Best way to add multiple HDD connections to a motherboard?

[AudioDoctor]

I am heading full steam ahead in building a machine which has as its sole purpose to serve and store music files for playback on my network. This machine will be a desktop machine with a bunch of HDDs in some ZFS set up yet to be determined. The OS will be Ubuntu server LTS. I want to use an ASUS X670e pro art motherboard. This motherboard has only 4 SATA ports which is why I am exploring PCIe cards that add more SATA ports. I am far outside my knowledge base here and have no idea what is good, what I am looking at, what I should avoid, etc... I have learned one thing so far and that is to avoid any card with an onboard RAID controller as ZFS will be taking care of that.

 

Any suggestions?

[davide256]

Can't say I have any expertise but this article may be food for thought. Author definitely dislikes  cheap SATA expansion cards.

 

https://unraid-guides.com/2020/12/07/dont-ever-use-cheap-pci-e-sata-expansion-cards-with-unraid/

 

[AudioDoctor]

4 hours ago, davide256 said:

Can't say I have any expertise but this article may be food for thought. Author definitely dislikes  cheap SATA expansion cards.

 

https://unraid-guides.com/2020/12/07/dont-ever-use-cheap-pci-e-sata-expansion-cards-with-unraid/

 

 

Thanks, that's informative!

[Jud]

Here, from the horse's mouth: https://www.truenas.com/docs/core/gettingstarted/corehardwareguide/#storage-controllers

 

I cannot tell you how many posts in the TrueNAS forums (not running it, but intend to one of these days and doing my advance research) I have read with essentially the message "Don't screw around, get yourself some good reliable HBAs."

[AudioDoctor]

SO basically, I need this, unless I want to figure out how to flash one.

https://www.pc-pitstop.com/9305-24i

[Jud]

5 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

SO basically, I need this, unless I want to figure out how to flash one.

https://www.pc-pitstop.com/9305-24i

 

I don't know enough about TrueNAS to understand why you don't need to flash this. (BTW, I see a 12Gbps 9500 series for only $140 more. 😉)

[AudioDoctor]

27 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

I don't know enough about TrueNAS to understand why you don't need to flash this. (BTW, I see a 12Gbps 9500 series for only $140 more. 😉)

 

This one does not include a raid controller, according to the first link shared by David above, and therefore does not need to be flashed into a different mode to turn that function off. 

 

Second, I am not going to be using TrueNAS, rather Ubuntu Server. TrueNAS is incapable of running Minimserver. I am keeping my TrueNAS device as pure backup, local and offsite.

[AudioDoctor]

This monster will be going into a Define 7 XL case which can fit up to 18HDDs. I am planning on using 12 which leaves me 4 spare power ports available for future expansion.

 

edit: I will also be using ECC RAM, undecided how much though, probably 64GB.

[Jud]

5 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

Second, I am not going to be using TrueNAS, rather Ubuntu Server. TrueNAS is incapable of running Minimserver. I am keeping my TrueNAS device as pure backup, local and offsite.

 

Makes lots of sense. I have wondered why (besides one-box simplicity, granted) folks want to combine an app server with file storage/backup, rather than just running apps on an appropriate OS and grabbing the media files from a nicely set up NAS.

[yamamoto2002]

For 18 drives, I recommend SAS Expander enclosure like Netstor NS385S-8028

and any SAS host bus adapter with external SAS connector. I'm long term fan of Adaptec so I'll choose something like HBA Ultra 1200-16e. While many people prefer second hand Broadcom/Avago/LSI cards.

 

Or goes to one box solution of Gamers Nexus route, Norco RPC-4224 and two SAS HBA with internal SAS connectors internal SAS cables and direct attach.

 

One thing to consider is external SAS connector and internal SAS connector has different shape

 

[AudioDoctor]

13 minutes ago, yamamoto2002 said:

For 18 drives, I recommend SAS Expander enclosure like Netstor NS385S-8028

and any SAS host bus adapter with external SAS connector. I'm long term fan of Adaptec so I'll choose something like HBA Ultra 1200-16e. While many people prefer second hand Broadcom/Avago/LSI cards

 

Or goes to Gamers Nexus route, Norco RPC-4224 and two SAS HBA with internal connector fan out cable and direct attach

 

 

I wasn't aware that something like this existed, thanks.  This is exactly why I asked. However, other than more drive space expandability, what benefit would this give me over putting 12HDDs in the computer case?

[Jud]

Unable to come up with pricing on the Netstor products.

[AudioDoctor]

2 minutes ago, Jud said:

Unable to come up with pricing on the Netstor products.

 

Same, I can't either.

[Jud]

Just now, AudioDoctor said:

 

Same, I can't either.

 

PC Pitstop has prices on SAS expander enclosures by other manufacturers. But I'm getting the impression these are storage-only.

[Jud]

Deleted. I realized I misunderstood a quote I'd written about.

[AudioDoctor]

Just now, Jud said:

TrueNAS docs re SAS expanders:

 

"While SAS expanders, designed for SAS disks, can often support SATA disks via the SATA Tunneling Protocol or STP, we still prefer SAS disks for reasons mentioned in the NL-SAS section above (SATA disks function on a SAS-based backplane)."

 

IOW, in my extremely limited understanding, "We folks at TrueNAS like HBAs better than SAS expanders for [reasons]." 

 

Yep, I didn't forget you're not building a TrueNAS machine.  Just figuring these folks have a lot of experience with issues similar to those you're working through.

 

I think you're probably right Jud.

[Jud]

Just now, AudioDoctor said:

 

I think you're probably right Jud.

 

I think I may have gotten it backwards, hard for me to tell. 🙂 They're saying they prefer SAS disks rather than SATA disks for SAS expanders, I believe.

[AudioDoctor]

1 minute ago, Jud said:

 

I think I may have gotten it backwards, hard for me to tell. 🙂 They're saying they prefer SAS disks rather than SATA disks for SAS expanders, I believe.

 

While it's an interesting idea, I think it's beyond what I want to do anyway. The one box solution I have is in my opinion a better idea and less complex.

[yamamoto2002]

I went to direct attach route before and experienced cabling mess

and it narrows the choice of host adapters: so many output connectors are needed and I eventually DIY modified direct attach enclosure to SAS expander enclosure with second hand Adaptec 82885T. SAS expander simplify the connection between computer and storage.

 

BTW, If you goes to SAS expander enclosure route, be sure to check the expander enclosure accepts SATA drives, some enclosures only accept SAS drives and the HDD costs will be skyrocketed.

[Jud]

10TB SAS drive on Amazon (just for completeness, @AudioDoctor has already mentioned this is probably beyond the scope of what he wants to do):

 

https://www.amazon.com/Ultrastar-HUH721010AL5200-0F27352-Platform-Enterprise/dp/B01GXUR98G?th=1

[AudioDoctor]

8 minutes ago, Jud said:

10TB SAS drive on Amazon (just for completeness, @AudioDoctor has already mentioned this is probably beyond the scope of what he wants to do):

 

https://www.amazon.com/Ultrastar-HUH721010AL5200-0F27352-Platform-Enterprise/dp/B01GXUR98G?th=1

 

Thanks Jud, I will look that drive up elsewhere as I intentionally block Amazon and eBay on my network.

[AudioDoctor]

For comparison, this is what I am likely using:  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1731376-REG/wd_wdbc9v0060hh1_wrsn_6tb_red_plus_cmr.html

[Jud]

46 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Thanks Jud, I will look that drive up elsewhere as I intentionally block Amazon and eBay on my network.

 

Another SAS drive example, this one from Newegg:

 

https://www.newegg.com/toshiba-mg06sca800e-8tb/p/1Z4-000B-009N6?Item=1Z4-000B-009N6&Description=sas drives&cm_re=sas_drives-_-1Z4-000B-009N6-_-Product

[AudioDoctor]

11 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Another SAS drive example, this one from Newegg:

 

https://www.newegg.com/toshiba-mg06sca800e-8tb/p/1Z4-000B-009N6?Item=1Z4-000B-009N6&Description=sas drives&cm_re=sas_drives-_-1Z4-000B-009N6-_-Product

 

Thanks. I should block Newegg too. That is nearly double the price of my intended drive, not to mention other increased costs to accommodate it and it's just too much of everything for my use.

[Jud]

2 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Thanks. I should block Newegg too. That is nearly double the price of my intended drive, not to mention other increased costs to accommodate it and it's just too much of everything for my use.

 

You can block the objectionable stuff from these sites with the Vivaldi browser and Privacy Badger. Kind of having your cake and eating it too.  Unless of course you find them objectionable in their totality. 🙂