Forget Amarra. Use Pro Tools 9.

[Leigh Hibbins]

I used to think Amarra was the ant’s pants for sound. Now I use Pro Tools 9 which I have discovered is a quantum leap above Amarra.

Just as after first using Amarra in Playlist and Cahce modes I could not go back to iTunes, now after using Pro Tools I cannot go back to Amarra.

Pro Tools is not designed for duties as a domestic music server but is a recording and playback software for the professional sound recordist and the home hobbyist. Its excellent sound quality however lends itself to be considered for use in any serious hi-fi system. It takes some time to learn to use. Importing (ripping) CD's in to Pro Tools takes some doing. An average CD takes half an hour to import, but this is reassuring in the sense an accurate rip is likely to be occurring. (I did import in to Pro Tools audio files I had previously ripped using iTunes. These were inferior in sound quality to files imported directly in to Pro Tools from the CD.) Then there is much fiddling about naming each song and placing songs consecutively in a Pro Tools session. Only one session can be played back at a time. The session must then be closed and another opened to continue. Just like changing CD's in a CD player or changing LP's on the turntable. The quality of sound makes it all worthwhile.

Downloaded high resolution files are more easily imported than CD's.

Pro Tools also allows you to digitise your vinyl and do any other recordings if you have microphones or MIDI instruments. All for the same cost as the full version of Amarra.

Pro Tools is stable and reliable. No glitches. It is a truly professional piece of software. I have experienced excellent support from my reseller whenever I have needed it – in person or on the phone.

Being able to see the waveform of the music is also good. It is interesting just how many CD’s and even high resolution downloads are compressed (in dynamic range).

There may not be any specific iPhone nor iPad apps for controlling Pro Tools but general screen sharing apps such as Mocha VNC Lite will do. You can also use a laptop on the coffee table to control and screen share your music server computer.

 

PRO TOOLS 9 ADVANTAGES

The sound

The sound

The sound

Reliability. Stability.

Digitise vinyl

Do other recordings

 

PRO TOOLS 9 DISADVANTAGES

Takes time to learn the software

Slow and fiddly to import CDs

No playlist feature.

No random play.

No specific iPhone nor iPad apps

 

I would be happy to post instructions on this website regarding importing CD’s in to Pro Tools if any readers would like. If you’re new to Pro Tools it can take some learning. I was previously using Pro Tools LE 7 for digitising vinyl and so was already familiar with it. I obtained version 9 because Pro Tools 9 now allows its use with non-Avid (non-Digidesign) hardware such as my Apogee Duet. The combination of the Duet and PT9 is a fantastic one. I have never enjoyed computer playback so much.

 

 

[ianmacc]

 

Hi Leigh

 

I am using Amarra 2.11 without any problems and am very happy with the sound quality after comparisons with most of the current competitors.

 

However, your post did get my attention as I am always striving for the ultimate quality, regardless of any inconvenience. Your following quote was very interesting:

 

"......Just like changing CD's in a CD player or changing LP's on the turntable. The quality of sound makes it all worthwhile."

 

I totally agree - not that long ago, we all had to get up off our butts to change music and so the fact that playlists, iPhone compatibility, it's a bit fiddly, etc don't bother me. I just want maximum quality.

 

So..... I will have a look at Pro Tools over the weekend (I hope they have a trial download) and report back.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Regards, Ian

Manchester, UK

 

[DavidL]

Another tool for professional audio work. Very robust software and excellent sound.

David

 

[Miska]

I used to think Amarra was the ant’s pants for sound. Now I use Pro Tools 9 which I have discovered is a quantum leap above Amarra.

 

One of the things is that these are rarely "bit-perfect". They just run everything through their audio engine (optionally with bunch of processing plugins) and output is what the engine processes out.

 

I would say things could get much forward, if there would be less paranoia about bit-perfect'ness of playback. Analog world is never bit-perfect anyway and DA-converters rarely too.

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Miska - I use a Pyramix machine and it's bit perfect by default when playing back two channel audio. I do think bit perfect is a must unless one is trying to color the sound. Without perfect output our expensive and well designed hardware doesn't have a chance. I can't imagine people would accept a CD transport that output 48 kHz instead of 44.1 kHz.

 

[Miska]

I use a Pyramix machine and it's bit perfect by default when playing back two channel audio.

 

I don't use Pyramix, but the ones I've used run hardware at maximum bit depth always and typically are clever enough the dither the output of mix bus.

 

Without perfect output our expensive and well designed hardware doesn't have a chance. I can't imagine people would accept a CD transport that output 48 kHz instead of 44.1 kHz.

 

[rant]

How about expensive and well designed software? How about giving the hardware a chance by giving it better data? I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that any particular hardware would give it's best performance when given any data at any rate "bit-perfect"! Usually particular piece of hardware is at it's best only when running at some specific rate and bit depth. And not at it's best on any other setting.

 

Why the processing done in hardware would be any better than the one done in software? How about a case when hardware is actually running firmware that is doing the processing? Running software touching the bits inside DAC-chip is OK, but not outside of it? How about all the constrains small inexpensive non-cooled IC has in terms of processing, amount of memory available, etc? How about something like dCS converters, doing bunch of DSP before handing the data over the SDM-DAC stage (which is still, AFAIK, SDM regardless of oversampling in use or not)? Or Meridian running apodizing filter software in their converter is Amazing™, but similar thing done inexpensively in software for any DAC is Bad™.

 

One of the common examples is using 24-bit NOS DAC and sending it RedBook data padded with zeros. All the 8 LSB stuck to static value - practically turned off. This definitely is NOT the best way to use hardware. One third of it turned off! Oh yeah, but it's bit-perfect, so it must be the best?

 

What I fail to understand is why something happening before (side A) some magic cable connection between A and B is Bad™ and the similar thing done in more constrained way after the cable connection (side B) is Good™...

 

So somehow the thinking goes that automatically software is Bad™ and hardware is Good™.

 

IMO, if there's oversampling, EQ, volume with dither, whatever, it is best done where it can be done best with least constraints regardless where that is. It's not about coloring sound.

 

And hardware could color sound still, even when fed with bit-perfect data.

 

[/rant]

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Miska - This is an awesome topic that we should move to a new thread. I will open the thread and come back here to enter a link.

 

 

 

Now back to the Pro Tools discussion.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Here's the link to the software / hardware discussion.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Software-Hardware-Comparison

 

[Richiyaado]

Pro Tools just for audio playback? Hoo mama! That's like having a nuke instead of a 12-gauge Mossberg for home defense.

 

I think I'll just stick with Pure Music and Fidelia. ; )

 

[jkevin]

Digitizing vinyl(!) for many years with Griffin iMic and Spin Doctor, now Garageband and EMU 0204, I'm tempted to try my musician son's Logic Express, but need some tutoring. I DO use iTunes/iPhone remote with a Mac Mini server to organize and play back through Arcam/Linn system. Toyed with PureMusic, but mini pram doesn't allow memory playback. Sound improved enough that I'm trolling for an Intel Mini with 2GB pram.

 

Because I simply listen and enjoy the music and don't try to overanalyze the sound-which is NOT the music by the way- I find that iTunes and all my digitized archives entertain me enough.

 

I understand, as an old Linnie, that source mat'l quality is very important, but find that my simple, frugal solution works pretty well.

 

System 1: Arcam A80, Arcam CD72, 1990s NAD Tuner, Sondek LP12, Mk1 Linn Kans, Celestion MP1s, Mac Mini PPC, Cakewalk UA-1G

 

System 2: Denon PMA720, AR XB w/Grace 707, Athena AS-B1, iMac Intel OS 10.6, E-MU 0204

 

Back to the question: Logic Express anyone? I'm relaxed with Garageband, and enjoying the listening to and preservation of vintage LPs. Is Express that much more complicated? I'm expecting that I can output 24/96 with LE.

Will iTunes play it back at that resolution?

 

 

 

[SteveS1]

Pro Tools 9 isn't even a sledgehammer to crack a nut - it's a piledriver.

 

 

[Vadim in Tuapse]

Hello Leigh.

Thanks for this post. Yesterday I had the opportunity to compare the Pro Tools 9 sound quality vs Amarra on another Macbook Pro. You're absolutely right about the sound quality of Pro Tools 9. It is excellent indeed. I'm impressed.

How do you complete a session? Drag'n'drop all the album tracks in a single timeline? Did you compare the Pro Tools CD rip quality vs XLD?

Thanks.

 

[Leigh Hibbins]

Hi Vadim,

 

Perhaps when I have time I could write detailed instructions for Pro Tools CD ripping, one for those already familiar with Pro Tools and one for those not.

First, place the CD to be ripped in a CD-ROM drive. I use an external CD-ROM drive connected via Firewire to my MacBook Pro. I have previously found this arrangement superior to using the CD-ROM drive of the MBP itself when doing iTunes rips. To avoid confusing Pro Tools have your audio interface connected during the rip. My MBP, and your Mac Minis, have only one Firewire port. To connect both an audio interface and external CD-ROM drive may require daisy chaining. Make sure on playback, though, you have your audio interface connected directly to your computer for best sound.

Pro Tools does not work with a NAS but only with directly connected external drives via USB or Firewire (or an internal, separate drive in a desktop computer). Pro Tools advise against recording to your system drive.

Create a new session in Pro Tools with settings 16 bits and 44.1kHz. (I have tried a setting of 88.2kHz but this resulted in a congested and bloated sound.) Name this session with album title, creating a new folder with the artist name, saving this folder in turn to an appropriate folder on your record drive.

Then in Pro Tools go to the "File" menu and select "Import" and from here "Audio...".

Then navigate to the CD to be ripped in the Open Dialog. (CDs previously ripped with iTunes may be conveniently listed with all song names. The computer remembers them. Other CDs list simply as Track 1, Track 2, etc.) Select the tracks to be imported. Then click on the "Convert" button and then the "Done" button.

Then an Open Dialog box will appear which has selected the "Audio Files" folder to be placed in the album folder you just created. I have no reason to place the "Audio Files" folder anywhere else and so click the "Open" button and the import starts. An average CD will take about 30 minutes to import. Make a cup of tea, listen to some music, read the newspaper.

When the import is finished an "Audio Import Options" dialog box will appear with asks you for a destination, either "New track" or "Region list". Select "Region list" and click "OK".

Then, if the Regions list is not in view click on the small arrow (with the small vertical bar next to it) at the very bottom right of the Edit Window. The Region List will appear. It can be widened by dragging its border.

Your songs will be listed in the Regions list. Songs can be renamed by doubling clicking on them, but keep the song number at the beginning of the title to maintain the correct order in this Regions list.

Then, select the first song in the Regions list. Make sure it is the only song selected. Then while holding down the Control key on the keyboard drag this song to the Edit window, then let go. At first it seems nothing is happening, but as soon as you let go a waveform will appear representing this first song. To the left of this waveform there is a square box with the name of this first song. It has a bright white background (not the wording which appears within the waveform). Double click this name. A dialog box appears. Change the name to the album name. Add comments as you wish in the "Comments" field such as "Pro Tools rip direct from CD". The click "OK". You can increase the height of the waveform by clicking on the tiny downward facing arrow to the left of this box. I like the "Jumbo" size.

Now make sure your cursor is at time zero in the waveform. Click on the appropriate transport button if it is not. Then hit the "Enter" key on your keyboard (fn+return on my MBP). A "New Memory Location" dialog will appear. Enter the name of the song – leave off its number. Click "OK". Go to the "Window" menu and select "Memory Locations". The "Memory Locations" window will appear with your first song listed in it. Select "Min:Sec" from the drop down menu within the "Memory Locations" window to display timings.

Now hit the Tab key on your keyboard. The cursor should move the exact end of this first song. If not click the appropriate transport button. With the cursor at the exact end of the waveform, hit the Enter key on your keyboard (or fn+return). Again the "New Memory Location" dialog will appear. Type in the name of the second song and click "OK". Then while holding down the control key on your keyboard select the second song from the Regions list and drag it to the Edit window and then let go. The second song will be placed exactly at the end of the first song. Repeat this procedure until all songs have been done. I like to place a memory locator right at the end of the session titled "END OF SESSION" so that the total length of the session is then displayed in the "Memory Locations" window.

Once done, save your session. If need be quit Pro Tools to reconnect your audio interface directly to your computer. Then open the session and get ready for some great sound!

Hope this is of help. Looks like I did the detailed instructions after all!

You can import audio files from previous iTunes rips much more quickly but these sound inferior. Best to rip directly from the CD in to Pro Tools. You can import high resolution downloads in to Pro Tools as well, just make sure to specify the right bit and sample rates when creating the session. Such importing is much faster.

 

Happy listening.

 

[dimsal]

I had similar impression as Leigh but only using Soundtrack Pro which is now part of Logic Studio. Very nice music player. I also successfully used Soundtrack Pro to rip my vinyl collection.

 

If anyone needs some tips on using Soundtrack Pro for digitizing their vinyl, PM me.

 

[Vadim in Tuapse]

Leigh,

 

Many thanks for the detail HowTo! Of course, this procedure is much more complicated than in other players, but I think the quality is worth it. Thanks again for your help, I think it'll be appreciated by the many who put the sound quality above convenience.

 

Best regards.

 

[Leigh Hibbins]

Vadim,

 

Yes the CD ripping procedure in Pro Tools is much more involved and time consuming but once it's done, it's done. While this extra time and effort is required I am finding playback in Pro Tools so much more simple:

 

I don't have to be worried about adding album art and then losing it. Pro Tools has no capacity for album art. Simple.

 

I don't have to worry about adding metadata and then losing it. I can store information in the comments box in each Pro Tools session. I have been using Pro Tools for years and never lost this information. I was repeatedly losing metadata in iTunes especially rips I had made from vinyl at 24/48.

 

I don't have to worry about starting up my NAS hoping it will auto mount and then at the end of the session having to close it down. Pro Tools does not work with a NAS. I have to use directly attached storage which automatically and quickly starts up and shuts down with my computer. Simple.

 

I don't have to worry about making up playlists. There is no playlist or random play feature in Pro Tools. Simple. (Although, I believe you can create a new session with songs exported from previously created sessions. Any songs in any order, but then it is fixed. A bit like the home compilation cassette mixes of yore.)

 

I don't have to worry about bugs and glitches or losing stuff when I upgrade. I have never had this happen with Pro Tools. It is rock solid in my experience.

 

I am now more focused than ever on listing to the music.

 

[audiozorro]

I’m not sure if Pro Tools 9 is the best CD ripper but many of us know that the iTunes ripper is not and it leaves a lot to be desired. Many of us use dBpoweramp, EAC or one of the other rippers associated with AccurateRip. Perhaps only you can easily determine if CD ripping in Pro Tools 9 results in better sonic playback than ripping the same CD using dBpoweramp and then playing it back through Pro Tools 9.

 

Thanks for describing the process, but to me the process for CD ripping using Pro Tools 9 seems like a Royal PITA. IMO that process is too much work and would suck all the fun out of computer audio. And of course all ripping methods and results are inferior to getting digital downloads or DVD data discs of the studio master files. If you think I’m wrong then I suggest that you buy the Equinox CD from Soundkeeper Recordings. Rip the Equinox CD using Pro Tools 9 and send it to Barry Diament at Soundkeeper Recordings for evaluation and comments.

 

That aside, your experience using Pro Tools 8 for CD ripping is thought provoking and perhaps tantalizing or troubling for those very few folks that might be compelled to re-rip their CD collections. My opinion is that such an effort is not worth it anymore than someone who digitizes their LP collection with a $1K cartridge and later buys a $5K cartridge. It’s fine to re-record a few favorites but not your entire collection just because you will get better results.

 

 

[Leigh Hibbins]

Hi audiozorro,

 

Your points are all valid.

 

Easier ripping would be great. What do you consider the best CD ripping software for Mac?

 

Even if the rip is easier importing the rip in to Pro Tools remains fiddly.

 

[Vadim in Tuapse]

Hi Leigh,

 

Although, I believe you can create a new session with songs exported from previously created sessions. Any songs in any order, but then it is fixed. A bit like the home compilation cassette mixes of yore.

 

 

For me it's probably the best way, because I've converted hundreds of my CDs using XLD. So far, I figured that XLD is a best accurate ripper in Mac. My music collection is stored in an external hard drive via usb. The name of each folder matches the name of the album. Inside the folder containing the songs in Apple lossless format and a subfolder with the arts.

I'd not want to transform all this into the Pro Tools session format - it'll take a long time. For each listening every time I could create a new session by importing into it the songs from the existing collection. How to make it easier on the basis of your experience? Simple dragging them into the Editor window?

 

 

I don't have to be worried about adding album art and then losing it. Pro Tools has no capacity for album art.

 

 

I'm not particularly worried about it. If I want to see album arts while listening, I run into the right half of the screen an image viewer (CocoViewX) in slideshow mode. Like this http://i2.fastpic.ru/big/2011/0228/6b/862f4b7e507696968fab6469137d516b.jpg :-)

 

[Leigh Hibbins]

Hi Vadim,

 

I'm not sure if Pro Tools will import Apple Lossless files but try it out:

 

Create a new session.

Select import audio files.

Navigate to the desired files on your attached drive. If they are greyed out then you can't import them.

If they are able to be imported then as previously import to Region list.

Then create your session with the songs in the order you want.

The only part that will be quicker will be the actual import – rather than 30 minutes it might just be a few minutes. You still then have to arrange the imported songs in to a session.

 

[iocomposer]

This blog is so funny I just had to make a comment.

 

Using PT9 for CD playback is like wearing a tux to burning man. Your quality bottleneck is the DACs on your audio interface and your sync clock. If you're using PT with a mediocre interface and using the internal clock, it's not going to really improve your audio quality over iTunes. Though you may think it does because Protools is a professional tool, recently opened up to the masses via the native update.... a placebo effect of sorts. The reason you would get better quality audio output through protools is by accessing high end hardware and syncing your clock to a master crystal like an Apogee Big Ben or similar. If you're just using PT9 through the same cheapo audio interface you're using for iTunes or Amarra, the difference in sound quality would be splitting hairs at best.

 

You want a real boost in quality, yeah use protools, but get one of these:

http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/symphony-system.php

 

Oh... and PT uses quicktime to rip CDs, so you're not getting a more accurate data transfer through it. Trust me on this... I've been a professional user of protools for 17 years now

 

HTH!

 

 

[Vadim in Tuapse]

Leigh,

Pro Tools imports alac files without any problem. Your import instruction works also good. Thanks you.

 

 

@iocomposer

 

 

Ultimately, I do not care whether PT for professional use or not. The main criterion of choice for me is the pleasure of music listening. I trust above all to my ears. And now after two days of listening I prefer PT others like Amarra, Pure Music, Fidelia. Of course this is my IMHO. I understand that with another system, all may sound differently. :~)

 

[omasciarotte]

Leigh wrote:

There may not be any specific iPhone nor iPad apps for controlling Pro Tools...

 

Hey Leigh,

 

As remotes are almost a necessity in the pro environment, such things for PT do exist. A popular example:

 

http://www.folabs.com/

 

[Kevin_O]

I have an HD3 Accel system and it isn't that great. If you want quality Professional software, then use either Pyramix, SoundBlade, SADiE, Sequoia or Sonoma.

 

Before you say anything, I have the PT rig connected to a 192, Lynx Aurora and a DAD AX24 via Digilink.

 

[iocomposer]

Fair enough. But if you really want to hear a big difference, try syncing good hardware to a solid clock. If you're impressed by the small jump between native PT9 and Amarra, then you'll be floored by the giant leap you'll hear by losing all of the jitter.

 

Oh also... I'm using the Neyrinck iPad controller for PT which works great. You can have your memory locations linked to the touch interface and move to them with a single touch. Plus it's $50 cheaper than the other one.