Annoying Yiggy Issue

[PeterSt]

Someone here just fails as a reviewer. That's all.

[PeterSt]

46 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

Measurements would support someone who has purely mechanical approach to things or life itself

 

Measurements take care of distortion being out of the way where distortion should not be. This is from the other thread I indirectly talked about the same:

 

Measurement is also about measuring THD of a 19Hz tone which should be inaudible because we human can not hear a frequency of 20Hz and lower. THD measurement can show the level of distortion. Now, coincidentally measuring a speaker for this sub-low output without audible distortion can be done by listening. It is a rare exception and it very convenient for understanding in general. So say that 

a. THD measurement shows 4% (of which we know it is audible and thus is regarded to be too much in the first place);

b. The 19Hz output is audible and thus shows 38Hz (2nd harmonic) or 57Hz (3rd).

 

Do you really think it helps to leave out #a hence don't measure or don't read the THD specs and think #b will be inaudible because of that ?

Unless you like distortion of course.

 

On a side note and FYI I was the one who measured the chip used in that Eggy 2 years before Schiit started to provide it per means of that DAC. It showed a THD (1000Hz) which was twice as bad (6dB) as it should be. Of course people claimed that the particular anomaly was for sure inaudible. Sure. Odd then that its special sound was a bit too special to some's liking and that the THD could be pointed out easily.

For those who were there: I don't think I provided my own THD measurements regarding this, because the glitching in order could be shown from the Yggdrasil the very same as my own scope output from the chip, which I *did* show.

 

Maybe it also tells something that some stupid like me designs around the chip in question, to 2 years later give up on the by then ready hardware. I suppose I could have sold it to you for a nice price ? (I still have the prototype DAC of it).

 

I hope this was a real life answer. Quite organic - both feet on the ground as well.

 

Things first have to measure well. If measurements are OK but next it doesn't sound well, then a. something is wrong with the measurements but b. then it fails and bad luck (this latter I never experienced, but alas).

If things measure poorly (which relates to references or (your own) standards), and next we'd claim it sounds well, we are just stupid. And that was the Yggy story. All it did was encouraging for responses like yours. They don't help a single soul, apart from maybe American chauvinism. And then ... in the end it was all about that. Can happen today too. No big deal. The French are better at "chauvinism" anyway. Haha.

But that doesn't make measurement unjustified.

 

[PeterSt]

3 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

I live cold part of the year in India for years. This place would be considered as extremely "noisy" and even "distorted"

 

I understand. But wouldn't it be even nicer for you if India was colder throughout the year ?

(with less sand dust on top of it )

 

In other words, what we should not forget is that there is a best of both or all worlds with net even better result: even less distortion by measurement and that unequivocally sounding better than with the distortion (and subjective ideas about SQ, but alas).

 

This is how I said in my previous post that I personally never rain into any situation that something which measured for the better, sounded for the worse. And oh, that can be so all right, but then something else came into the equation. This is all very hard to explain or elaborate upon because so many variables exist.

Fact is that all is about our references. Fact is sadly also that when something measures at best we can (measurement equipment limitation), beyond that are worlds of better best and worse. All unseen by measurement. And who tells that any given reference (with that optimal measurement) is that "best" situation already ? I have the answer: it never is. There is always something to improve upon which measurement (that we now of) can't show any more.

So the subject of the past few posts is about the other way around: when things measure worse, it is readily audible as sounding worse (or something not right, etc.).

 

Please be aware of the context, which is comparing with real life instruments. This is not subjective to "I like more bass better" etc. - only to our experience with the instrument in question. If I have a piano in the room, the piano through the speaker must sound the same (disregarding the piano builder/brand of course). If the piano sounds "nicely vibrant" it may be sounding nice to you and you possibly could like it for ever, but it is not how a piano should sound. The real art of this hobby (and manufacturer within that) of course is how to *and* make the piano sounding right *and* the drums *and* the copper instruments *and* the voices ... etc. I mean, it is so very easy to have a trumpet sounding screaming right, while Mark Knopfler screams to you as well.

Although I never heard it, it was told that the Yggy has/had a vibrant sound. This is a flavor. And flavors are never good to have in music reproduction.

[PeterSt]

Always when that eggy comes about, things get steaming hot. 

[PeterSt]

3 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

What amazes me though, why people who prefer some other product or design philosophy are taking a kind of personal vendetta against this or that piece of equipment, or software, or whatever else. 

 

In general ? yes. But I suppose this is a bit culture related. It can also be called "protective". But if you were there during this larger thread about the Yggdrasil, if did not go that way at all. Instead Mani just asked a question about that DAC, actually about its unique sound which seemed not right to him, next people started to rant against him because that could not be (obviously those people where from the USA, Schiits home land) and when Mani found those measurements it now definitely 100% fir sure could not be wrong, because what was shown - again most defintely - could not be audible.

Then a kind of hell broke loose, where our gmgraves took the lead in stating that Mani head to have too much of golden ears etc. etc. and our Schiit heads where jumping on him all over too. But it did not work really well for them because, say, I was there too and I knew about the chip. Obviously Mani and me worked together now, Mani receiving a lot of money from me or whatever. But it was all in people's minds because nothing of the kind was going on, especially not because my measurements were from two years earlier already.

So it is all the other way around, and it is a bit sad to see that gmgraves doesn't even give in really while he was the biggest stoker at the time.

 

Posts like this one keep on recurring and in aftermath it seems the hottest subject next to MQA, here on A/S. This is about the UNjustice done.

Also easy to see how Mani easily gets angry to everybody even slightly twisting the subject against him or his findings of back then.

 

The vendetta thing could have grown from accidentally me (Phasure) again being the provider of Mani's DAC and a few more things, but this is just a coincidence. That I wanted to use the chip of concern is also sheer coincidence with the sour thing of that just failed because of the very same poor measurement everybody rejected (hey, you did so too in this very thread - indirectly of course). Nobody even knew I was working with that chip as I kept it a secret (until I quit the project and just never told about it).

As a matter of fact for me it was fun to be of help when Mani wondered what could be wrong with the Yggdrasil. How could he know that. Also, how could I know that this chip was used in there. But I found out.

 

Vendettas often are in peoples minds. Nice for movies.

But by now it starts to emerge for real. As in "see, I was right all the time". A personal thing.

I ? I don't care. Well, maybe, because if a customer buys an other DAC which replaces ours, I am involved of course. And someone like Mani some times do that and try. And then of course it is nice to have the conformation that the trial did not work out and you still "have the best".

 

If you look closely you can lose friends by it. One Phasure customer (somehow we are all friends) *did* get himself the Yggdrasil. If you'd know his handle and see Mani talk to him and know about this, you can see the snarking. OK, you won't but I do. Mani is a kind of pissed that it could happen (wrong decision to is mind) and I am only a bit sad and never spent a word about it.

I suppose the whole subject is more loaded than people can see. It will also be more loaded than gmgraves will realize. But he must understand that he is the upside down vendetta guy. And the fact that I referred to a "reviewer" is even more loaded than much loaded.

 

Many things going on some times, invisible to the unknown.

Btw, this should be off topic.

 

Peter