When do measurements correlate with subjective impressions

[Shimei]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

Ever been to a concert with an electric guitarist who moves about the stage with microphone? If you sit close up, the sound appears to come directly from the mouth and guitar. Yet the guitar amp and mic amp remain in a fixed position on stage. Soundstage is truly an illusion!

 

Likewise, has anyone ever sat above a dozen violins on the balcony of an indoor concerto? No electronics, that is, no speakers etc. Just percussion, horns, stringed instruments and pure vocals. Or an Opera where the singer turns and faces another direction? 

 

Has anyone ever heard a man made system that could reproduce the reality of that kinda soundstage? The "all that exists here now" or "is" in the moment? Has any technology "achieved" or "surpassed" that kinda standard?

 

Are we living in the Matrix? 🤣

 

In all seriousness, doesn't the reference or standard bearer become the very source in which everything else is measured? If so, then very observer/listener themselves may become subject to distortion or not perfectly "reflecting" back the source. 

[Shimei]

47 minutes ago, Shimei said:

 

Likewise, has anyone ever sat above a dozen violins on the balcony of an indoor concerto? No electronics, that is, no speakers etc. Just percussion, horns, stringed instruments and pure vocals. Or an Opera where the singer turns and faces another direction? 

 

Has anyone ever heard a man made system that could reproduce the reality of that kinda soundstage? The "all that exists here now" or "is" in the moment? Has any technology "achieved" or "surpassed" that kinda standard?

 

Are we living in the Matrix? 🤣

 

In all seriousness, doesn't the reference or standard bearer become the very source in which everything else is measured? If so, then very observer/listener themselves may become subject to distortion or not perfectly "reflecting" back the source. 

 

Makes me wonder what we choose to reflect or not consciously or not. For example, in the above indoor concert is it even possible to measure "everything"? What does the "sound analyst" leave out or include? Whether deliberate [filter] or not out of intention pure or otherwise as well as possible laziness I'm just wondering if it is even fathomable to measure the above exampled sound stage? Does the armchair analyst behind the computer even have enough "processing" power to gather "all that there is" in data? Then there's the question as to whether anyone is even capable of interpreting such data in a timely fashion. I realize that we may focus in on a single point on the soundstage from a single point in observation but really, given that special place above on the balcony over a dozen violins is like watching the below analyst feeling around the elephant in the room. This is such a small example but even it is like the finite trying to measure the infinite. Lastly, I realize our sources may just be rather different. Someone used electric instruments for example in which they are fed into a single point. That'd be like hearing "a box" in which an entire opera stuck their heads into it and sang. Electronic instruments are rather humorous to me in a way [I do enjoy them]. Just thinking about the innovative person that slashed speakers in order to produce distortion while playing the electric guitar. Amazing that some attempt to play that back with the finest equipment. 

 

I think this all amazing. 

[Shimei]

5 hours ago, kumakuma said:

The idea that this mechanism relies on the brain evaluating the sound pressure to determine whether or not it is from a realistic source is preposterous.

 

Hi kumakuma, 

 

Question, hasn't it been a rather recent advancement in simple robotics to even take the baby steps of a human? I mean what we do [walk] without even thinking about requires massive processing from computers. Just commenting non competitively on the subject that the human body is a wonder. I mean I am not aware that there are enough computers networked or otherwise to equal one human mind nonetheless the entire audience enjoying the concert. Someone correct me if wrong? 

 

When I think about sitting down and listening to a real opera etc I cannot fathom the inner workings of mind and body nonetheless the stimulation that results from such source. That's one of the things that is fascinating to me. When something so beautiful as a melody draws a response from us then I have to acknowledge there is indeed a sense of "objectivity". LIkewise, when I think about the brain evaluating the sound in reality here and now when an angry drunk father shouts across the room or hearing one from a media track there is a response in the body that occurs in one instance and not another. Why? Once a bird even a human child learns the familiar voice outside the womb aren't tones etc interpreted or may they be mimicked in such a realistic way to substitute the reality for virtual reality? I think all this ties together because we can become so absorbed in artificial sources or environments that we actually lose touch with reality. Makes me wonder whether technologically we are still in an infant stage, that is, if measured by baby steps. 

 

I'll stop there, and hope you don't mind me sharing this as what you stated captivates. Am I mistaking your response? 

[Shimei]

2 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

My post was simply a rebuttal of Frank's claim but, on a note related to your post, I just started to listen to Bill Bryson's The Body while working out and I'm astounded by the complexity of the human body.

 

I too went through a time in my studies when I marveled. I'm sure others at the "sound" of Bryson's voice may respond with astonishment or other emotions especially if Bill sounds too much like a drunk father shouting........

 

j/king, 

William

[Shimei]

9 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

I'm only 3% of the way into the book so perhaps the whiskey hasn't reached his brain yet...

Speaking of the brain, no pun intended. Kinda fascinating when taking into account that the human mind is capable of "speech" without a larynx or mouth. Happy listening to that voice in your head during story time 🤣 I'd rather a controlled "phantom" voice in my head being guided by words in print than uncontrolled schizophrenia. 

[Shimei]

6 hours ago, Superdad said:

LOL. Just an hour ago I watched the series finale of the trippy show Mr. Robot. Others who saw it will recognize what you say is oddly on the nose. 

 

G'morning Superdad,

 

Haven't seen the show! I'll have to check it out. 

 

Speaking of noses, I am curious why we do not see our noses in our view while looking straight ahead with our eyes? Just wondering what the mind actually filters out or emphasizes when we first sit down and listen to music. Do we have to acclimate to the musical subject matter or deliberately focus on something in particular? I mean, I've listened to a song thousands of times in my youth but it wasn't until later until I "heard" the lyrics and the song turned awful. I remember the first time rap music came into focus in my life as I was an enthusiast back when. Then looking in the rear view mirror one day I could see the car seat in the back and my daughter whose head was bobbing to the beats as the rap artists was calling women hos and bitchs as he boasted about pimping and his cash, house, and cars.  No instrumentation could make up for the lyrics. Overall, the source material sounded terrible to me and that day my system lost its luster. 

 

Anyhoot, I get the feeling that a lot of people think my posts are off topic due to lack of response. 

 

Enjoy Superdad, 

William