BubbleUPnP > HQPlayer OS repeats the beginning of tracks

[ohshitgorillas]

6 hours ago, Miska said:

 

OK, yesterday I was playing Tidal for 3 hours using mConnect Player (on my iPhone) to Embedded running on Ubuntu Server 22.04 LTS on i5-7600T machine. Upsampling to DSD256 using poly-sinc-gauss-long/poly-sinc-gauss-hires-lp and ASDM7EC-light. Not a single issue during those 3 hours.

 

 

Any wireless network involved? Any managed switches on the path? One potential issue is if 802.3x Flow Control doesn't become active. For example about half of managed switches default to 802.3x disabled. Without functional 802.3x, low power devices like Pi4 cannot keep up with full gigabit speed, and instead the hardware packet buffer overflows, leading to packet loss, which leads to resends of the data, which leads to more overflows and packet loss. Thus to occasional network stalls.

 

 

Oh yes, NAA can be used by only one server at a time, since it is exclusive access.

 

 

And Tidal is still mostly infested with lossy MQA "not-really-hires" content...

 

 

To HQPlayer Embedded yes, through UPnP, for example using mConnect Player. To Desktop, Client is the only option. But overall you get better feature set and usability if you play the content natively using Client.

 

mConnect Player is portrait display version for phones. And mConnect Player HD is landscape display version for tablets.

 

 

I'm running Client on an Intel-based Microsoft Surface tablet with Windows 11. That tablet is dedicated for this purpose. Otherwise using Windows 11 on a tablet is pretty horrid experience.

 

 

AFAIK, no...

 

 

I finally got sick of resetting hqplayerd every 30 minutes and bought my license last night.

 

Re: Tidal and Qobuz, I will give mConnect a try. Can I request a "search" feature for Qobuz in the desktop client? I was giving some friends of mine turns on my headphones last night and to load up a song on Qobuz I had to search on the website, add it to my favorites, then reload the favorites in the client... mConnect probably would have been easier if I'd known, but it would still be a nice feature for the Client.

 

Since the Client is optimized for touch-screen interfaces, is there any chance of seeing it available on tablets?

 

No wireless networks involved here... there is a "smart" switch although I don't see any 802.3x Flow Control features available on the web interface.

 

I have a couple of outstanding issues I'd like to address:

• when I load NAA 460 or NAA 460 ramfs onto my Pi4, it doesn't boot up. I have to use RoPieee as an endpoint. How can I get NAA, preferably ramfs, working on the Pi4? What is the minimum RAM required for ramfs?
• oftentimes after refreshing the network devices, the configuration interface of hqpalyerd fails to apply any changes when I click "apply". it merely reloads the page. I have to click away from and back to the configuration page to get new configs to load.
• I'm still getting dropouts using HQPlayer Client to stream Qobuz to the RoPieee device behind the smart switch.

 

I'll try to replace the smart switch with a dumb one and see if that helps.

[Miska]

6 hours ago, ohshitgorillas said:

Can I request a "search" feature for Qobuz in the desktop client?

 

It is already there? In various forms. You can give a generic search string, or search for example for specific artist, album or song.

 

Please see the PDF manual for details...

 

6 hours ago, ohshitgorillas said:

Since the Client is optimized for touch-screen interfaces, is there any chance of seeing it available on tablets?

 

Yes, so far works fine on Intel based Microsoft Surface tablets running Windows 11.

 

6 hours ago, ohshitgorillas said:

No wireless networks involved here... there is a "smart" switch although I don't see any 802.3x Flow Control features available on the web interface.

 

Except with BubbleUPnP since it seems to have proxying always enabled, so all Tidal content seems to go through the mobile phone / tablet running BubbleUPnP app. Unlike with mConnect Player...

 

I was trying to use BubbleUPnP today on my Android phone to test Tidal, but it ended up in a loop crashing Android system GUI and I had to reboot my phone to get it back to usable state...

 

See the change log entry regarding Tidal proxy:

 

That Android 12 related fix crashing System UI doesn't work on my phone, still in a crash loop. So at the moment I cannot test BubbleUPnP at all.

 

6 hours ago, ohshitgorillas said:

I have a couple of outstanding issues I'd like to address:

• when I load NAA 460 or NAA 460 ramfs onto my Pi4, it doesn't boot up. I have to use RoPieee as an endpoint. How can I get NAA, preferably ramfs, working on the Pi4? What is the minimum RAM required for ramfs?
• oftentimes after refreshing the network devices, the configuration interface of hqpalyerd fails to apply any changes when I click "apply". it merely reloads the page. I have to click away from and back to the configuration page to get new configs to load.
• I'm still getting dropouts using HQPlayer Client to stream Qobuz to the RoPieee device behind the smart switch.

 

There is no ramfs image for Pi4. Only regular one. There is ramfs image only for x64. Are you sure you are using a correct image?

 

Does your smart switch have 802.3x enabled? Essentially you should have 802.1p, 802.3x and 802.3az supported.

 

802.3x is typically called either "flow control" or "pause frames". Some smart switches have it enabled/disabled globally and some have it as per-port configuration. When it is per port configuration, all participating ports need to have it enabled.

 

[ohshitgorillas]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

Yes, so far works fine on Intel based Microsoft Surface tablets running Windows 11.

 

Sorry, I meant Android/iOS tablets.

 

2 hours ago, Miska said:

There is no ramfs image for Pi4. Only regular one. There is ramfs image only for x64. Are you sure you are using a correct image?

 

I am using naa-460-x64.

 

2 hours ago, Miska said:

Does your smart switch have 802.3x enabled? Essentially you should have 802.1p, 802.3x and 802.3az supported.

 

802.3x is typically called either "flow control" or "pause frames". Some smart switches have it enabled/disabled globally and some have it as per-port configuration. When it is per port configuration, all participating ports need to have it enabled.

 

It was previously running in QoS mode: DSCP/802.1P Based. I am now trying 802.1p Based. I don't see any settings related to 802.3x or 802.3az.

 

I also wanted to ask about this that I came across in the manual:

 

Quote

When DAC is connected to a unidirectional interface like S/PDIF, AES/EBU or I2S it is
important to select correct number of bits from the “DAC bits” selection. In addition,
when a DAC is connected to USB and has something else than 32-bit input resolution,
it is recommend to set the actual value here.
For Holo Audio and Denafrips R2R DACs, setting Bits to 20 is recommended.

 

So, for example, I run a Gustard R26 R2R DAC in NOS mode over AES. Does that mean I should be setting the bits to 20? And for my Schiit Bifrost 2/64 connected via USB and running in NOS mode, should it be 24 or 16? If I connected the Bifrost via S/PDIF, would I then set the bits to 16?

[Miska]

8 hours ago, ohshitgorillas said:

I am using naa-460-x64.

 

That is for x64 hardware, meaning PC hardware. It won't work on RPi4. You need to download the RPi4 image.

 

8 hours ago, ohshitgorillas said:

It was previously running in QoS mode: DSCP/802.1P Based. I am now trying 802.1p Based. I don't see any settings related to 802.3x or 802.3az.

 

DSCP/802.1p is best choice, both work though.

 

Did you already try Tidal through mConnect Player? Does it change anything?

 

8 hours ago, ohshitgorillas said:

So, for example, I run a Gustard R26 R2R DAC in NOS mode over AES. Does that mean I should be setting the bits to 20? And for my Schiit Bifrost 2/64 connected via USB and running in NOS mode, should it be 24 or 16? If I connected the Bifrost via S/PDIF, would I then set the bits to 16?

 

Yes, I would get started with DAC bits set to 20 for the Gustard. Or maybe 18. You can try if you notice any difference between the two.

 

DAC chips in Bifrost 2/64 are 16-bit parts, so you should always set DAC Bits to 16 for that one!

 

[ohshitgorillas]

5 hours ago, Miska said:

 

That is for x64 hardware, meaning PC hardware. It won't work on RPi4. You need to download the RPi4 image.

 

 

The only Pi4 image is labeled Holo Red, which I don't have. Is that still the correct image? I'm not seeing any others on the download page.

 

5 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Did you already try Tidal through mConnect Player? Does it change anything?

 

 

I'm trying it now, I'll report back.

 

5 hours ago, Miska said:

Yes, I would get started with DAC bits set to 20 for the Gustard. Or maybe 18. You can try if you notice any difference between the two.

 

DAC chips in Bifrost 2/64 are 16-bit parts, so you should always set DAC Bits to 16 for that one!

 

 

Thank you, I understand now.

 

According to Head-fi, the correct setting for the Gustard R26 is actually 15.

[stefano_mbp]

6 minutes ago, ohshitgorillas said:

Pi4 image is labeled Holo Red, which I don't have. Is that still the correct image?

Yes, it is

[ohshitgorillas]

7 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

Yes, it is

 

Thanks, do I need to do anything to make sure that the Pi2AES 2.0 is set as the correct output device?

[stefano_mbp]

2 minutes ago, ohshitgorillas said:

 

Thanks, do I need to do anything to make sure that the Pi2AES 2.0 is set as the correct output device?

Nothing to do, once installed you’ll be able to select the preferred output device from HQPlayer (embedded or desktop) in the network audio section

[bogi]

16 hours ago, ohshitgorillas said:

Sorry, I meant Android/iOS tablets.

I don't use it but I remember few people mentioned using VNC type of solution. Run HQPlayer Client on any supported OS, install VNC server on that computer and use VNC client on Anfroid or iOS tablet.

[Miska]

3 hours ago, ohshitgorillas said:

The only Pi4 image is labeled Holo Red

 

Yeah, it is for Pi4 and Holo Red (which is based on Pi4 CM).

 

[ohshitgorillas]

6 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Yeah, it is for Pi4 and Holo Red (which is based on Pi4 CM).

 

 

Thanks, got it. It boots up, and I can ping the device, but it never shows up on the list of NAA devices...

[ohshitgorillas]

I've tried mConnectHD and it worked really well last night, but recently it's started repeating the first track regardless of the repeat mode setting. This happens with both Qobuz and Plex. I've tried restarting the app and restarting my tablet. Google hasn't turned up anything useful.

 

I'll report back if I get any drop-outs.

[ohshitgorillas]

mConnect is no longer repeating tracks, which is good. That was weird, though it seems to work well now.

 

I've experienced some heavy drop-outs/stuttering streaming music from local files via HQP Client, which was resolved by switching to a different album (with the same bit depth/sampling rate). I don't think it was a processing power related issue, since right now I'm running DSD512 with poly-sinc-gauss-xla and ASDM7EC-super 512+fs and everything is smooth. It's giving my GPU a workout, but there's still power to spare. This was a weird one that seems more like an outlier than something reproducible, but I'll document exactly what happens next time.

 

From time to time, I get a drop-out near the end of a track, seconds before switching to the next track.

 

I am still unable to get the NAA image working on my RPi4. I can ping the device but it never shows up on the list of NAA endpoints.

 

Lastly, last night I tried to use sinc-L in combination with ASDM7EC-super 512+fs but hqplayer refused to play any music. Switching to sinc-M fixed this and the music started again.

[Miska]

53 minutes ago, ohshitgorillas said:

I've experienced some heavy drop-outs/stuttering streaming music from local files via HQP Client, which was resolved by switching to a different album (with the same bit depth/sampling rate).

 

Likely related to source media not delivering the data fast enough.

 

53 minutes ago, ohshitgorillas said:

I am still unable to get the NAA image working on my RPi4. I can ping the device but it never shows up on the list of NAA endpoints.

 

Is there some discoverable audio device behind it?

 

53 minutes ago, ohshitgorillas said:

Lastly, last night I tried to use sinc-L in combination with ASDM7EC-super 512+fs but hqplayer refused to play any music. Switching to sinc-M fixed this and the music started again.

 

Nvidia GPU in use? On Windows or some other platform?

 

[Apollo]

On 1/6/2024 at 12:53 PM, Miska said:

I'm running Client on an Intel-based Microsoft Surface tablet with Windows 11. That tablet is dedicated for this purpose. Otherwise using Windows 11 on a tablet is pretty horrid experience.

I am considering buying a 2ndhand MS Surface just as a remote for Audio - supporting HQPlayer client, Roon Client, Audirvana client.

 

Regarding HQPlayer specifically, can that be operated via the touchscreen (without or with stylus), or do you allways need to use the keyboard?

[Miska]

48 minutes ago, Apollo said:

Regarding HQPlayer specifically, can that be operated via the touchscreen (without or with stylus), or do you allways need to use the keyboard?

 

Yes it works purely through touch. The GUI has been designed for touch use, so you can swipe around, etc. That's why I also use things like long taps / long clicks instead of right mouse button, etc.

 

[ohshitgorillas]

3 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Likely related to source media not delivering the data fast enough.

 

 

The source media is stored on a local NVMe drive, on the same machine as HQPlayer, so the data not arriving fast enough seems unlikely.

 

I am actually getting regular dropouts now trying to stream 24/192 source material from the local drive into HQPlayer. I am using sinc-M and ASDM7EC-super 512+fs to DSD 48x512. This worked flawlessly with redbook material. My GPU is only running at 45% and the CPU is at 16% to do this so there's plenty of power left.

 

3 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Is there some discoverable audio device behind it?

 

 

Yes, Pi2AES.

 

3 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Nvidia GPU in use? On Windows or some other platform?

 

 

Ubuntu Server, Intel i5-10600KF, Nvidia GTX1660 Ti. Yes, the GPU is in use.

[bogi]

6 hours ago, ohshitgorillas said:

I am actually getting regular dropouts now trying to stream 24/192 source material from the local drive into HQPlayer. I am using sinc-M and ASDM7EC-super 512+fs to DSD 48x512. This worked flawlessly with redbook material. My GPU is only running at 45% and the CPU is at 16% to do this so there's plenty of power left.

10 hours ago, ohshitgorillas said:

last night I tried to use sinc-L in combination with ASDM7EC-super 512+fs but hqplayer refused to play any music

 

On 12/22/2023 at 9:45 PM, ohshitgorillas said:

I am running HQPlayer OS on a Raspberry Pi4 with a Pi2AES hat. I am not running HQPlayer Embedded on the media server, as I'd prefer my HQPlayer to be at least somewhat portable.

 

Does it mean you are attempting the above filter / modulator combinations at DSD512 on Pi4?? If so, you are asking way too much from your Pi4 as HQPlayer computer. Or do you run it on some other computer? I did not find any other specs in this thread. Consider to add your computer basic specs and DAC model into your signature. It would help others to address your issues. You cannot expect that everybody will search your specs in multiple pages long thread...

 

Do you have [x] 48k DSD and [x] Auto rate family in HQPlayer Embedded checked? That helps to play 48k rates on DACs which support 48k DSD like your Holo.

 

You need to experiment self what for filters/modulators are running at which DSD rates on your setup.

Try lighter modulators than ASDM7EC-super 512+fs or lower output DSD rate, if the higher one does not work.

If you like sinc-M at lower DSD rates, you can give a try for example to sinc-medium or poly-sinc-long-lp-2s on higher rates.
sinc-L may not work for you even at DSD256. Try sinc-LI or sinc-Lm instead.

[ohshitgorillas]

The specs are directly above your post. The PC has plenty of power.

 

Yes, auto rate family and 48kHz DSD are checked. The Gustard R26 supports 48kHz DSD rates.

 

I'm just confused because the PC is far from maxing out, I can run poly-sinc-gauss-xla to DSD512 using the ASDM7super 512+fs shaper perfectly smoothly. Some material stutters with lower power filters. And sinc-L refuses to play with that modulator, period.

[Miska]

7 hours ago, ohshitgorillas said:

The source media is stored on a local NVMe drive, on the same machine as HQPlayer, so the data not arriving fast enough seems unlikely.

 

CPU or some other component like NVMe thermal throttling?

 

7 hours ago, ohshitgorillas said:

I am actually getting regular dropouts now trying to stream 24/192 source material from the local drive into HQPlayer. I am using sinc-M and ASDM7EC-super 512+fs to DSD 48x512. This worked flawlessly with redbook material. My GPU is only running at 45% and the CPU is at 16% to do this so there's plenty of power left.

 

Please note that when you run into dropouts the load figures become meaningless. But 48k family is a bit heavier than 44.1k family.

 

For CPU load what matters are the per-core loads, not the total load figure, so please use for example "htop" to see load levels of the highest loaded cores.

 

7 hours ago, ohshitgorillas said:

Ubuntu Server, Intel i5-10600KF, Nvidia GTX1660 Ti. Yes, the GPU is in use.

 

AVX2 build or the generic build? Multicore DSP set to auto or fully enabled?

 

[bogi]

44 minutes ago, ohshitgorillas said:

I'm just confused because the PC is far from maxing out, I can run poly-sinc-gauss-xla to DSD512 using the ASDM7super 512+fs shaper perfectly smoothly. Some material stutters with lower power filters. And sinc-L refuses to play with that modulator, period.

 

Having low CPU utilization does not indicate that CPU+GPU will finish processing a sample within 1/fs seconds. Processor clock frequency is more important for real time apps than utilization. CPU utilization says that your CPU would be able handle other tasks too but it does not tell how fast their processing would be. For real time apps you need speed and that is given by CPU clock.

 

Although your computer may be enough powerful to run a wide set of filters at DSD512, it most probably cannot handle sinc-L, sinc-long, poly-sinc-hb-l and long non-2s filters which are the most demanding filters of all. Try lighter ones.

[ohshitgorillas]

9 hours ago, Miska said:

 

CPU or some other component like NVMe thermal throttling?

 

 

Unlikely, the NVMe drives aren't heavily accessed, the drive storing the OS and the drive storing the music are different. The CPU has a large Noctua heatsink with dual fans.

 

This only happens with hi res material, not with redbook stuff. I'd assumed that hi res material was actually easier to process, given that there are more original samples so hqplayer has less interpolation to do. Am I wrong?

 

9 hours ago, Miska said:

 

AVX2 build or the generic build? Multicore DSP set to auto or fully enabled?

 

 

AVX2 build. Not sure about the Multicore DSP setting, as I can't find it in the HQPlayer Embedded web interface.

 

On that note, where is the HQPlayer Embedded manual located? The website says it's included with the install but I haven't been able to find it. I've been using the HQPlayer Desktop manual so far.

 

9 hours ago, bogi said:

 

Having low CPU utilization does not indicate that CPU+GPU will finish processing a sample within 1/fs seconds. Processor clock frequency is more important for real time apps than utilization. CPU utilization says that your CPU would be able handle other tasks too but it does not tell how fast their processing would be. For real time apps you need speed and that is given by CPU clock.

 

Although your computer may be enough powerful to run a wide set of filters at DSD512, it most probably cannot handle sinc-L, sinc-long, poly-sinc-hb-l and long non-2s filters which are the most demanding filters of all. Try lighter ones.

 

I didn't realize that sinc-L was one of the most demanding filters. Upon further inspection, sinc-L appears to not play at all with any modulator that I select at DSD512.

 

To be honest, I'm less concerned about DSD performance since, while my DAC can technically do DSD, it's the PCM R-2R ladder where it really shines and I have more than enough processing power to run any PCM conversion. If my media server falls short of being able to do DSD512 on the most demanding filters, that's okay with me. That being said, I do wonder if it's worthwhile looking into reinstalling Ubuntu Server with the low latency kernel?

 

I am more concerned with getting NAA working on my RPi4/Pi2AES. Again, I can ping the device on the network, but it never shows up on the list of NAA endpoints.

[bubbleguuum]

On 1/7/2024 at 1:56 AM, Miska said:

 

 

Except with BubbleUPnP since it seems to have proxying always enabled, so all Tidal content seems to go through the mobile phone / tablet running BubbleUPnP app. Unlike with mConnect Player...

 

I was trying to use BubbleUPnP today on my Android phone to test Tidal, but it ended up in a loop crashing Android system GUI and I had to reboot my phone to get it back to usable state...

 

 

That Android 12 related fix crashing System UI doesn't work on my phone, still in a crash loop. So at the moment I cannot test BubbleUPnP at all.

 

 

 

@Miska

 

Tidal proxying:  in v4.3.2 it is always enabled as mentioned in the changelog. Next app update will make it configurable again (ability to disable it) although it will still be enabled by default, as too many renderers have issues streaming directly from TIDAL: whether TLS issues (most TIDAL streams are https), not buffering at a proper pace (resulting in drop outs or TIDAL server closing the connection unilaterally), not supporting http redirects... Reliable TIDAL streaming (especially HiRes) can be really tricky with a tad more possible issues that regular LAN FLAC streaming. Proxying helps in most cases and it does not alter audio quality (renderer receives the exact same FLAC).

 

System UI issue: start BubbleUPnP, go into 'More > Settings > Control' and disable 'Android 11+ notification'.

Although this should be normally disabled by default on Moto devices running Android 12, since v4.3.2.

If you cannot even get there try again after clearing app data in Android Settings > Apps > BubbleUPnP > Storage.

This issue is actually a bug introduced by some

System UI change on these devices (Moto, Android 12) done by the manufacturer that broke the default Android 11+ media notification (at leas in how BubbleUPnP use it). No other devices have this issue.

 

Also, to improve reliable streaming with BubbleUPnP when screen is off it is very recommended to do these:

 

- apply these instructions for your Android device: https://dontkillmyapp.com/

- apply instructions in BubbleUPnP in More > Settings > Disable system battery optimization

[bogi]

1 hour ago, ohshitgorillas said:

To be honest, I'm less concerned about DSD performance since, while my DAC can technically do DSD, it's the PCM R-2R ladder where it really shines and I have more than enough processing power to run any PCM conversion. If my media server falls short of being able to do DSD512 on the most demanding filters, that's okay with me. That being said, I do wonder if it's worthwhile looking into reinstalling Ubuntu Server with the low latency kernel?

There is no such equation that the most demanding filters need to be the best sounding. While long filters generally emphasize space and timbre, what's generally welcome with classical music, they smear transients on music content with fast attacks and decays. I personally don't see reason in hunting to be able to play those most demanding long ones. I mostly prefer middle length filters, which IMO provide the best balance between more aspects of music, like old good poly-sinc-mp, new poly-sinc-hb-m, poly-sinc-gauss-halfband and middle aged poly-sinc-gauss - these 4 are IMO extremely universal, although not the same. Of course it depends on the audio chain used, room acoustics and listener preferences so different people prefer different filters, including the hardest to reach ones.

[Miska]

12 hours ago, bubbleguuum said:

System UI issue: start BubbleUPnP, go into 'More > Settings > Control' and disable 'Android 11+ notification'.

 

I cannot go there, as the crash loop begins immediately when I try to start BubbleUPnP app and then I need to reboot the phone to get it back to usable state.

 

12 hours ago, bubbleguuum said:

Although this should be normally disabled by default on Moto devices running Android 12, since v4.3.2.

If you cannot even get there try again after clearing app data in Android Settings > Apps > BubbleUPnP > Storage.

This issue is actually a bug introduced by some

System UI change on these devices (Moto, Android 12) done by the manufacturer that broke the default Android 11+ media notification (at leas in how BubbleUPnP use it). No other devices have this issue.

 

I can try that... Although I don't have a Motorola device. My phone is Nokia 8.3 5G running "androidone" Android 12. So it is pure Android straight from Google without manufacturer modifications.