.<br />

    <br />

    Coming this fall. The little comparison chart at the bottom is rather humorous.<br />

    <br />

    http://www.apple.com/icloud/features/<br />

    <br />

    Does not look like it is lossless, however.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Well, I am a little disappointed with today's keynote / announcement.<br />

    <br />

    Some of it was what we expected: scan & match, with a fee for access to 256 kbps AAC in place of your existing tracks. That part is pretty cool and I will consider signing up (I have > 10,000 tracks and a fair amount of old stuff encoded as low bit rate MP3s - for 24.99 / year, why not?).<br />

    <br />

    But El Jobso kept describing examples of tapping to download tracks missing from a particular iOS device. I was really hoping for a streaming model. That is, my music is in the cloud and I can just tap and play (even if it's restricted to Wi-Fi, that would be better than nothing).<br />

    <br />

    The 'tap and download' model means I am back to managing my collection - the real problem I have today, because my iPhone and iPod Touch cannot hold the entire collection. So, every time I purchase a new CD, I need to decide what stays and what goes from my devices. I'm sick of that, because I am a music junkie and I insist on storing my tracks in a lossless format.<br />

    <br />

    We'll see what actually unfolds as we near launch of iCloud.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Well, it isn't clear to me how this might pan out, but, what if there was an API that music players (J River, Foobar etc) could use to match to iCloud. This could match your lossless content to mobile versions. Your lossless files are still available when you are at home listening to the 'proper' system and all of your music is a click away when you're out. Well worth $24.99. <br />

    <br />

    BUT, and I suspect this may have escaped some, format shifting is still technically illegal in the UK. Thus I suspect that iTunes Match won't be available in the UK until the law changes.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    <br />

    <cite>We have a couple ATV2s, and love 'em to death. We get really great hidef video on them, but over a fast internet connection. The internet connection really makes a huge difference in the quality.</cite><br />

    <br />

    A few days back I wanted to say exactly the same, but wasn't sure whether it was said somewhere already; I sure don't read everything and all.<br />

    <br />

    One little "problem" - but therefore maybe even more interesting - I don't have high speed internet at all here (8000kb/s). Maybe the trailers I tested were too short to run out of buffer ? haha<br />

    I didn't do the math, but my speed seems too low to really do it, and still it does.<br />

    <br />

    But I observed another interesting thing ...<br />

    <br />

    It was completely to our surprise that it worked so glitchessly in the first place. This, while we watch quite some internet streaming which even on a small monitor (read : less resolution) is pure sh*t *if* you'll have a sufficient share of bandwidth to begin with (all the others watching the same).<br />

    But now we tested some regular streams via the ATV, and they are as sh*t as always. Say the regular news.<br />

    So, something else is going on, and one thing might or will be the taking it down to a real low resolution in order to be able to spread it over the net anyway. But it's not only that, because it's just stuttering like hell and always.<br />

    Not these hidef trailers (720 btw) ...<br />

    <br />

    It immediately urged for the question : "so, are we going to be able to buy and stream ?", but the answer to that seems No.<br />

    <br />

    The main sort of conclusion remains :<br />

    When this plays so beautifully, (hires) audio must be able to do it too.<br />

    <br />

    But is that really so ? Maybe not;<br />

    The H.264 encoding which will be in order here, is hardware decoded. It is highly efficient, or IOW much more efficient than any good audio compression can do. Except for MP3 of course ... (which will be embedded in H.264 - at least virtually).<br />

    <br />

    Anyway, I was shocked to see such a good quality streamed from the net. A real eye opener.<br />

    But then maybe I'm running behind by now (movie playback by PC's being my ever back deep interest).<br />

    <br />

    Peter

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I am disappointed too. The only good thing is the $25/year for all my music available for download, this may kill Google and Amazon. <br />

    <br />

    PROS<br />

    - Cheap<br />

    - Likely 95% of music will be scanned = fast<br />

    - Downloaded files quality is better than streaming, no dropouts. <br />

    <br />

    CONS<br />

    - Downloads at 250K means aprox. 6 CDs per GB, so the library you can load in iPhone, iPad is too small. You'll have to delete music to download more. Not good. <br />

    - Only lossy AAC format. <br />

    - Tied to Apple devices. <br />

    <br />

    What I’d want is a swap scheme by which the labels give me lossless files for my original CDs and downloads purchases for a nominal fee. And then be offered lossy and lossless streaming and download to my choice. This would avoid the time consuming ripping process and I’d get perfect metadata. <br />

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Strangely, it appears that Google music is actually uploading some of my FLAC files (without transcoding them) and I can play them. <br />

    <br />

    So far, this happens with files which have insufficient metadata. They appear in the player with the .flac extension. <br />

    <br />

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I'm looking forward to what the iCloud has to offer, if the keynote is anything to go by.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Install iTunes V 3.0.1 for a taste of it. The redownload any past purchases is nice. The 256kbs music is a lot better than 128kbs. The lack of full quality downloads is still ridiculous. <br />

    <br />

    -Paul<br />

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    If a Reuters news article is accurate (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/10/industry-us-icloud-idUSTRE7596TK20110610) Apple will charge you a $25 annual fee for songs listed in iTunes that were NOT purchased from iTunes.<br />

    <br />

    For Audiophiles this includes bought CDs, SACDs, hirez tracks from HDtracks, 2L, Blue Coast and others, and if you are desperate enough, P2P 128MP3.<br />

    This means, you pay for, again, the right to listen to music you have already bought the right to listen to. Apple takes 30% of this $25, the rest is collected and divided according to market share to the publishing houses and record labels, and somehwere the artist right at the end (as usual).<br />

    <br />

    There are now 225million iTunes accounts, 30% annual fee is USD67 million, and Apple's contribution to the artist...? Hmm.<br />

    <br />

    And, you get 5GB worth of free iCloud space for your other non iTunes bought Hires tracks, which you can listen to in 256AAC on only an Apple playback devices, incapable of playing 24bit material.<br />

    <br />

    iCloud is a nice money earner, a really Big Brother knows what music you have and are listening to and the listener pays for it all, again.<br />

    <br />

    Is this the best they can come up with? Bye iTunes, nice knowing you, but time to move on.<br />

    <br />

    <br />

    <br />

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites




    Guest
    This is now closed for further comments




×
×
  • Create New...