T+A DAC 200

[jonniema]

Hi all,

 

Just got the DAC200 as replacement to the DAC8DSD. Great improvement, never imagined there would be such difference! My favorite config seems to bem upsampling to DSD512 with Roon and using NOS1 filter on the dac.

 

Quick question though and as this might be helpful for others too:

Has anyone been able to perform a firmware upgrade to the DAC? Hope it is not limited to be performed by t+a support like the HV seems to be…

The version list is public so would make sense to make the firmware available too

http://updates.ta-hifi.de/firmware/auto_download/DAC200/docs/versions_DAC200.txt

 

The main reason i am looking to this (beyond bug corrections and improvements of course) is that on newer firmware versions it is possible turn off IR reception. This is useful as i am using a PA3100HV/PS3000HV combo and the remote controls both dac and integrated thus releasing an unnecessarily symphony of relay clickage. :)

 

Not sure if @OE333 can help out here

 

Cheers!

[jonniema]

14 minutes ago, OE333 said:

 

 

The DAC200/HA200 firmware can be updated with the help of a T+A MP200 streamer. The MP200 will download the latest DAC200 firmware from the internet and then it will update the DAC200. This is the easiest, safest and recommended way to update the DAC's firmware.

 

If you don't have a MP200 at hand, maybe you could ask your T+A dealer to do the update for you.

 

There is also a way to do the update without MP200  from a Windows PC using a special T+A programming adaptor (USB -> T+A E2Link adaptor).

 

Theoretically such a USB->E2Link adaptor could be built as a DIY project, but any attempt of a DIY firmware update with some home-brew programming adaptor would mean a BIG risk of bricking the DAC.  For this reason I really strongly recommend to use a MP200 for the update - or to ask the T+A support or your T+A dealer/importer to perform the update.

 

 

Hi!

 

Great! That seems like a relatively easy process. I surely don’t want a big silver paperweight…

My dealer has the M200 in stock and on display, so will ask them to help.

 

BTW. Would the same apply for the P3100HV and PS3000HV? I.e.: if i connect an MP3100HV it updates the others?

 

Wishful thinking to T+A… although i do acknowledge this process is super clean, it is somewhat limited to whoever owns an MP (or asking the dealer to help with a unused/in-stock unit). I do wish there was a simple pc executable to update the DAC200 via USB.

 

Tks!

 

 

[jonniema]

20 minutes ago, OE333 said:

 

Yes, the same is true for all T+A series including HV: the streamer can update all other T+A devices connected to it.

A FW update with this method is done in a couple of minutes and it is absolutely safe.

 

And as I mentioned in my post, there is a way to update the firmware from a (Windows) PC.

Currently this method is limited to T+A service workshops because if anything goes wrong, it could brick the device and make it necessary to send it to a T+A service point for recovery.

If there is a common interest in doing FW updates from a PC I could discuss this topic with T+A to see what is possible...

 

 

I would certainly be very interested in such update method as i use a pc for upsampling and streaming.

Furthermore it would require me to have both MP200 and MP HV to update all my components which is certainly unfeasible. No to mention some components are a 40Kg pain (each) to carry whenever they need to do a trip to the dealer. :)

 

Many thanks for your help

[jonniema]

On 12/13/2022 at 8:55 AM, OE333 said:

 

I will see what I can do...

I want to thank @OE333 for the tip. I updated the DAC200 via an MP200 (i was lucky, it was the only one in stock on my dealer and it was already sold to be picked up the next day!) 😅 JIT

 

Also would like to ask if anyone else is experiencing problems with Roon not being able to play songs after turning DAC off and on.

 

(playing via ASIO driver in native mode with DSD512 upsampling…)

 

Here’s what happens…

After a listening session i always turn DAC off and leave NUC running. The next time i want to listen i turn the DAC on and when press play on Roon UI it just ends up flying by all songs on the playlist/album until it says “nothing playing” as it cannot get control of the DAC.

 

To get it back to play i need to go to device setup on Roon, change any option and save.

 

I suspect this is a Roon issue and already reported, but they might be overwhelmed with requests and no answers still.

 

Tks

[jonniema]

4 minutes ago, OE333 said:

 

Is your Roon Server NUC running on Linux or Windows ?

I would like to reproduce this problem and see if I can find out anything.

But please give me a couple of days because currently I am very busy...

 

 

Take your time! I can only thank the fact you are even willing to look at it. 🙏

 

My Roon Server is running Windows 10 (tweaked with Audiophile Optimizer 3.0)

Can give you further info or collect data if needed.

 

 

Vielen dank!

 

[jonniema]

2 hours ago, OE333 said:

 

Hi @jonniema,

I have investigated this problem yesterday and iI think it is more a roon related problem. It seems, that under certain circumstances, roon does not realize, that the USB connection to the DAC device is lost.

As you have also posed your question in the roon community forum, I have posted a more detailed reply to your case there. https://community.roonlabs.com/t/t-a-dac-200-thread/172007/18

 

I have also contacted my colleagues at T+A (and roon) and I will let you know what they found out after the X-mas holidays in January.

 

 

 

Hi @OE333!

 

Yes, I was 99% convinced it was a Roon issue dealing with the DAC after being turned off/on when specifically DSD Native was being used (it does not seem to happen with PCM).

I was not sure at the time though, if any of the Audiophile optimizer tweak options had to do with this issue... but it doesn't seem so at this point.

 

Thanks for the feedback and for the facilitating resolution with Roon as this is something that currently ruins a bit the user experience for me, and I suspect other might be experiencing the same.

 

 

Happy holidays!

 

 

[jonniema]

3 hours ago, Mist1Fu said:

Hello everyone,

I’m a new member, but have been reading and following this topic about the DAC-200 and many other posts in the forums. I own a DAC-200 as well and I enjoy very much the quality in all aspects of this device. I wanted to ask OE333 about a change I have noticed since updating the firmware a day ago; the relay doesn’t click anymore when changing resolution of music files, has this changed since the latest firmwares? When I bought the DAC it was on Ver.1.11 and up until the update yesterday the relay clicked for any single track or file with different resolutions, but I just noticed when I started listening to music that it doesn’t click at all but still shows the change in resolution.

Thanks in advance to any reply.

http://updates.ta-hifi.de/firmware/auto_download/DAC200/docs/versions_DAC200.txt

 

Not the complete answer and for sure OE333 would know all details, but the change log does mention a change to the firmware that reduces relay clicking after v1.12

[jonniema]

I also prefer NOS2 mode. To me it sounds the best with good resampling (even when upsampled by roon)

[jonniema]

36 minutes ago, lsantista said:

sorry for the question, but how do I do firmware update? the menu on the device shows Ver 1.03 and USB ver 1.10

latest USB driver installed on PC

The simper way is to connect DAC200 to a MP200 connected to the internet (you can try asking your dealer if you are lucky they have one currently in stock)

[jonniema]

On 3/15/2023 at 7:23 AM, Nkam said:

It’s wonderful partaking in these forums.   
 

chit chatting about stuff we love.  
 

but at the same time I can’t help thinking……

 

what is everyone listening through?

can we see a freq response graph of their room and what is going on RTDecay wise? 
what other equipment are they using?  Amps , speakers? 
 

 

Please no offense as I do not mean it in a bad way. 
 

i just know that when I started my first setup and first room.  I hired someone to teach me REW and my journey of setting up my speakers and room with what I already had , had begun.    
because I am not a pro , it took me around two years to make a HUGE a difference in the sound quality.  
measurably as well 

 

and I remember listening to some DACs back then or other gear , now knowing my speakers and everything else wasn’t setup nearly optimally.  
 

 

just pondering.  
 

Rant over. 
 

 

 

I once bought a UMIK mic and measure the hell out of my room, only to loose my mind over bad response curves on REW (and the sweaping sound). Then started playing with filters (i had a bump around 80Hz driving me crazy) it did good things, but also did harm in other ways.

As far as room treatment, i don’t own a dedicated room for listening so treating it with dispersion, absorbtion etc. is not an option.

 

Now i just place the speakers the best i can in my roon and listen to where it is sounds best.

I have been able to detect improvements everytime i do a significant upgrade like this, and to be honest do not know the current decay, response graph etc. That was fun for a while, but not for long. :)

 

Regarding setup, i currently use:

• Streamer: NUC on akasa plato fanless case, tuned down for linearity and Win10 with audiophile optimizer
• Player: Roon DSD512 (7th CLANS, precise min phase)
• Power Supply for source: SoTM sps500
• DAC: T+A DAC200
• Integrated Amp: T+A PA3100HV + PS3000HV (power supply)
• Speakers: Magico A3
• Power care: an Audiotricity power conditioner
• Cabling: mainly a combination of Nordost Heimdall2 (USB and Speakers) and Frey2 (Interconnects)

 

I would also be interest knowing more about what other people use with their DAC200, especially regarding streamer and DSD upsampling with HQP. I would like to explore using HQPlayer, but i am totally lost with the countless threads and posts about the streamer and HQP topic.

 

Cheers!

 

[jonniema]

Hello all,

 

I am currently using an Intel NUC running win10 and roon server directly connected to DAC200 via USB.

Currently capable of running DSD512 with 7th Order CLANS Roon decoders (although with parellization).

 

This is good, but would like to explore alternative options to Roon with HQP decoders and filters.

Would my NUC be theoretically capable of handling say DSD512/ASDM7EC filters? 

 

Can also someone point out if DAC200 supports DSD1024 (Native DSD) other than via the ASIO windows driver? I.e: could i have my NUC running linux or other OS

 

I read many people use NAA, but not if any limitations using that.

 

Thx all!

 

- Intel NUC NUC8I7BEH2 , I7 8559U

- Crucial Ballistix SportsLT SODIMM DDR4 16GB 2400M

- Samsung SSD 860 EVO B2B SATA III 2.5P 250GB

- Intel SSD 660P 1TB NVME-PCIE-M.2 -1800R/1800W-150K/220K IOPS

- Akasa Plato X8 fanless enclosure

[jonniema]

35 minutes ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

Yes it does support DSD1024 in Linux no problem, but as @OE333 has said you may struggle to 1) run the modulator/filters at DSD 1024 rates and 2) tell the difference between DSD 512 and 1024 once you do

 

(SDV 3100 HV owner here and i'm struggling myself to fully distinguish between 512 and 1024!)

 

Thx all for your feedback!

 

Yes, i already suspected that would be the case.

DSD512 would be good enough at this stage, as I believe the big jump now would be changing from Roon to HQP modulators.

 

My thinking was:

• Could the NUC be capable of running DSD512/ASDM7EC, and....
• Would there be an advantage of runnning Ubuntu in this NUC as opposed to WIN10 (although it is "optimized" with AudiophileOptimizer and some motherboard restrictions)

I am really trying to avoid spending more on a superPC just for streaming, and i also feel i have enough boxes as it is.

What kind of setup do you guys go for? 

[jonniema]

24 minutes ago, Miska said:

Or you can just try booting up HQPlayer OS image on the NUC, from USB memory stick. No installation necessary. That is as slim OS you can get. But the build is slightly different than the generic build for Ubuntu, and I'm not absolutely certain which one will perform better on your quad core CPU

 

Tks for the tips!

 

Would HQP OS  also be able to run other apps as Roon Server? I was looking to mantain Roon as GUI.

[jonniema]

On 8/22/2023 at 11:24 AM, Woolf said:

Hi,
wanted to ask if anyone has experience connecting a Roon Nucleus via USB directly to the DAC200. I'm thinking of taking out my Auralic Aries G1.1 in between, since it doesn't seem to give me any advantage since I bought the Nucleus and switched to Roon, or am I missing something?

 

Hi, although not a Nucleus, i am using direct connection with Nordost Heimdall 2 USB cable from a NUC to DAC200.

The NUC has some tweaks similar to a Nucleus (akasa fanless case, Sotm sps500 power supply, win10 with Audiophile optimizer, bios tweaks to reduce CPU speed oscilations…etc).

 

I have tried some devices between the NUC and the DAC200 before, but did not find them to be adding benefit.

• Intona USB Isolator
• iFi iUSB 3.0
• Audioquest Jitterbug

 

PS. The cable (upgraded from an audioquest carbon) was a nice improvement. 

[jonniema]

On 9/30/2023 at 7:27 PM, OE333 said:

 

@Apollo, @SPAZ, @Asdfgh

 

Here comes a short answer to your questions:

• There will be a way back to the original T+A firmware
• I have access to the T+A firmware source code, so I can make a new FW version with the extended features whennever this is needed
• HT PassThrough is likely to be a new feature in the next major release of the standard T+A firmware but maybe I can integrate a pre-view of this feature in my "special edition" FW

I will be on holiday next week but I will respond in more detail when I'm back home.

I think I could release the "SE" firmware by mid of October.

 

 

Other suggestion would be the ability to disable remote control but only for volume buttons. E.g: Options to be: (Enabled, Disabled, Volume Disabled)

This is because i use the DAC200 with a PA3100HV and would like to use the remote to control volume on the PA3100HV but still be able to control the remaining fuctions on the DAC200. Currently using the disable remote disables all possibilities. Besides using the PA3100HV remote also messes with DAC200 volume dials.

 

Tks!

[jonniema]

On 12/13/2023 at 4:53 PM, OE333 said:

@DonaldM:

The DAC200 is supported as native DSD sink in all Linux kernels 5.x and higher. I don't know which kernel version ifi is using in their streamers, but if they use an older kernel, then this kernel needs to be patched to work with DAC200.

If you have a contact person at ifi you can send me the contact information via PM. I will then try to contact ifi to check if this problem can be solved.

 

 

 

 

 

Is there a difference in sound quality using native DSD over the provided T+A WIN ASIO drivers vs the Linux kernel? I see that you use the linux version... so that may be an indication they might be similar.

This would be a good incentive for me to move my NUC OS from WIN10 to an Ubuntu OS (ROCK would not support a future HQP installation which i want to leave in the open)

 

I could not do this with my previous DAC8DSD as it did not support native dsd with linux i believe.