Audiophiles giving too much credits on clock in network applications

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On 6/14/2019 at 12:59 PM, Windows X said:

 

With pleasure. Getting network switch will help a lot. I agree that industrial network switch can be improved and some audiophile mod or OEM one can help significantly. My point of this post is to explain that upgrading clock won't magically resolve every issues we have in network.

 

Regards,

Keetakawee

 

Actually if you get a 10Gbe industrial network switch you can’t easily improve on by an audiophile mod because it already has an improved “femtosecond” clock and a good power supply. It’s also been tested to hit thst 10Gbe eye plot —if that’s not good enough for you try hitting a 100Gbe eye 😉 Go SFP(+). The pro stuff is quite good, much better than a small audiophile company can do. 

[jabbr]

On 6/13/2019 at 9:09 AM, Rexp said:

Thanks, I'm suffering from network phobia, what minimum steps would you suggest to improve Tidal via wifi? 

 

Move to a rainforest? What else needs to be improved?

 

Seriously though Wi-Fi AC has great bandwidth, and get a NUC as an access point, and something like an iFi iDSD that’s got good input isolation.

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40 minutes ago, Windows X said:

And the clock itself is less important than circuit design and improvements to provide more linear bitstream from network.

Linear bitstream as measured by eye pattern? Agreed, the 10G specs says that indeed requires end to end testing to meet spec. 

 

Older stuff like 1g and 100m didn’t require end to end linearity

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5 hours ago, Windows X said:

 

Do you think streaming audio requires up to 10G? Well, maybe it's only me who has highend CD transport to compare with.

 

The point is that the 10Gbe Ethernet spec specifies an end to end jitter limit (as measured by an eye pattern) in order to meet the specification. This requires a really well made switch. When you use that same switch at 1G you get the benefits of it being really well made.

 

The lasers in a single mode SFP module are super high quality, such that the 10G bitstream can be sent very precisely kilometers over a fiberoptic cable. You use those same lasers when you are using the module at 1G in your home. Unbeatable precision. 

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1 minute ago, Windows X said:

 

Well, we used to think optical cable will sound a lot better than coaxial cable. We'll see in time. I'm also interested in testing SFP too. Already bought some stuff about it but don't have time to test with yet.

 

Regards,

Keetakawee

Fiber optic Ethernet is nothing like S/PDIF! Particularly the VSEL lasers and transducers are vastly better, but everything is different, particularly Ethernet is packet based, so, for example you could transmit an entire song during the silent moment between songs. The network doesn’t need to be active during playback. 

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28 minutes ago, Windows X said:

 

It's an analogy about people expecting new things to be better but we can't tell for sure until we try enough. Personally I have high hopes for 10G and researching on best 10G card for server at the moment to use with 10G switch I bought last year.

 

My listening comparisons have not shown what I consider a definitive difference between the Intel x520 vs very low latency Solarflare 7322F vs Mellanox Connectx-4 (100 Gbe) ... but that’s just me

 

there seem to be some crazy Solarflare bargains on eBay these days. 

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32 minutes ago, Windows X said:

How's the difference between 10-100Gbe against audiophile 1G switch? Since this thread is on active now, I'd like to share more insights about network switch modding that may not done right.

 

I agree with your premise that mods not done correctly are likely to be worse. I also agree that we need to look at end to end performance rather that individual mods.

 

The reason I’ve heard to make audiophile mods to switches is to improve the power supply and clock. Both go hand in hand at reducing jitter. I won’t comment on whether reducing jitter in an Ethernet switch will improve SQ, lets take end to end jitter/phase noise as a parameter to be improved.

 

In the ancient days of 10Mb / 100 Mb and even 1Gb Ethernet, there wasn’t an end to end jitter standard — so circa 2002 when the 10Gbe standards came out, it was recognized that end-to-end jitter was important and these standards mandate minimum standards as measured in the eye pattern. 

 

This standard is already very very tight and because even tighter for 100Gbe such that only a handful of companies produce ASICS that can handle 100Gbe and only a handle of QSFP28 transducers for 100GBe ... and on and on to 200 and 400Gbe. 

 

So so what I am saying is that professional equipment from reputable companies has already been designed and tested to have extremely low jitter. 

 

I am not looking for an Ethernet switch to impart a SQ on my audio system, rather to provide clean, high quality bits (and not inject noise)