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  • Gilbert Klein
    Gilbert Klein

    The Music In Me: Rap of History Backwards The

    A Warning:

    The last two songs in this article might offend some people, so keep that in mind if you’re playing it in a public space— Gilbert.

     

    An Introduction:

    Look, I know I know too little about this subject to say I’m an expert, so I’m not. I’m not going to opine on the form or its practitioners, proponents, prophets or phans. (Sorry, I just had to do that. You get it, with the phat thing, right?) I know there must be rap artists who are soulful more than angry, and I know some people are making beautiful music that’s called rap or hip-hop, and I’m sorry but I must conflate the two. I don’t know about it or the scene, and I don’t have to, because I only want to tell you about the first rap song that I heard, and do a little history. I like a little history. I’ll bet there isn’t a rock fan out there who doesn’t know who Chuck Berry is and his music, but I’d bet there aren’t many rap fans who know who Gil Scott-Heron is. But first, the history, and I’ll ask you to keep in mind that in the entertainment industry, innovation is quickly replicated and exploited.

     

    The History:

    Oh, I am so not the right guy to expound on the history of rap. But I heard a few lines from a song I hadn’t heard in years, see, and it made me think about it. And I have this column, see? I’m telling you now I’m no expert. I’m just a guy. Okay, a guy with a column. Like a lot of old people, I don’t get rap music. I didn’t get it when it started and I’m probably too old now; I ignore it now because when it first broke big, I just didn’t like it. There was too much violence, too many gats, glocks and putting a cap in someone’s ass. It all seemed to be swagger about n--gers, bitches, blunts and bling. I understood anti-social sentiment, honest- I’ve enjoyed a bit of it myself in my youth, but where was the music? Suddenly everyone was clever for stealing using bits from other people’s music. That didn’t used to be cool in the 60’s, man. I appreciated the innovation, but I just didn’t find the music in there. Okay, if melody was going to be subverted by cleverness, I gave it a listen, but what I was hearing just seemed… angry. I understood the anger coming out of urban, less privileged areas like Brooklyn, the Bronx and lower Manhattan. I got that. I got why it was coming from places like Compton. But I missed melody, you know?

     

    So rap sells a lot of music and is one of our most popular music forms. But nothing comes from out of a vacuum, so where did it come from? First, let’s look at the word “rap.” Yeah, it’s a bad thing if it refers to a criminal charge, but that wasn’t what it meant when we used it back in the mid-Sixties. It came from “rapport” and it usually meant that you were under the influence of the demon drug, marijuana. It just meant someone went on a talking jag. Logorrhea, as it were. Could have been about someone on meth, but it came out of the pot community. People got stoned and went off on verbal tangents, sometimes seemingly endlessly. It was kind of a joke, you know, when a guy looked around him and realized he’d been talking nonstop and had no idea what he’d been talking about. That was rapping. Or, you could be with someone else, or even a group, and having an earnest discussion. Pot wasn’t necessarily a component in this instance. That was rapping, too. I used to cringe when they called it a “rap session,” but that’s what we called them back then where I was, and I was in a lot of places. It was just silly talk or a serious discussion; either way, we rapped. And now it means something else, but that’s where it came from, and this is about how it got to here, so we’re going backwards.

     

    Let’s start with all the rap music that’s out in the world right now, and go back from there. Let’s include Kurtis Blow, Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, and Biggie and Tupac, and N.W.A. and Ice-T and Snoop Dogg and Eminem and Nicki Minaj and Kesha and everyone you know in that field, and there’s a lot of them. Let’s call all of them current artists, and yes, I know who’s dead. Let’s say that these are the folks you know, and for those of you that know more than I do about the recent history of rap, please excuse my glossing over most of the details to get to the first of it. Let’s go backwards to January, 1981. You’ll like this.

     

    The first mainstream rap hit song was “Rapture,” by Blondie. Rap song? Blondie? The New Wave hit machine? Well, it had a rap, no doubt, and up ‘til then, rap had always been tough black guys, mostly gangsta, you feel me? Well, Debbie Harry was as opposite all that as you could devise, but it was rap—okay, maybe rap-ish—but Blondie was a powerhouse group and the song did have rap. It was also the beginning of the Age of Video, and MTV played the bejeesus out of the song. It was November, 1980 when that song came out and became the first major pop hit with rap in it. It was dipping your toes in rap, but it was huge. What preceded it?

     

    Well, that would be “Rapper’s Delight,” by The Sugar Hill Gang, which came out in September, 1979, and went to #36 on the Billboard Hot 100, #4 on the Soul chart, #1 in Canada and Europe. It’s thought of as the first song to introduce rap (or hip-hop) to U.S. audiences, was a great big hit, and you know about sampling, right? This would be when sampling came into prominence, and from that development two phenomena emerged: today’s rap music, and a whole boatload of very wealthy lawyers. And you know who they sampled for this big hit?

     

    Well, that would be “Good Times,” by Chic, which came out in June of 1979, and went on to be sampled too many times to even estimate at this point (note: check out Who Sampled for a list of the 180 times this track has been sampled and many other delights - CC). But “Rapper’s Delight” was the first to almost go mainstream, and when it hit, Debbie brought legendary singer/songwriter/producer/ recent Rock ‘n’ Roll Hall of Fame inductee Nile Rodgers of Chic, to a club where he heard his beats and bass lines being used in some other guys’ song. He asked the DJ what record it was, the DJ told him he just bought it that day in Harlem, and it was an early version of “Rapper’s Delight,” whereupon they sued over the use of their record, and he and his bass player are now listed as co-writers. So, was “Rapper’s Delight” with all the “Good Times’” samples the first rap record to get serious airplay? No, that would be “King Tim III (Personality Jock),” by The Fatback Band, in March of 1979. And think about that title for an indication of how rare this was. It was happening fast, wasn’t it? Where’d this come from?  

     

    The funk dance outfit The Fatback Band was looking for something new, something energetic to put out. Knowing about the parties (remember- we’re going backwards here), they hired Tim Washington, an almost unknown MC who used to throw out raps at parties, and they recorded the song. They were a funk band, but they’d wanted something innovative, something to drive the song, so they went to a rapper because that was still all but unknown on any music charts, but there were dance parties in the Bronx and now elsewhere that were increasing in popularity, and rap was still exciting and daring. They thought the dance parties were not their dance crowd, so they put it out as the B-side. They thought those parties out there were for someone else,  but the song took off like a shot in clubs and parties, and they re-released it as the A-side. I’m guessing the folks over at Sugar Hill Records thought they were on to something as they prepared to release “Rapper’s Delight,” shortly thereafter, and they were right. So now we’re back in March of 1979, when “King Tim” came out. So where’d he come from? Glad I asked.

     

    What had been going on until “King Tim” was parties with MCs, starting in 1973, when Coke La Rock and DJ Kool Herc teamed up for a dance party in the Bronx to celebrate his sister’s birthday. La Rock improvised lines over the beats, mostly calling out to friends in the crowd and making up short stories to the beat, puffing up him and his friends. He did their first few parties from behind the speakers so no one knew who was rapping. For the sixth party, he started calling himself La Rock, and stepped out in front and got bolder, incorporating more poetry into his lines. His antics were getting closer to rap, but it was closer to a combination of performance art and showing off. The idea caught on and other parties started featuring MCs, and I’m using the term in a general way or we’ll be here all day.

     

    Their success made these two players influential as the other MCs started showing up at dance parties. Violence was always a part of the raps because they reflected the reality of life in the ghetto, but the lore must have included the night when DJ Kool Herc was stabbed at a party, and when La Rock went looking to settle the score, he found that friends of the perpetrator had sent the guy out of town. La Rock mostly retired from rapping after that, but his influence lived on with the current and then the next generation of rappers. Later rappers eschewed La Rock’s improvisations, writing out the lyrics out and rehearsing their rhymes with a crew, which allowed them to become more complex. These parties continued outside the notice of mainstream record labels and the songs appeared mostly on tape until The Fatback Band, and we’ve been there and done that, so what the hell could possibly have preceded Coke La Rock in 1973? I’ve got two names for you: Gil Scott-Heron and The Last Poets.

     

    Summer, 1971.  The “Sixties” are over, but racial tensions continue to erupt.

     

    Gi-Scott-HeronAnd this is where I came in. In the old days, the pre-Sixties, we only had AM radios and all we listened to was Top 40. When all that changed with the Underground Radio revolution, we all listened to our FM stations, and that was where this essay starts. The snippet of the song I heard that started me on this quest was in the opening music for the just-ended season of “Homeland,” on Showtime. I heard a phrase that I’d heard the first time in the song “The Revolution Will Not Be Televised,” by Gil Scott-Heron. It would only ever be played on FM in the summer of 1971; it was too hot for AM, and I don’t mean “hot” in the good way. Over the years, the phrase popped up now and then, and I know there isn’t an ex-hipster out there who forgot it, and when I heard it on that show, I wanted to know more about it.

     

    It was played on FM because it was daring, it was about “the revolution” that had evolved into the middle class when the hippies got married and had children; some were left some behind. AM wouldn’t touch it, and it didn’t ignite any flames that I know of, but I heard it, and so did those of us still listening. I wasn’t alarmed, but I did think that this was something new. Not just the message, but the medium. That was new, and I paid attention. It was in 1971, and it didn’t ignite any flames, but it was something different, and that’s what I heard. Different. It was jazzy and pop-ish, but it had a message, maybe a warning. In the early Sixties, Dylan wrote: “Yes, it is I who is knockin’ at your door if it is you inside who hears the noise,” and we heard him knocking when he sang,

     

    Oh the foes will rise with the sleep still in their eyes

    And they’ll jerk from their beds and think they’re dreamin’

    And they’ll pinch themselves and squeal and know that it’s for real

    The hour when the ship comes in

     

    The message was received, the Sixties had come and gone, and there’d been some changes made. But not enough for a lot of the black community, who were still restless, waiting for all the freedoms that were promised so recently. Black Olympians had raised their fists in the Black Power salute, James Brown said “I’m black and I’m proud,” but where were the changes? The influence of the Black Panthers had come and gone by 1971, when Gil Scott-Heron released “The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.” He was speaking for a group that was virtually unheard in pop culture, and we heard the warning. We’d heard it from Dylan, and he’d been chillingly right…

     

    I remember comparing the two in 1971. When I heard it recently, I asked myself if this wasn’t the origin of rap. It was certainly so in my mind, and then I saw that confirmed in my research, but I also found one more step backwards in the history of rap, and that would be to The Last Poets, a group founded in the wake of the late 1960’s Civil Rights Movement, and its Black Nationalist’s offshoot. Angry revolutionaries, they made no effort to couch their message in radio-ready language, and so it was months before Scott-Heron put out “The Revolution Will Not Be Televised” that they released The Last Poets, which, out of concern for my host’s inbox I will call: this song and the other song, neither of which you may play in sensitive situations.

     

    I never heard this group back then, and I can guess why. Maybe it was because of the language? I don’t know, maybe Station Managers or Program Directors or owners felt that playing Gil Scott-Heron was daring, but playing The Last Poets was a bridge too far. Even hippie stations had to sell ads and keep their licenses. Don’t know, don’t care; this is about the first rap music and I think this is it. Maybe you never heard of The Last Poets, either, but they were not unheard, and if you listen, you can hear their echoes today. Them and Gil Scott-Heron.

     

    Were they angry? Definitely. Got a point? You decide. What I decided was that this was as far back as I can trace rap. Yes, there may be evidence of rap as far back as the early 18th Century in Congo Square, but 1970 is as far as I go.

     

    Now rap is everywhere and has fragmented into styles and methods, as it should. It’s in clubs, on TV, on the web and stuck in people’s ears; if there are still boom boxes, then it’s there, too. It’s on the guy’s radio next to you at a red light, and at or near every 7-11 in at least in Southern California, and it’s in movies and TV soundtracks, and it’s in the news, and its biggest stars are the biggest stars, and it’s come a long way from The Last Poets and Gil Scott-Heron and Coke La Rock and The Fatback Band.

     

    You may now go back to the present day. And good day to you.  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    GilbertgGilbert Klein has enough degrees and not enough stories. He’s been a radio talk show host, a nightclub owner, event producer, and has written two books: FAT CHANCE about the legendary KFAT radio, and FOOTBALL 101. He threatens to write one more. He spent 25 years in New York, 25 years in San Francisco, and is now purportedly retired in Baja.




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    8 minutes ago, DRB100 said:

    I have to find credibility in the person before I look at what they've done to consider it art or having talent.  Musical talent?  NOPE.  They have to be a musician to prove that.   

    I do admit that when I listen to the 2 live crew, I laugh uncontrollably because I think it's more comedy than it is music.  It's so stupid, it's entertaining in some ways, but I don't think of it as any serious music or them being musical.  Heck, they couldn't even make everything rhyme or have proper rhymes cadence, which makes stupid.  But there are kids that buy into it.

     

     

    Interesting. I'm willing to bet you know not a single rapper personally, thus you can't find credibility in them. Public persona doesn't count because it's an act just like the Blues Brothers. 

     

    2 Live Crew is entertainment. Glad you find it entertaining. 

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    6 minutes ago, DRB100 said:

    When foul language is being used in a racist, sexist manner, yeah, I do have a problem with that. I don't find it enhancing the music aspect all that much.   I hear and say enough swear words on my own without needing it in music. Music to me is my sanctuary to get away from the crap and stresses of the world, not to bring them in. That's why I listen to music.  I don't want to hear how some gang banger would have sex with whores, kill people, etc. etc. because a lot of these rappers WERE gang bangers and they are telling their stupid story trying to make a quick buck.  Enough.  I'm tired of it.  You hear one, that's more than enough.   I don't want THEIR environment infiltrating mine.  It's called polluting my space so where's MY freedom NOT to listen to it?  It's infiltrating into TV show and movies as background music. It's hard to get away from that.  It's played in cars at obscenely loud volumes.  Hard to get away from that. I just don't like it and I don't like being subjected to it.  My freedom to NOT listen to is being violated all of the time.

     

     

    I don't want to hear Kenny Rogers talk about gang rape (three Gatlin boys had their way with Becky), but I still consider it music, I don't make judgements about the singers or songwriters, and I don't really care that other people like it. I don't consider those who like that Kenny Rogers gangbanging to be idiots either. 

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    10 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

     

    I don't want to hear Kenny Rogers talk about gang rape (three Gatlin boys had their way with Becky), but I still consider it music, I don't make judgements about the singers or songwriters, and I don't really care that other people like it. I don't consider those who like that Kenny Rogers gangbanging to be idiots either. 

    I don't really listen to Kenny Rogers and I'm unfamiliar with that song.

     

      Here's the thing.  There are basic essentials to call something music.  But it's a whole other concept to call it GREAT music or a GREAT performance.

     

    You are confusing music with the lyrics.  Lyrics are the words sung or spoken, music is the melody, harmony, rhythm, arrangement, and things like that. So, did you like the song, but not the lyrics?  That happens quite a bit. 

     

    There's lots of songs I've heard over the years where I wasn't a fan of the lyrics, but I liked the music or the singer's voice, but I didn't care for the lyrics.  

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    36 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

     

    I don't want to hear Kenny Rogers talk about gang rape (three Gatlin boys had their way with Becky), but I still consider it music, I don't make judgements about the singers or songwriters, and I don't really care that other people like it. I don't consider those who like that Kenny Rogers gangbanging to be idiots either. 

     

    I just read about that song. It appears to be a song about something not focused on gang banging and promoting that as proper behavior, but rather whether Becky's boyfriend would choose to run away from her because of what they did, OR rush to her aid and be by her side so she could get revenge.  Again, I have not heard the song, but I just did a read up on the song's premise, etc.  

     

    I find anyone that rapes another to be disgusting.  I even find men that gang bang a woman that WANTS to be gang banged to be disgusting.   Yes, there are cases where women have wanted to set a world's record for the number of men they had sex with in a 24 hour period.  Disgusting.  Not my thing.

     

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    1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

     

    Interesting. I'm willing to bet you know not a single rapper personally, thus you can't find credibility in them. Public persona doesn't count because it's an act just like the Blues Brothers. 

     

    2 Live Crew is entertainment. Glad you find it entertaining. 

    I haven't heard their entire catalog of 2 Live Crew, so I can only speak of what I've heard, but I don't classify it as great music. I classify it as more as vulgar comedy and a display of vulgar language than music. I just laughed because of how unbelievably stupid it was.   I was laughing at THEM more than anything and stupid the whole thing was and how stupid it was for the to conjure up stupid lyrics.  Heck, part of it didn't even rhyme or follow the proper rhythm.   Go listen to Doo Wah Diddy. 

     

    It sounds like they threw it together on the cheap and for some stupid reason, people bought it because it got a lot of media attention for vulgar language.  

     

    At least the Blues Brothers were trying to perform classic R&B songs with a certain amount of integrity but also put in a little humor for the movie/videos.   But at least they weren't trying to screw around with the lyrics and make fun of them.  It's a different thing.  At least everyone knew they were comedic actors first and they had a great back up band of famous musicians that were on some great R&B and blues albums.  Nothing wrong with what they did.

     

    When Rapper's Delight first came out, I liked the original song because it was a well played song by Chic, but it was a dance song, and all they did was remove the vocals and replace it with their lyrics and called it a rap song. but their lyrics were kind of silly, and I never focused on their lyrics and would never buy it, but the music portion, which was Chic is fine.  To me, they just screwed up a perfectly decent dance song.

     

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    2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    Are you really up in arms about swear words? 

     

    #FirstWorldProblems

     

    Not in music.  Did I not explain myself clearly enough?  Please re-read what I said. Dang. do you have selective reading where you completely ignore every other word?  Do you have a wife or girlfriend that complains that you don't listen to her?  If so, then maybe you should pay closer attention, if not, then maybe that's a reason.

     

     With Rap, it's not just the foul language.  But it's mostly what I hear when watching a TV show on HBO or some cable channel, or a movie or blasting from some a-holes car or boom box in a public place.

     

    They aren't singing because they can't, and the music they conjure up is either stolen (sampled from someone else's recordings) or some lame drum machine or sequenced crap that's annoying because they aren't musicians able to write and create great music.

     

     

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    19 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

    Thou whoeson lump of foul deformity, villain, I have done thy mother

    What point are you trying to make?

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    2 hours ago, DRB100 said:

     

    Do you mean Luminaries to rappers that put out foul language rap?  

     

    I'm sorry but if you can rewrite that I'll try to answer.

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    22 minutes ago, DRB100 said:

    What point are you trying to make?

     

    read the post just above it for the main point

     

    the secondary point is about sampling

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    2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    Are you really up in arms about swear words? 

     

    #FirstWorldProblems

     

    Go read about the psychology behind music.  There's recent studies on improvised jazz opening up parts of the brain.  Dr. Hawkins' research found that there are levels of consciousness or the "attitude" behind music and they rate some of them and it's interesting how rap rates as compared to jazz, classical and things like that.  he didn't rate things like Death Metal or Goth rock too high on the scale either.  He had a scale where O was essentially dead no brain activity  to 1000, which was fully conscious or fully enlightened.  It's interesting reading.  I pay close attention to how listening to a piece of music effects me and I'm quite sensitive to it because I pay attention to it. When you listen to a piece of music, do you want to feel angry, agitated?  Does what you listen to make you feel that way?  Some people have to get high or drunk before or while they are listening to music and that masks everything.

    If I become angry listening to something, then I change it and turn on something else that I get a positive reaction.  Rap is largely negative, many forms of Metal is also largely negative, so I stay away as much as I can.  Punk, same thing.  After reading his findings and comparing to how I react to the same music, I find I do feel the same way and I felt that way prior to reading his research findings.   I try to stay at a certain level because I don't want to have a negative experience listening to music, regardless of who it is.  I also can't stand listening John Cage's stuff either.  Even though he's a trained musician, I find his music annoying and I think he tapped into how certain melodies can create an agitating effect on the listener.  That's how powerful musical notes are or noises are whether or not the person creating them intended it  or was even aware of it previous to the creation.

     

    The other important aspect is the sub culture behind the music. Do I like the people that are associated with the music to want to socialize with them.  Do I want to hang out with gang bangers?  NOPE. Then I don't think listening to rap is a wise idea as that world attracts gang bangers.   Do I like what their sub culture stands for and is the sub culture positive for society?  I also look at things like that too.

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    To quote me favorite rock band, "it's nothing as it seems."

     

    Often, those that present a perfect image in public are the exact opposite. Conversely, those that act tough are often not. Ask Marshall Mathers' neighbors about how great of a neighbor Eminem really is. This is true. 

     

    The great Jazz improv guys were "all" on heroin. You better stop listening if you judge music by the personal lives of the musicians. 

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    1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

     

    I'm sorry but if you can rewrite that I'll try to answer.

    I'm just trying to figure out what your point is. why would you write it and what's your intention?

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    1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

    may I suggest that the people who created rap were angry before they created it?

    Well, yeah, I think that's a given with a lot of it.  NWA?  DEFINITELY.   Just even in the title of their group.  Niggaz With an Attitude.    Word to the wise, DON'T ever play F the Police in your car.  If the police catch you playing it or with that attitude, I don't think they are going to appreciate that and they might create a scenario where you'll try to give them attitude and that's going to not end up good for you.  I'm sure that song or the attitude in that song has led to a lot scenarios where the police shot at or beat the crap out of someone they were dealing with.  When I hear someone playing that loud in their car, that's essentially telling the cops that you are a willing participant to get your head bashed in.  Cops don't like that song OR the attitude that it incites.   Just a caution.  :-)

     

    Look at Jay Z's latest music, he's all pissed off at others and he's taking it out in his lyrics and he's trying to get media attention by pulling it from certain markets and then putting it back on because he gets a lot of media attention with it. And he's doing it to make a quick buck.  

     

    I haven't heard every rap song, but the most obvious one's.  

     

    Some of these rappers sound like they smoked a ton of weed and they sound like it.  Listen to the song they play with the show Ballers on HBO.  that guy sounds high as it gets. 

     

    Yeah, a lot of the gangsta rap stuff, definitely, they are pissed off at the other gangs, and they do a lot of trash talking, etc. etc. etc. so yeah, a lot of anger in it. 

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    1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    To quote me favorite rock band, "it's nothing as it seems."

     

    Often, those that present a perfect image in public are the exact opposite. Conversely, those that act tough are often not. Ask Marshall Mathers' neighbors about how great of a neighbor Eminem really is. This is true. 

     

    The great Jazz improv guys were "all" on heroin. You better stop listening if you judge music by the personal lives of the musicians. 

    well, I make up my own idea of M&M.. He comes off to me as an idiot that was always causing problems in the classroom.  Ask his neighbors?  Maybe his neighbors are bunch of idiots just like him.  

     

    No, not ALL of the jazz greats were on heroin during the entire careers. Many of them stopped and were only on it for a short period. So stop with our lies about their careers. You make it sound like they were shooting up during their entire career, which isn't true.   A lot musicians get hooked into drugs and alcohol because people want to party with musicians, musicians have crazy schedules so they have to be awake when they would rather be sleeping or they have to sleep when it's broad daylight and it's hard to get rest, so they resort to drugs and alcohol..  Yeah, it's a common tail.  But nowadays? What major jazz great shoots up heroin?  Herbie Hancock?  NO.  McCoy Tyner? NO.  Chick Corea?  NO.   McLaughlin?  NO.  Marsalis brothers? NO.  so give me a list of the current jazz greats shooting up heroin or doing massive amounts of drugs.  Please show me the list of current musicians that are into that stuff.  

     

    I listen to Mahavishnu and McLaughlin wasn't into heroin during that time period. He was as clean as it gets. Drugs and alcohol weren't a major part of that band or subsequent bands Mclaughlin was part of.  Some goes with some of the other players.  Look at Jeff Beck, he plays his ass off, but he's not into drugs like some might think, he might even be better than he ever was.

     

    Some of the jazz greats were into it for a relatively short period of time, but they didn't go around putting racist lyrics and hatred in lyrics of their songs.  They at least conducted themselves in a more professional manner where they weren't going half cocked with hate speech, racist speech, etc. 


    Stevie Ray Vaughn got off of drinking many years before he died and he's one of the best contemporary blues guitarists to come out in a long time.

     

    So a lot of them did kick the habit. And that should inspire others to kick the habit or not take up the habit in the first place.  They did drugs to experiment because back then, they were seeking enlightenment through drugs, which a lot musicians have done, but if they kick the habit and get into meditation and things like that, then they got rid of the habit.    

     

    look at Justin Bieber, that kid smokes pot, drinks alcohol,got busted reckless driving without a license,  vandalism, got caught throwing eggs at a neighbors house and what people does he socialize with and hang around? RAPPERS..  So, you can see that he threw away his perfect opportunity to go to college because he had a lot of money and he threw away that opportunity because sex drugs and rapping is a high priority. And he's still an idiot, but just a bigger one.

     

    So, again, stop spouting things that aren't necessarily true.  

     

    Elvin Jones wasn't on heroin his entire career. Coltrane wasn't on heroin during his entire career either.  He was during part of it, but he wasn't for the entire period, plus those jazz greats didn't put the N word in their lyrics because they had no lyrics.

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    2 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

     

    I'm sorry but if you can rewrite that I'll try to answer.

    That's what I'm asking what you meant by rappers being Luminaries.  It wasn't clear.  Are you trying to infer that that rappers are luminaries for OTHER rappers.to not use foul language vs Rappers that don't use foul language are Luminaries because they don't use foul language?

    Are there others that aren't rappers, but are Luminaries? 

     

     

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    8 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

    The  Luminaries are rappers (or hip-hop music makers) who don't seem to use foul language - not I particularly care for rap or their music all that much...

     

     

    name of a group

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    3 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

     

     

    name of a group

    Oh,  I've never heard of them.   

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    3 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

     

     

    name of a group

    But are any of them able to play a musical instrument at a proficient level?  Can any of them sing proficiently?  

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    Here's some research.  Here's a link to the top 50 Rap albums and some have the Parental Advisory label, which means foul language.  Go and count them up.  You'll see that more of these albums have the label than those that do not.

     

    http://www.complex.com/music/2013/05/the-50-best-selling-rap-albums/fugees-the-score

     

    That proves my point that foul language in Rap sells more than the non-foul language.

     

     

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    Hmm, the least informed person on a subject still won't let go of the mic and allow others to share their thoughts.

    Done here. @DRB100, you're the first person I'll be adding to my ignore list. Hate to do this, but you can't seem to stop digging yourself into the same hole which is bound to collapse on you.

    Word to the wise: step out of your sheltered universe and listen to people. Listening allows you to integrate new information, which is the foundation of learning new things. Being able to continue learning gives you perspective that makes you an interesting conversationalist, and opens up the world to more possibilities not imaginable from the sheltered, limited perspective you now hold.

    Good luck. It's a less threatening world out there once you take your blinders off, in fact, it's beautiful out here.

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    10 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

    may I suggest that the people who created rap were angry before they created it?

    Bingo. 

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    Let's put the angry rappers together with the folks at MQA so their fanbase can enjoy all the wonderful benefits. Then together with audiophiles they will then have all this intense "music" to listen to and revel in the glorious SQ. x-D

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    On 7/9/2017 at 3:29 PM, LarryMagoo said:

    Rap is still not music....

    Early rap looks like they are having fun ... there are different kinds of music: These are the first 2 released rap songs:

    One of the first released rap songs:

     

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    Has anyone else watched HBO's The Defiant Ones?

     

    I watched all four episodes last night and loved it. Sure, there are some alternative facts in the documentary, but it's a great story. In it, there are many details about why gangsta rap discussed the topics it did and how much of a poet Tupac Shakur was before his death at age 25. 

     

    http://www.hbo.com/the-defiant-ones

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