SOTM, RENDU, AUDIO-LINUX, DIY, DOES IT REALLY MATTER??

[davide256]

2 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

 

 

nice system...i like NAD and B&W 805's(smile).

 

Yes, i am going to give the audio-linux a "GO". 

 

Its worth trying. It can't make the hardware better  but it seems to eliminate some OS/software caused harmonic defects. One of my favorite "bad' recordings

is the original "Pirates of the Caribbean" sound track. It can sound pretty raw even with Roon servers DSP to reduce output by 3 db... quite a few tracks

reach max recorded level. Audiolinux/roonserver did a better job of resolving the harmonics at that recording level without the obnoxious artifacts  heard

using WIN 10/roon server. However it doesn't make cheap endpoint HW suddenly great.  Tried Audiolinux/RPI3 as Roon endpoint last night with 

DIgione coax and USB out using LPS 1.2, (Digione required iFi 5v on RPI to boot) - the microRendu remained better. I am curious though

about how a Celeron NUC running AL in RAM with good power supply would compare... possible that might be the hardware crossover point.

Loud complex passages are the point where my system currently struggles to sound like the original.

 

[davide256]

57 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

^^^ PS, in my thread, i don't care

 

Agreed, the streamer can't make hardware better....digital front end just trying to get the music bits to the dac to do the real magic with as little noise as possible....there shouldn't be ANY "OMG MASSIVE IMPROVEMENTS" here, and this is one area that should be OBJECTIVE....i undersand DAC and everything past will always be subjective, but we need to get the digital front end to a point where it is clearly OBJECTIVE only.

Curious... I equate objectivists to "filibuster" and "white paper legal tactics"... the "objective" I see is to impede discovery using dogma. Actual discovery requires diligent experimentation and an open mind. The objectivist credo is  more religion than science.

[davide256]

2 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

 

I see that point, but i also see subjecttist as ignorant at times, and unable to apply logic and heavily biased after the purchase.

I am not going to point my needle at 100% in either direction.

 

I guess I would say that I would buy into a subjective opinion, if there is logic behind "as to why" that i could accept in "my logic".

 

Right now, my understanding is that if there is a difference, it must be jitter, but if two kit's have same or comparable jitter, then where is the logic that they can sound different, if all there is, is music and jitter in the digital front end.  For there to be ANY difference, there HAS to be something that is measurable that is different, that I am solid on.

One of the reasons I stopped reading Audiogon was the other extreme, the "pointy hat" crowd.

Disagree on "measurable"... that means you have made the "assume" mistake, that you already know root cause. Anyone doing research better have a good chain of

root cause research before they claim they know how to measure.

 

Observable, repeatable, and verifiable comes first. In discovery you often have to build new measurement tools because the old ones don't apply.

[davide256]

51 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

i agree with "verifiable", not observation, because observations are frequently wrong and personal....i don't think you need human measurements to be verifiable, but would like to see at least repeatable 80%+ consensus to even consider verifiable....and i am not even talking consensus as to which is better, just a noted difference, and in a professional environment...not chit-chat.

An evaluation of audio gear not based on competent human evaluator is inherently flawed... our measurement tools can't predict observable differences

other than at the most basic level of audio performance.The difficulty is identifying the skill level of the human evaluator and their strengths and weaknesses.

I try to keep track of different reviewers, their strengths and biases. In general when I see 2 known good reviewers praising a piece of gear at the level

I'm interested in, it starts to get my attention, if 3 then it becomes a must to audition.

 

 

https://www.dailyaudiophile.com/

 

[davide256]

17 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

I don't trust reviewers.  They are paid and rarely will give a negative review (except for maybe big box that don't give incentives like boutique shops).  I have even spoken to retired reviewers that suggested they are "FREE AT LAST" to give honest opinions.  Besides reviewers like different things...

 

If there are not APPARENT improvements in a comparison test without needing a DBT, it probably isn't worth buying  imho.

 

If there are 2 or move positive professional reviews, there are likely incentives given to 2 or more reviewers.

 

I agree you have to start somewhere to make your short lists, but I don't feel it is necessary on digital front ends.  I would start with reviews that know and understand measurements and use them in their reviews and aren't paid or incentivized by mfr...problem is even if they are, they will try to hide it.  They all have relationships in one way or another.

useful reviewers compare and contrast to other gear, constrained reviewers don't. We all have relationships... only a minority are dishonest.

 

 

[davide256]

BTW, I pulled ISO Regen out of the chain last night, normally its the sort of change where I wince and put it back in. Trying to sort out +/- now,  amazed the Audiolinux on a generic PC server makes such a difference even without running in RAM. Getting a NUC so I can run server in RAM is my next goal.

[davide256]

42 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

can you clarify these statements?

1. are you saying you don't hear much of change without the ISO regen since you switched to AL?

2.  What generic pc are you using?  I am going to try AL on an asus vivo vm60....i am not sure that there should be any differnce what soever based on your pc hardware?

1) I'm saying that with AL and Roonserver the difference between w/wo ISO Regen is not so clear... I need to play around with power supply isolation to see if the ISO Regen is going to stay.

2) PC is an older MOBO, ASRock 960GM/U3S3 FX, AMD 8350 processor with 8gb RAM... maybe equivalent to an I3 today  but lacking  newer HW support. If your BIOS supports UEFI, you can do better,  run AL in RAM, I can't. Processor speed matters for DSP use, library size. I'd like to get an i5 NUC just to be safe.

[davide256]

ISO Regen is out, it didn't really help with AL server in use, even with best possible ISO Regen setup.

[davide256]

3 hours ago, smodtactical said:

 

Seems like your chain is already super optimized so ISO regen with lps just couldn't squeeze out any more SQ.

 

Did you notice a gain in quality with microrendu and your AL server vs just using usb into a dac ?

USB out from my PC has always been bad, AL didn't change that. If it wasn't an ATX power supply, possible the outcome could have differed.

[davide256]

Discovered that for $89 I can upgrade my PC server to 16gb, RAM should arrive today allowing me to boot AL/LXQT to RAM. Sadly the NUC7CJYH   Celeron NUC is out of stock

everywhere, I really want to get my hands on one and compare it as AL endpoint to microRendu.

[davide256]

RAM arrived, no issues with getting LXQT version 2.1 loaded into RAM on my PC server.

 

Difference between running LXQT off   RAM (vs SSD) was subtle, music seemed softer in intensity, a little easier to relax and get into.

Did some swapping around between endpoints, microRendu and RPI3 with AL, big difference in dynamics in favor of the RPI. Went

back to WIN 10/Roonserver with microRendu, dynamics  were fine with this combination but loss of harmonic purity compared

to AL Roonserver was  frustrating.

Beginning to think Sonicorbiter SW has some weaknesses/incompatibility with AL source, hard to believe the mR HW is at fault.

Had to pull the RPI3 out and go back to microRendu because I could hear stuttering with high res music.

[davide256]

10 hours ago, esldude said:

5G is just so passe'.  

 

I say wait for 6G.  It will happen.

https://www.cablefree.net/wireless-technology/4g-lte-beyond-5g-roadmap-6g-beyond/

 

Travel weary data will be fixed once and for all.

 

 

 

was reviewing how to do something like this a few years ago for a major carrier. Don't expect miracles. Requires more antenna footprint/less coverage reach so the economics

will limit it to population dense area or existing highway antenna locations covering service areas. Biggest headache is building facility entrance rights/lease as this will be roof

based antenna vs established/regulated basement entrance facilities.