Digital Out on MacBook Pro

[phillip08]

Hello, new to the forum. Research ways of migrating over to a computer based system as I have started downloading higher resolution audio (24/96).

 

I have been reading allot about the use of USB to DAC's and have not read much about using digital optical out such as the one one my macbook pro.

 

What is the reason? Is it inferior to USB? Why?

 

Thank you for the help!

 

 

 

[wgscott]

If you don't need to go above 24/96, it should be fine. Some DACs only permit 16-bit via USB, like mine, so in my case it is a preferred option. In addition to the 96 kHz upper limit, some people suggest it is higher jitter than USB or coax.

 

I originally thought all optical cables were equal. They aren't.

 

[bottlerocket]

The common wisdom around here seems to be asyncronous USB is better (lower jitter) than the optical out on the MAC. So if you go the USB route, make sure the DAC you get has asyncronous USB. If you already have a DAC or amp that supports toslink via the optical output on the MAC, by all means use it. It works fine up to 24/96. In my case, my DAC's USB interface is worse than the optical and it is limited to 16/44, so I use the optical with good results.

 

USB is the most widely available interface on all computers, PC or MAC, so it makes sense that it gets the most attention. But the thing to remember is it is the DAC's interface that is the limiting factor, not the computer's when it comes to USB.

 

[Robinson]

Optical out of a Mac is a pretty darn good way to go especially as you are just getting into this stuff. Most all DAC's (and your Mac) are pretty good at putting out good sounds with this method; so as others have said, if you have it, use it. If/when you get further into computer audio you will find that other methods of getting music to your DAC exist and each must be evaluated with respect to the system that you are using. But for now and for as long as you want S/PDIF optical will serve very well.

 

[phillip08]

Thank you all for the help! I am thinking about getting something along the line of a Benchmark USB DAC1. Assuming if I go this route USB should only be used? Anything else I should consider besides the DAC1?

 

[bixby]

Two of the better dacs out there in that price range that sound really good are:

 

Blue Circle 509

Wyred for Sound Dac2

 

Many more in the next price bracket up that sound great also but you start to hit the diminishing returns level for most systems around this price bracket.

 

 

[bottlerocket]

Philip08, check out the Grace M903. It's asyncronous USB (Wavelength's Wavestream), has a good headphone amp and volume control and includes coax and optical. It's too new for reviews yet, but apparently its shipping at $1795 from Vintage and Sweetwater. On paper this looks better than the Benchmark DAC1 HDR, but I've not heard either.

 

 

 

[Ajax]

Hi Phillip,

 

I have the Benchmark HRD DAC 1 and get fantastsic results from it using the USB up to 24/96. IMO it sounds great. It also has coaxial and optical didital inputs up to 24/192 and a built in headphone amp. It utilises what is known as adaptive technology.... the jitter reaches the DAC and is then dealt with there. It sells for around $US1800 and is very simple plug and play - no drivers required.

 

I understand there was quite a leap forward in sound quality from the DAC 1 to the DAC 1 HDR. Check out Chris's review and the Benchmark web site.

 

Tha said the conventional wisdom is that an ashycronous USB DAC, where the DAC's clock controls the timing of the supply of data from the computer, is superior technology.

 

I am a non technical person but commonsense tells me that a device that is specifically designed to do a particular function well is going to perform much better than a device such as a computer that is trying to be all things to all people.

 

i.e. where the DAC takes control of the whole digital to analogue process you would naturally expect better results.

 

I do not know your budget but the new Arcam rDAC for $499 has got great reviews from Cris and others and it offers Ascyhronous USB as well as optical and coaxial. It is compact and relatively inexpensive and as your knowledge and desire to improve your sound grows it would make for a great second or "mobile" system.

 

i.e. it offers you the best of both worlds and you can simply experiment with which input you prefer, however, Chris is adamant the USB inut is by far the superior.

 

Alternatively if you go for just USB input then the Wavelength by a noted expert in the field, Gordon Rankin, at $900 sounds like the go.

 

I suggest you read Chris's reviews of the various DACs he has listed in his CASH list before you make up your mind.

 

Good luck

 

 

 

[realhifi]

The digital out from a MBP can sound terrific. Get one of the optical cables from Chord (Optichord) for the connection and get a Dac in your price range and voila, music.

Naim, Rega, Rotel, Wadia, Benchmark, PS Audio, etc.,etc. are all capable of taking an optical signal and making it sound terrific. The USB Dac is a moving target in my opinion and while it can indeed sound good when well implemented it also has it's own set of vices which some manufacturers have yet to get their heads around. You could even start with something simple like a USB hiface into a Dac if you want to start on that journey. There are actually a number of manufacturers that do not even have a USB input on their dacs.

 

As long as you already have a computer with a decent digital out I would use it. Get your feet wet, try some various types of software, maybe try out a dac or two from your dealer, see where you want to go with all of it.

 

 

 

[phillip08]

Thank you for the great help so far. I am still researching. I currently have a rotel 1062 integrated amp which I will use for to plug the DAC into to run to my speakers.

 

Anyone with knowledge of the 1062 and a good matching USB DAC for ~$1k?

 

[Talos2000]

Good luck with your research, phillip08! Here is where mine took me...

 

If you are interested in really high-end audio, you might want to check out the new CP-800 from Classe Audio. This high-end preamplifier is specifically designed to work with computer-based servers using the USB connection. It is, to my knowledge, a new concept (so far!). I have ordered one, but have not received it yet. I will be driving it directly from my MacBook Pro using Songbird. In the demonstration, the sound of a ripped lossless file file played through the MacBook was indistinguishable from the same CD played directly on Classe's $7000 audiophile CD player.

 

If you are interested, see http://audiovideotoday.com/blog/bid/47903/Classe-Audio-New-Products-at-Cedia-Expo-2010

 

 

 

[realhifi]

I deal in Rotel and they have come out with a new piece that you may be interested in which is the RDG-1520 which matches their new 15 series integrated amplifier (which by the way is a sweetheart). It is not only a 24/192 dac with 2 SPDIF inputs but is also a Upnp streamer and also an internet Radio handler. Oh, and it also has an iPad USB input on the front that takes the digital signal at 24/96 and, and, it also will play your Pandora account! A VERY nice piece for the price. It retails at $995. It does not however have the USB input that you are hoping for but has 1 optical and 1 rca Spdif that to my ears sound terrific with the output from a MacBook Pro or Mac Mini. As usual from Rotel, superb value for the money. Another you might want to look at is the new Rega Dac which does have a USB input but it only is for 16/44 resolution (cd quality) but also has a number of SPDIF inputs that do go as high as 24/192. It is also priced at $995 and from everything I have heard so far it is a SMOKING piece for the money. I will be getting those in later this week so can give some feedback if you still haven't found something.

Dave

 

[Jeff In San Diego]

I was surprised by the concerns over USB jitter. Did some reading about synchronous and asynch USB and found it hard to imagine that anything purporting to be audiophile gear would rely on the USB clock as a time-base for the DAC.

 

I started fishing around in data sheets for low-end DACs and was not able to find ANY that work that way. They all have their own crystal pins for a system clock that is independent from the source data timing, and internal phase shift mechanisms for synchronizing with the incoming data stream.

 

Even the least expensive external DACs I looked at like the Beredsford 7510 and the DacMagic and the HRT Music Streamer II+...the chips they use all have their own timebase and automagically sync up with the incoming datastream.

 

Am I missing an important point here in how these chips work, or is the jitter concern something from a bygone era of very early (like pre-2000) DAC units?

 

thanks!

 

[skyline]

I don't want to confuse you, but there's a huge difference between optical out on my macbook vs Halide Bridge (usb to spdif converter) on the Chord dac I'm using. Seems as though the Chord, even with its claimed jitter rejection, is unable to handle the jitter on the toslink connection without sound degradation.

 

I also tried USB on the Chord, but it's not async and I only had a cheap cable. I very much prefer the sound from the Halide.

 

[Jeff In San Diego]

Looks like a very fine DAC unit.

 

My suspicion just based on this casual reading of their website:

 

"Digital Receiver Chip

The receiver chip takes the SPDIF or AES/EBU data and generates clocks and data in a form that the filter can accept. The new chip has two major benefits - all digital data extraction and a RAM buffer (a RAM buffer sequentially takes in all the data, re-times, it then sends it out). The all-digital extraction is error tolerant - it can accept multiple edges, which often happens in noisy environments, without generating errors. The RAM buffer allows a jitter free local clock operation without needing to send back a clock signal to the data source."

 

Could be that this rather unique clocking methodology makes it into a bit of a Ferrari -- excellent sound but maybe more picky about the limits it will put up with on its input signal. If within the limits, rock solid -- but can't deal with as broad of a range of input quality as a simpler unit.

 

Obviously this is just guesswork.

 

 

[Talos2000]

Just in case anyone is interested, I now have my Classé CP-800 up and running and connected to my MacBook Pro running Windows 7 (64-bit). The CP-800 connects as a USB Loudspeaker, and the key to getting audiophile quality output was - for me at any rate - using the "WASAPI - Event Style" protocol. This protocol streams the digital data via a direct link between the player and the USB port, and has an "exclusive mode" where no other application on the computer can use it. If, for example, I open a web page with a Flash video while I'm playing music, its sound is directed to the PC's internal speaker. WASAPI is Windows-7 only. With Windows-XP you would need to use ASIO, and I have been warned that it is more fiddly to get right. "WASAPI -Event Style" worked straight out of the box. I am told that MacOS does all this stuff natively, but I can't find any Mac media server software that meets my needs (iTunes doesn't).

 

This necessitated a slight change of plans, and I changed from SongBird to J. River Media Center, which really works a treat for me. In order for everything to work, I had to use a setting identified as "present 16-bit data in 24-bit format", but J. River was able to recognize that and do it automatically. I am now getting fantastic sound using a Classe CA-2300 power amp and B&W802d speakers.

 

[bdiament]

Hi phillipo8,

 

Your MacBook Pro also has a Firewire port. Some folks, myself included, feel this is currently the best sounding way to transfer digital audio from a computer to a DAC.

 

If you're interested, I would suggest checking out a Metric Halo ULN-2. (If the budget allows, an LIO-8 is even better but the ULN-2 can hold its own against most other DACs in my experience. The only caveat is that there is a learning curve involved due to the many capabilities of this device - a DAC being only one of them.)

 

Hope this helps.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

[cyberzent]

I have Berkeley dac and was using the optical output on a 2010 Mac Mini. Then I bought the Weiss Int 202 and connected with a firewire from the Mini too the Weiss and from there I use a AES XLR into the Berkeley dac, the result was jaw breaking. I found it hard to believe that by only doing this can have this wonderful effect on the music.

My setup from the Berkeley dac is to a Moon Amp and then the signal is feed into Marten Bird speakers.