Recommendation for a simple to use upnp/dlna media server app

[dericchan1]

Hello, I am pretty new at this. I don't have too big of a digital library, maybe 1500-2000 albums in total, stored on an external ssd. I had tried as simple as installing minidlna/ReadyMedia (that does not provide too much library management), and jriver dlna media server (that seems to be pretty solid for library management), jellyfin..... They all seem to work pretty well. 

 

I wonder if there is anything else out there that offers a simple/better to setup / use solution?  I have seen others mentioned about minimserver and a couple others but wonder if that makes any differences to the sound quality...?

 

Thanks

 

Deric

[skikirkwood]

I have a bunch of Raspberry Pis in my house running the PiCorePlayer Linux distribution. It includes the Logitech Media Server and Squeezelite audio player. I have one of the Pis as a dedicated LMS server and also share the music library on it (2000+ ripped CDs) to my network as a Samba mount.

[jcbenten]

I have a Wiim Pro Plus on LMS and use iPeng (Apple products...not sure if they do Android yet) and it is the Bomb...It works and sound great.  I am still using the internal DAC of the WiiM...

[skikirkwood]

I also use the iOS iPeng app as a controller, along with the browser-based LMS interface using the Material UI skin plug-in. I added a touchscreen display to two of the Pis too. I used to use (and still have) a Logitech Squeezbox as a streamer. The LMS and its ecosystem were open-sourced before Logitech acquired the original company (Slimserver). So all of the software that ran on the Squeezebox (both server and UI/player) now run on all kinds of devices, including piCorePlayer.

[skikirkwood]

Another popular "audiophile" Linux distribution is Volumio. I rewrote the Spotify plugin for Volumio several years ago. I found piCorePlayer to be more stable than Volumio. But if you're not familiar with the Logitech Media Server, Volumio might have a shorter learning curve to install/use.

[Cebolla]

The OP is already familiar with Volumio's UPnP/DLNA media server as it's miniDLNA (via plugin).

https://community.volumio.com/t/plugin-minidlna/45994

 

 

Also, although the Logitech Media Server is highly regarded when operating natively in its primary function as a media server for Squeezebox type streamers, LMS is unfortunately rather buggy when used via Andy Gundman's ancient long unsupported UPnP/DLNA Media Interface plugin which provides its ancillary UPnP/DLNA media server function. For example, see:

https://forums.slimdevices.com/forum/user-forums/logitech-media-server/1626974-lms-as-upnp-dlna-server

[Cebolla]

On 3/5/2024 at 2:45 PM, dericchan1 said:

Hello, I am pretty new at this. I don't have too big of a digital library, maybe 1500-2000 albums in total, stored on an external ssd. I had tried as simple as installing minidlna/ReadyMedia (that does not provide too much library management), and jriver dlna media server (that seems to be pretty solid for library management), jellyfin..... They all seem to work pretty well. 

 

I wonder if there is anything else out there that offers a simple/better to setup / use solution?

 

What hardware do you intend to run the UPnP/DLNA media server on?

What UPnP streamer(s) are you intending to use the UPnP/DLNA media server with?

Are you restricting yourself to using a particular user interface for control (presumably via a UPnP/DLNA controller app) and on what hardware?

[Cebolla]

On 3/5/2024 at 2:45 PM, dericchan1 said:

I have seen others mentioned about minimserver and a couple others but wonder if that makes any differences to the sound quality...?

 

 

It's about reliability and features, rather than anything to do with sound quality. As long as a UPnP/DLNA media server is behaving correctly all it should be doing is providing the audio files over the network to the streamer untouched and therefore have absolutely no influence on sound quality - unless your requirement is to alter the files in some way by engaging the UPnP/DLNA media server's transcoder if it has one. 

[dericchan1]

1 hour ago, Cebolla said:

 

What hardware do you intend to run the UPnP/DLNA media server on?

What UPnP streamer(s) are you intending to use the UPnP/DLNA media server with?

Are you restricting yourself to using a particular user interface for control (presumably via a UPnP/DLNA controller app) and on what hardware?

Thanks for your response. To me the idea is to create a "UPNP hub" in the network as follows:

 

A UPNP renderer/media server connected to a SSD (digital library) that takes instructions from jplay iOS upnp control point and stream to my main Hqplayer desktop PC for upsampling, DSP, convolution, out to any of my NAA (network end points) in 4 different systems in my house.

 

The "hub" can comprise of 

- 1) Device A - Either a raspberry pi 4 or 5 or a mini PC, connected to a SSD and install UPNP/DLNA renderer/media server.

- 2) Probably not relevant to the topic of this thread - Connect Device A usb to Device B (that must be a raspberry pi 4 running Hqplayer input NAA OS) 

The flow is that A) Jplay iOS upnp Qobuz or digital library to Device A - UPNP renderer; B) UPNP renderer transfer bitperfect to Device B,  which takes the sample rate information and tracks and sends through LAN to my Hqplayer desktop PC.

 

Here is currently what I have set up and working - Raspberry pi 4 with jriver as a upnp renderer/media server connected to another Raspberry pi 4 (input NAA). It’s working pretty well actually.

 

That works great but jriver is a bit overkill in this application and it cost $70USD. For UPNP media server, minimserver even the free edition seems to work fine or there are other UPNP media server that works well. My only question is what would be a lightweight, easy to set up, inexpensive UPNP renderer out there that can transfer bitperfect to the second Raspberry pi 4...

 

Thanks

[dericchan1]

Update: thanks to @Jud’s recommendation, I have now setup my upnp hub with upmpdcli as the upnp renderer and minimserver for the media server!!!

 

thanks everyone 

 

Deric

[Cebolla]

21 hours ago, dericchan1 said:

A UPNP renderer/media server connected to a SSD (digital library) that takes instructions from jplay iOS upnp control point

 

Ok, so you have restricted yourself to using a particular UPnP/DLNA controller app in JPlay for iOS/iPadOS - so preumably you won't be interested in using LMS natively, anyway (LMS also provides the control interface for its native streamers).

Incidentally, the JPlay iDevice app isn't just a mere 'UPnP control point' given the main feature of it running its own full blown music management & cataloguing database - a task that most (if not all) other UPnP control point running apps expect the UPnP/DLNA media server application to do instead!

 

 

 

21 hours ago, dericchan1 said:

and stream to my main Hqplayer desktop PC for upsampling, DSP, convolution, out to any of my NAA (network end points) in 4 different systems in my house.

 

The "hub" can comprise of 

- 1) Device A - Either a raspberry pi 4 or 5 or a mini PC, connected to a SSD and install UPNP/DLNA renderer/media server.

- 2) Probably not relevant to the topic of this thread - Connect Device A usb to Device B (that must be a raspberry pi 4 running Hqplayer input NAA OS)

 

Wow - that's some complex, part network/part USB audio connected, multi-device "hub" just to get an audio signal into HQPlayer Desktop!

 

Is it not possible to run a UPnP renderer in the same PC running HQPlayer Desktop and 'simply' capture the UPnP renderer's audio output internally for HQPlayer Desktop, so no need for the input NAA RPi & USB audio connection?

Or, if that is not possible, perhaps run a UPnP renderer in Device B instead of Device A, with its output internally captured for the input NAA & no need for the USB audio connection?   

 

Also, did you at least explore the alternative of 'just' replacing HQPlayer Desktop with HQPlayer Embedded, so that you can then simply use HQPe's own built-in UPnP renderer for the ideal situation of HQPlayer actually receiving the original audio file tracks, to itself decode & play (never mind no need for external UPnP renderer, USB audio connection & NAA input RPi)?

 

 

 

21 hours ago, dericchan1 said:

The flow is that A) Jplay iOS upnp Qobuz or digital library to Device A - UPNP renderer; B) UPNP renderer transfer bitperfect to Device B,  which takes the sample rate information and tracks and sends through LAN to my Hqplayer desktop PC.

 

To be clear, the only 'flow' from the JPlay app to Device A UPnP renderer should be UPnP control commands or UPnP info requests. So the actual music file track data flow should be from Qobuz's online server or the UPnP media server directly to Device A UPnP renderer - unless the JPlay iOS app is (unusually for a UPnP controller) for its own reasons acting as the go between & therefore itself running an http server to proxy the music file tracks (do you know if this is the case?).

 

Plus, it's not the actual (audio file) tracks that are being transferred between the UPnP renderer and device B (via USB audio), but the UPnP renderer's continuous audio signal output, produced by the UPnP renderer itself decoding & playing the audio files, that is being transfered and then being sent through the LAN by the input NAA in Device B to HQPlayer Desktop. So a fair amount to consider in order to be confident in that process being bit perfect 🙂.

[Cebolla]

9 minutes ago, dericchan1 said:

Update: thanks to @Jud’s recommendation, I have now setup my upnp hub with upmpdcli as the upnp renderer and minimserver for the media server!!!

 

thanks everyone 

 

Deric

 

Oops,  looks like I just missed this while writing my previous post - glad you've sorted it out!

[dericchan1]

5 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

 

Ok, so you have restricted yourself to using a particular UPnP/DLNA controller app in JPlay for iOS/iPadOS - so preumably you won't be interested in using LMS natively, anyway (LMS also provides the control interface for its native streamers).

Incidentally, the JPlay iDevice app isn't just a mere 'UPnP control point' given the main feature of it running its own full blown music management & cataloguing database - a task that most (if not all) other UPnP control point running apps expect the UPnP/DLNA media server application to do instead!

 

 

 

 

Wow - that's some complex, part network/part USB audio connected, multi-device "hub" just to get an audio signal into HQPlayer Desktop!

 

Is it not possible to run a UPnP renderer in the same PC running HQPlayer Desktop and 'simply' capture the UPnP renderer's audio output internally for HQPlayer Desktop, so no need for the input NAA RPi & USB audio connection?

Or, if that is not possible, perhaps run a UPnP renderer in Device B instead of Device A, with its output internally captured for the input NAA & no need for the USB audio connection?   

 

Also, did you at least explore the alternative of 'just' replacing HQPlayer Desktop with HQPlayer Embedded, so that you can then simply use HQPe's own built-in UPnP renderer for the ideal situation of HQPlayer actually receiving the original audio file tracks, to itself decode & play (never mind no need for external UPnP renderer, USB audio connection & NAA input RPi)?

 

 

 

 

To be clear, the only 'flow' from the JPlay app to Device A UPnP renderer should be UPnP control commands or UPnP info requests. So the actual music file track data flow should be from Qobuz's online server or the UPnP media server directly to Device A UPnP renderer - unless the JPlay iOS app is (unusually for a UPnP controller) for its own reasons acting as the go between & therefore itself running an http server to proxy the music file tracks (do you know if this is the case?).

 

Plus, it's not the actual (audio file) tracks that are being transferred between the UPnP renderer and device B (via USB audio), but the UPnP renderer's continuous audio signal output, produced by the UPnP renderer itself decoding & playing the audio files, that is being transfered and then being sent through the LAN by the input NAA in Device B to HQPlayer Desktop. So a fair amount to consider in order to be confident in that process being bit perfect.

Thanks for your advice and all valid points to consider indeed. Obviously the simplest way would be to get an embedded license, but 1) it seems like a waste of the desktop license I already have by switching over to embedded, 2) it was meant to be a fun project of building a "UPNP hub" when I learnt that the new NAA feature allows simultaneously handling input and output. I have a bunch of RPI4s laying around, enough for me to experiment it. 

 

Complex - indeed

Fun - lots when I managed to achieve what I wanted to do at the end

 

So apparently Upmpdcli comprise of two "components" - Upmpdcli as the upnp front end and MPD as the renderer, in order to ensure bitperfect transfer to NAA input, I make sure in MPD config - ALSA settings to "hardware NOT plughw", "no auto resample", "no mixer".

 

Hqplayer shows the correct sample rate matches jplay iOS so it should be bitperfect.

 

jplay iOS is great providing "centralized" control of my qobuz streaming, library management of qobuz as well as my digital library, so far its working very solid.

 

Deric

[dericchan1]

"

39 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

 

To be clear, the only 'flow' from the JPlay app to Device A UPnP renderer should be UPnP control commands or UPnP info requests. So the actual music file track data flow should be from Qobuz's online server or the UPnP media server directly to Device A UPnP renderer - unless the JPlay iOS app is (unusually for a UPnP controller) for its own reasons acting as the go between & therefore itself running an http server to proxy the music file tracks (do you know if this is the case?).

 

Plus, it's not the actual (audio file) tracks that are being transferred between the UPnP renderer and device B (via USB audio), but the UPnP renderer's continuous audio signal output, produced by the UPnP renderer itself decoding & playing the audio files, that is being transfered and then being sent through the LAN by the input NAA in Device B to HQPlayer Desktop. So a fair amount to consider in order to be confident in that process being bit perfect 🙂.

That is correct. Jplay app only send commands and info requests from Qobuz to Device A Upnp renderer.