Master Clock for your EtherREGEN

[audiobomber]

On 12/14/2022 at 5:03 PM, Superdad said:

I'm going to do one more comparison--the OCK-1 versus just the EtherREGEN's good internal clock that is just 3mm from its synth--and them I'll ship it up to @JohnSwensonfor him to measure on his highly resolving Jackson Labs PhaseStation.

Subscribing to the thread so I can hear the results of this test. External clocks seem to generate highly polarized opinions. Like this one for example:

 

JVS: You don't believe in using an external word clock. Why?

EM: Because I think this is the most stupid thing I've ever heard in the audio business. That means you have a precision clock that you have to connect to a wire to connect to a DAC, when the clock should be straight away where it belongs, inside the DAC, beside the DAC chip, if there is such a thing—not through a cable in a different box. This is so idiotic, it's not even funny. It's a money grab.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/meitner-emm-dv2-dsd-mqa-digital-audio

[audiobomber]

It makes sense to me to link various devices to a single master clock. I'm just not sure about an external clock with single device. Ed Meitner's argument makes sense, a high quality internal clock has an advantage, being a few millimeters away. That's why I will be very interested in @Superdad's test.

[audiobomber]

20 hours ago, Mops911 said:

Superdad was very explicit about clocks and proximity and stated several times that an external clock must be MUCH better than the internal due to the distance. However, it seems very much that this can be achieved. But yes, a lot of aftermarket external clocks will NOT improve the EtherRegens internal clock performance.

I assume clock cable choice is also crucial.

[audiobomber]

10 minutes ago, Superdad said:

The iFi SMPS units have been measured to show very high leakage currents (that's common mode AC over DC connections;

I am not aware of any such measurement for the iPower Elite, nor even for the iPower X. I think you are generalizing, based on the basic IPower.

 

Even the basic unit can be improved by grounding the DC jack barrel. Note that the Elite would not need a separate ground, as it has a three-prong AC cord.

[audiobomber]

9 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

I wound up having to use starquad cables (personally prefer Belden 1804A) to carry anything I was testing because it has significant shielding at low frequencies.

Is that a recommendation for use as a lab cable, or would it also make a great DC cable? 

[audiobomber]

18 minutes ago, ZeusOdin said:

Thanks. Agreed. John and Alex make some of the best products on the market. I can't believe I just found them. I have to peruse their entire inventory. Am I the only person wondering why they haven't produced a master reference clock yet? Sigh....

I'm not sure they believe an external clock is a good idea.

[audiobomber]

23 hours ago, Superdad said:

What ever gave you that idea?!

Nothing concrete, just speculation.

 

External clocking is clearly a challenge. I have heard designers state that a clock needs to be within a few millimeters of the chip. @TomJ has posted tests to this thread that show cause for concern, even with the expensive MutecREF10. Some people in this thread have lost signal, I assume due to jitter, just from a clock cable. The clock's power supply can inject noise into the system. Then there are your comments on the poor sound quality of the the LHY clock. 

 

I know that @JohnSwenson has a white paper on minimizing and avoiding pitfalls when using an external clock, but nowhere that I've seen has he come out and said that an external clock is actually recommended.

[audiobomber]

58 minutes ago, Johnnydev said:

+1 I am convinced that everything has an influence, power, LPS, cables etc on your internet installation

I agree. The SMPS my internet provider supplied with their modem was negatively affecting the sound of my main audio system, even though it was not directly in the chain from the NAS source. Both modem and NAS were connected to the same Furman power conditioner, which has EMI/RFI protection. I upgraded the modem PSU and heard a cleaner sound in the audio system, 15 meters from the network gear.

 

A friend said he heard an improvement by adding a Melco network switch, even though he was playing files from his K50 and the network was only used for control with his phone.