Measurements & Sound Quality

[Ryan Berry]

Good topic.  While we can measure signals extremely accurately, how that translates to how the unit is going to sound is often not as straightforward.  It gets really complicated when you run into places where the "less perfect" measurement is what sounds better to everyone that's heard the unit - which tends to happen quite a bit.  All of a sudden, shopping by specifications in a magazine ends up being relatively meaningless, which is only frustrating to most people.  Being able to eliminate potential candidates before going through the effort of listening to them certainly has it's draw, but I think that people end up missing out on some of the best sounding products on the market shopping for specs like that.

[Ryan Berry]

20 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Since people do tend to latch on to certain patterns as being "right," is the fault in the better-measuring unit, or in the people who haven't listened to better measuring units enough, so that the "right" pattern doesn't correspond to the "accurate" one?  Or are the measurements not those that correspond to what most people match to the pattern that says "real"?

 

Is a puzzlement.

 

It's a good question and not one easily answered, I think.  For me, it comes down to a bit of both, really.  There's some elements that are "impure" that people associate with good-sounding music that can give an product that doesn't look as good on paper an edge: the pops of the needle as it moves through the groove on a record, that "musical" sound of your favorite amp that ends up being distortion, etc.  But then there's also a point where designing something to be as measurement-perfect as you can make it turns out being something that just isn't pleasant to listen to, no matter how long you try and live with it.  Having taken more than a few R&D units home to try and live with a potential product for a few weeks that looked great in measurements, I'm convinced there's just some things that there's no getting used to. 

Often, it just doesn't sound natural.  Sessions are often cut short with you feeling exhausted after spending any decent amount of time listening to it, whereas something tuned to sound as good as possible with the measurements being secondary (not ignored!) winds up with wanting to spend hours playing music.  Occasionally, they both line up and you have something that sounds AND measures good, which further confuses matters.  I can only speak from our experience, but I doubt that we're unique in experiencing this.  It makes high-end an interesting market.  People love to shop online any more, but it really takes going into a shop and comparing different products to really know you're making the right call.  The gear isn't cheap, for the most part, so I think we owe it to ourselves to do more than compare some numbers on a spec sheet and call it good enough.

[Ryan Berry]

9 hours ago, esldude said:

For most gear you really don't need to go into a shop.  That is why there are so few shops.  If the gear is clean and genuinely of high fidelity to the input.  You don't need to hear it. 

 

(exceptions are transducers.  On the replay end of it speakers.  You do need to hear speakers.)

 

I'd obviously tend to disagree here.  Especially when we're involved in a hobby that gets down to using material A vs. material B for shelves and components, whether cables need to be elevated off the ground, whether speakers need spikes, etc. to achieve the best sound quality.  We tweak our systems constantly to get that (what we perceive) 1% better sound.  So the idea of not comparatively listening to the different pieces available seems a bit ludicrous to me, especially considering how the closer to the source you go, the bigger the effect tends to be on the overall sound of the system. 

The reason there's so few shops, in my opinion, is because it's a very specific market.  Similar to the reason we don't have nearly as many camera shops as we once had, convenience has supplanted quality for the general public when it comes to audio.  It's more convenient to shop online than it is to go into a store and deal with a salesperson, so most consumers will gladly give up quality for ease of completing a transaction.

[Ryan Berry]

4 hours ago, esldude said:

So will the dealer have your shelving material, and cable elevators, and spikes and speakers you have?  And if you are comparing two components suppose the shelving material perfect for component A is the wrong one for component B.  I don't see how this makes any sense.  If it all is so touchy and easily effected a dealer is even less useful.  You'll have to buy something and see what you can make of it to know. 

 

Consumers have always valued ease of transactions and use.  That is why LPs sold in the millions and RTR tape in the thousands only.  RTR was the higher fidelity medium, but LP was cheap and convenient. 

 

Usually not, but a good number of dealers will let you demo a unit in your system, so you can get a real idea of what a few units will sound like in how you have your area set up.  That's essentially a non-option shopping online, even with satisfaction guarantee programs.  Demoing even a few units in your home will always be better than buying a product for its sound based on what its specs read on paper.  A lot of the dealers have been in this industry for quite a long tome as well, so they can help set up your room to sound its best.  Buying online won't get you that...but it is quick.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's the only way to get into high end.  We offer online sales for some of our products because we know there's people that just don't want to go into a store or don't live near one, but buying high-end components online is much like buying a car online -- you're really just taking a blind shot and hoping the reviews are right, because you're going to convince yourself you made the right choice either way.

[Ryan Berry]

4 hours ago, Jud said:

 

Online's often cheaper too, and consumers have certainly always valued that  (sometimes to their detriment, but then some brick and mortar dealer experiences can be detrimental as well).

 

In ways yes.  In other ways it's not.  It depends on how the manufacturer structures the way they sell.  Cutting out the dealer lets the manufacturer make a bigger profit in a lot of cases, instead of actually driving the cost down to the consumer.