Rpi4 playback DSD files

[DuckToller]

49 minutes ago, nikolaos1969 said:

Well apart from RPi4, 2 GB I have ordered the hat hifiberry DIGI+PRO https://www.hifiberry.com/shop/boards/hifiberry-digi-pro/

in order to transport  with a minimum of electric noise to my amp. The problem is that optical and coaxial inputs does not support DSD. Only USB input of RPi4 support DSD. If I use USB input how to deal with electric noise?

Salut @nikolaos1969,

if I understand correctly. the limiting factor is the digital input for the DAC in your Amplifier: Cambrtidge writes: "TOSLINK optical: 16/24bit 32-96kHz PCM only, S/PDIF coaxial: 16/24bit 32-192kHz PCM only, USB: audio profile 1.0/2.0 (default 2.0), up to 32bit 384kHz PCM, up to DSD256 or DoP256, ".
Which means that you either need a Source/Streamer that puts out over usb or bypass your internal DAC using DSD capable, external DAC that puts analogue out to your amp. However, doesn't look like that this describes your primarily idea.
In my view, an ALLO USBbridge Sig might fit your use case ?? As it is more xpensive than the standard RPI, you  may need to answer to yourself, how many DSD files you have/will have for listening to and if your  additional investment would relate well to the usage & pleasure of listening to DSD instead 32/192 ???
Best, Tom

[DuckToller]

Hi,

I understand your concern, as much as I know, the ALLO products can be ordered together ,or one after one and put together .
If you start with the USBbridge and you are satisfied with the sq, using the standard power plug, you solved you problem for a minimum of cost. 😉
https://allo.com/sparky/usbridge-signature-pcb.html#features 
f you feel the need to enhance the USB transport of non-DSD files with COAX, you can add the DIGIONE, and even top it with the ultra low power supply Shanti. A reasonable path to find out, I would think. But it's your ears and your head ... 😉
Best, Tom

[DuckToller]

@stefano_mbp

afaik , input of the ESS DAC in the Cambridge is pcm only  over digital inputs others than USB
Best, Tom

[DuckToller]

6 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

Cannot use DoP?

HI,

according to specs from Cambridge, which says "TOSLINK optical: 16/24bit 32-96kHz PCM only, S/PDIF coaxial: 16/24bit 32-192kHz PCM only, USB: audio profile 1.0/2.0 (default 2.0), up to 32bit 384kHz PCM, up to DSD256 or DoP256, ", DOP is only noted for USB.
Do you use this amplifier and DOP64 over S/PDIF coaxial input? Or did you mean that you use the Digi+ for DOP to another DAC ?
Best, Tom

[DuckToller]

2 minutes ago, nikolaos1969 said:

Hi Tom, do you think that regarding DIGIONE I can operate two connections at the same time one for coaxial for FLAC and one for USB for DSD? But what about the noise that comes from RPi from the USB port?

This is a call for @ALLOaudio
You should contact them by mail or in their sponsored forum and verify how to use the bundle they offer and the software of choice for that specific case. (They offer moode, DietPi, volumio or max2play )
Best, Tom

[DuckToller]

49 minutes ago, nikolaos1969 said:

But what about the noise that comes from RPi from the USB port?

Imho, you should listen to the USBbridge output first  (as you anyway need it for DSD) and decide afterwards if you feel/hear/think that it is good enough for your ears or too noisy and you want the DIGIONE for a perhaps lesser noisy transport.
Not sure it is that perceivable as I haven't tested the specific combination myself, although I feel that at this level of investment the choice of input  (USB vs. S/pdif)  is less a concern for SQ rather than a question of available connectivíty (i.e TV over toslink, BR over coax, Streamer over USB). ymmv

[DuckToller]

Guyz,

I suppose the whole thing looks sometimes a bit overcomplicated to newbies, especially when there are some language conversion issues added. A lot of information that Nikolaos has on his mind is unknownst to us , though we hope to get what he wants and feed him with correct information.
I have met this type of conversation several times with newbies in this forum, and think we - as the ones who have the knowledgebase - need to learn a bit how to handle the newbies and their ideas carefully. From my perspective: This is quite difficult, even for the very experienced ones.
Nikolaos, I have read, that you don't want to use a NAS as an extra entity in your system/network.
Question, can you connect an USB storage to your Router (the one that provides Wifi and Ethernet)?
Attaching storage (the USB disk) there will give you a NAS already. To handle it, you might need to save all downloaded DSD files there, fetch them via Volumio using Ethernet or WifI from the disk, and forward it to your DAC via the USB port of the RPi.
This works from my experience up to DSD256 also over Wi-Fi when I tested it, though I use Ethernet as a standard connection.
Volumio would do the same with your PCM files from that disk, putting them out as well over USB or via the Digi+ (you've mentioned) via COAX.

With both outputs, I would guess that it may get complicated, because it would mean, that you need either to configure the RPI for an automatic output change between the formats, or you need to configure that manually each time you change the format. In case you would experience the USB out as same/same or even better sq-wise than the Digi+, you could abandon this additional card. 
That said, you then have several ways to continue tweaking, however, the RPi is from price/performance ratio actually quite hard to beat. Everything "better" and more comfortable usually comes at some additional cost and some personal investment.

As a starting point you can't do anything wrong with it. I would only go furtther after I'd have experienced some degraded sound quality with this set up. Or if I have enough money to spend to experience incremental upgrades, sometimes more, sometimes less.

The most important  step:
- Set it up and listen to it, don't worry about electrical noise or jitter while you get used to the software, the sound and your setup.
- Start making a plan how to upgrade after you a comfortable with the sound of your system and then only if you detect a problem, if the SQ is not good enough for your ears, or you have excess money to spend.
Personally, I feel that finding the correct software to be used comfortably with mobile phone, tablet or computer is more important for the overall experience than having the state of the art software, which you can't control via http interface. YMMV.

Last word: GUYZ , love your enthusiasm ... pls understand my words as personal reflection and not as personal critic! Thanks.

[DuckToller]

2 minutes ago, nikolaos1969 said:

What app do you use for volumio.

Nikolaos, thanks for the picture, 😉
Volumio would be used via http, which means you could use any browser  on the same network with the input volumio.local in the browser address line, alternatively the volumio IP-Address xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx in the specific network. You can use the browser interface for configuration and for standard usage. Works with any device in your network (Phone/Tablet/PC).

If you want to use an app, Bubble UPNP may be the one of choice, if you laptop is on, you could use this as storage device via wifi/ethernet. It is helpful to read a bit about UPNP, for example

not fully new, but very good for the basis

you need to understand some of the terms: Renderer, Control point, NAS, Media Server:

NAS: any storage in the network, which can be accessed via IP connection, best 24/7.  Your USB hard disk, network enabled
Control point: any device capable of HTTP based control in the IP network. Your phone/tablet via http/browser
Media server: Holds the media software, can hold the storage, can be control point , too. Your RPi with Volumio
Media Renderer: Device that puts out the signal out to your chain, in your case it would be your RPi  with Volumio(in case of picture, this could be a TV)

Hope thats helps a bit, Tom
 

[DuckToller]

1 hour ago, nikolaos1969 said:

my experience from rpi4 as a streamer with volumio software is that definitely there is a noise "tsik" coming from speakers playback either FLAC or DSD files compare to USB cable from laptop to amp using foobar2000 or Jriver. Then the first question is that if rpi4 produces jitter adding extra devices, linear power supply, usb isolator e.t.c. will absorb the noice? Is it worth to invest in extra devices to clear the noice or purchase a different streamer. Mounting external disc HDD to volumio sometimes there is a delay - 500 GB - but I do not know if that delay comes from rpi4 or volumio. If I use DLNA/windows media server there is no delay but then a few songs does not appear -DLNA/windows is not very stable-. So, I decided to set up a synology NAS DS 118.

Hi niko,.
I remember having a hiss plus some RFI in the tweeter using the RPI3b with KHADAS DAC last sommer (unsing a CLASS D amplifier and sdome active A/B  drivem speakers).
I encountered some noise problems not only with RPI and  identified/solved these problems like this:
1.) The mouse attached to my 2nd streamer (that was connected to the preamp) as well which audibly forwarded RFI. I disconnected it.
2.) The old screen I use from time to time when the headless connect does not work. 
3.).I disconnected the my Uptone Regen from  that 2nd streamer (inl. meanwell PU and curious cable)
4.) I exchanged the USB cable (used an older QED instead of Supra Cable)
5.) For the RPI 3b,  I changed to an iFi power plug, which solved the most audible artefacts in the active speakers.

HINT:  For the RPi I had WiFi disabled and were using only ethernet connection to Router/NAS or Online Streaming by Qobuz and a 128GB usb stick.
If you use online streaming like Tidal or Qobuz, you can verify if your noise problem can be limited to the use of USB sourced playing. That info may be sufficient for your future NAS decision.
For future post: Please let the people from which you expect answers now already at the start of the post how your config is set up (and afterwards what you changed), just  to avoid unnecessary questions like: Do you use WiFi ? Which DLNA server from which unit  ??  ... 
 
Personally, I had decided last summer to use PiCore Player software with my RPi3b which allowed me to play DSD256 over ethernet and USB.  You can find the set up description in the Summerbreeze artcile:

cheers, Tom

[DuckToller]

43 minutes ago, nikolaos1969 said:

@DuckTollerthanks Tom, I playback music files on volumio either spotify or FLAC, DSD via ethernet. I will consider to use other software to rpi4. Did you find NAS better in terms of speed than external discs HDD attached to computer ? Which NAS has the most friendly software management system?

wish u better music days...and nights

Did you disable Wifi on The RPI ? Which HD do you have in use ?
For NAS, imho, software interfaces are always question of personal preference. Doesn't help a lot, I know ...
I had run a poll some month ago, looks like here Synolgy and QNAP are the preferred solutions, at Facebook, nearly 20 % were using MyCloud from WD. Hope that helps:
And for myself, I preferred my local USB stick to the UPnP/DLNA, especially with bigger files/DSD, though it was Scandfisk Ultra USB 3 Flash drive with up to 100 mbit/s.
- Your USB interface may be limited by the reading speed of your HD usb interface ?
- A limiting factor with the NAS could be the speed of your router ports.

- Even under Windows (from your Laptop) you may want to verify that you use minimum Fast Ethernet, better would be GigE.

[DuckToller]

2 minutes ago, nikolaos1969 said:

No, I have not, so I have to disable it with raspbian pi imager for windows - burn on the sd card along with volumio the raspbian pi imager-, on the internet I find different ways to disable it.

- you may disable WiFi software sided with Volumio. If using PiCoPlayer, you also do it via menu. Alternatively use Google for the best way to do via SSH.
- For windows you may want to test Universal media server - very easy to use ... though it uses Java 
- As a controller Bubble for android 
- Did I understand correctly: you do not play HD directly from the RPI USB port but over DLNA/UPnP from your notebook, which means you have the note book's USB port and the notebook's Ethernet port and ethernet in and out on your router and finally the ethernet port and the USB out of your RPI on the way before arriving at the USB in of your amplifier.
- If everything is perfectly configured, that should not cause problems ...
- You may want to test if the same file from the internal SSD loads more quickly via DLNA than from the external disk... just for identifying bottlenecks ...
- or using the same file from an USB stick with the RPi ... in order to get some more precise pictures of your personal preferences
I do usually prefer the shortest signal path, also for digital files, but as I said that's a personal preference ... nowadays with high res streaming ...

[DuckToller]

1 minute ago, nikolaos1969 said:

Do I need to disable rpi4 wifi from volumio menu?

you can, to find out if it helps you with the noise, if nothing changes in your perception, just leave it on for comfort
usuall, afaik, under settings / network