DAC Output Voltage

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys, I get many DACs in for review every year and many have different output voltages. Some have 2Vrms, 4Vrms, 6Vrms, and I have one now with 7Vrms. 
 

I’m a fan of more voltage for sound quality reasons and I believe it’s necessary when using convolution filters. 
 

Question 1: Why are the voltages set at 2,4,6 etc...?

 

Question 2: Given how many DACs are driving amps directly now days, doesn’t it make sense to have higher output voltages?

 

Question 3: Is there a different option other than increased output voltage from the DAC?

 

Question 4: Is it true that a higher output voltage means more signal in the signal to noise ratio, thus can equate to better sound?

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

39 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Most current amplifier designs have far too much gain already, with many giving full output at less than a 1V RMS Input, so you will need to greatly attenuate their input level which would defeat any advantages.

 

Interesting. Perhaps my Constellation amplifiers are out of the ordinary?

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, dean70 said:

DACs have high output levels and amps too much gain. We need some standards for consumer audio  😗

My experience is just the opposite. I may be an outlier though. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 hours ago, mansr said:

I don't see the connection between digital filters and output voltage. That said, if the filter engine lowers the volume to give itself some headroom, this can of course be compensated with higher gain somewhere downstream.

 

Output voltage give me more volume. When engaging convolution filter there is often a severe volume decrease. If I play a classical recording with a DR score of 21, I frequently run out of volume on the very quiet sections of a track. When I have a DAC with an output voltage of 6 or 7, then I'm pretty good. But, it seems like DACs are still stuck in the old days of thinking they are only to convert D to A and output to a preamp. 

 

 

2 hours ago, mansr said:

As others have said, the proper input voltage to the amp depends on its gain and the sensitivity of the speakers. If you don't think it's loud enough even with the volume turned up to 11, increasing the voltage to the amp might be a solution. Of course, that will only help if the amp can handle it without clipping or some other evil. If not, you need a bigger amp.

 

Some preamps have far more output voltage than DACs. I believe my preamp has 19 volts out and mentioned earlier was one with 40. Seems like DACs should be closer to these higher voltages if they are meant to drive amps. 

 

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

14 minutes ago, mansr said:

Have you measured what voltage you're getting from your DAC and preamp?

I haven't, but I've tried this with multiple DACs. They all give me the same results. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

Do you have a multimeter?

 

Yes, I will test to see what's going on. 

 

 

52 minutes ago, Summit said:

to put in a bigger output stage cost more needs bigger PSU etc

 

Never a problem for HiFi manufacturers :~)

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 hours ago, phusis said:

@The Computer Audiophile/Chris

 

Do you still more or less exclusively use the DAC direct-to-poweramp approach, and if so does it still reign supreme over a separate hardware preamp to your ears? 

 

I use a combined DAC/preamp, and using convolution filters as well (which may have eaten roughly 6dB's of sensitivity) I am fortunate to have very high efficiency speakers and a DAC/preamp that never has me running out of volume capacity (nearing '75' out of 100 on the digital attenuator has the roof close to lifting).

 

Yes, I almost always go directly from DAC to amp. When I use DACs with great volume controls, a preamp only worsens the quality.

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 That's not always possible when you have several different sources, such as DTV audio, FM stereo, and even a RIAA Phono output 

Good ole FM stereo. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Paperman

Is this a compliment or insult?

[The Computer Audiophile]

13 minutes ago, 4est said:

best practice" is to use as little gain as possible throughout the chain.

Doesn’t that mean you signal to noise ratio is really off, meaning not much signal?

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, 4est said:

No, it means that you shouldn't keep amplifying and then reduce it later.

This area isn't in my wheelhouse, so excuse the dumb questions.

 

I don't see why reducing it late is an issue, if improving the signal to noise ratio early on is a good thing. Does amplifying it early on harm the sound quality?

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, mansr said:

Sometimes you should. As Chris says, starting out with a high SNR is a good thing. If you need to attenuate the signal later, the noise is attenuated along with it, maintaining the high SNR, provided the attenuator itself has lower self-noise.

This is how my Constellation amplifiers work. They have an input option that bypasses a gain stage in the amp. It works great when connected to a good preamp or DAC with a good output stage. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, 4est said:

Note it bypasses a gain stage, not adds another....

It bypasses because the signal upstream is strong enough. That seems to function the way mans is suggesting can be preferred.