Innuos MKII - USB Skipping with Roon

[FrankMA]

New owner of a MKII. Running MKII>Phasure Lush>PS Direcstream Jr

 

Been running since last Fri. Started out playing some songs via USB and once Roon Radio kicked in the songs started skipping (no output, jumps from song to song at .5 sec intervals continuously).  Innuos support had this comment:

I believe this is an issue that's been encountered a couple of times, Roon does something wrong when its 'radio' feature kicks in, which is basically their autoplay function of similar/related music once you reach the end of the album you were listening. All reported instances of this have been solved by simply turning this feature off.

Shut off Roon Radio.  Go into either tracks/Album/Artist and shuffle: Same condition. Via Ethernet (Streamer port to my DAC or via network) in any mode I have no issues.

 

Have rebooted the MKII and my DAC numerous times. The only way to stop the USB skipping is to reboot the DAC.

 

When I go to bed it is running. When I wake up it's skipping. Same when I leave for work. Day after day. Consequently I cannot even burn in the unit via USB (my current preferred output). Has anyone seen this condition? If yes have you found a fix?

 

Thanks in advance

[FrankMA]

Really shocked with all the smart people on this board no one has heard of this or has any ideas

 

I am going to try to eliminate the USB cable as a source of the problem. Innuos suggests testing with a cheap USB printer cable and trying the data port

 

Ultimately, there is a break-up/disruption occurring in the USB connection. There are number of steps that can be taken in a process of elimination to identify the soruce, but the first thing i would suggest trying is a different USB lead. There's more than a few cables out there that can disrupt the 5v required to work properly, which especially becomes an issue over some longer cable lengths. 

You can also try connecting to the USB 3.0 'Backup' socket on the server, this will also work for audio and carries a higher miliamp output which might help

[FrankMA]

Thanks for the confirmation @mansr @Em2016 

 

Surprised about the Lush comment since so many using this server use it with success

 

What other cables are people with Innuos/PS Directstream DAC's having good luck with?

[FrankMA]

12 hours ago, austinpop said:

Is your music (Roon Storage location) local - ie on the Zenith, or on the network? If the latter, I’d reboot everything upstream to your ISP input. Your modem, router, and any switches in the path to the Zenith.

 

You may just have a bad cable. It does happen. 

 

My storage in on the Zenith.  Good suggestion on the rebooting of everything. Thought it wouldn't matter since it was just straight Zenith>USB>DAC

 

 

[FrankMA]

4 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Hi Frank 

 

Suggestion for trying to test whether it is Roon radio or not. 

 

Let's both disable radio and do our best to line up many long albums when we're not listening to music. That way we should be able to see if the music is still playing the next day or if skipping has kicked in. 

 

Should allow us to distinguish between it being a Radio issue or just an issue that kicks in after extended periods of playing. 

 

Will help with your burn in too. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

Will do Alan

 

I have tested USB with a cheap printer cable. No issues at all with Roon radio or Shuffle.

[FrankMA]

4 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

@FrankMA,

 

Also it's definitely Roon related because I've never experienced it using the Zeniths LMS player but frequently get it with Roon. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan

I also still need to test the LMS player with the Lush

 

[FrankMA]

Lush on the 2.0 dataport - no issues at all with Radio or Shuffle

 

I will disable Radio tonight and play 5-6 long albums via the 3.0 port

[FrankMA]

On 8/18/2018 at 3:57 AM, BigAlMc said:

 

Hi Frank 

 

Suggestion for trying to test whether it is Roon radio or not. 

 

Let's both disable radio and do our best to line up many long albums when we're not listening to music. That way we should be able to see if the music is still playing the next day or if skipping has kicked in. 

 

Should allow us to distinguish between it being a Radio issue or just an issue that kicks in after extended periods of playing. 

 

Will help with your burn in too. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

 

Hi Alan/All,

Via Lush USB DAC port - Added 5 albums to the queue last night with Radio off. All played through based on history and stopped. In the AM I turned Radio on and played a song to kick it off. Worked for about an hour before starting to skip repeatedly again

 

Again using the Backup USB port it works fine (I think that has 5v) but according to Innuos support this will not sound as good as the DAC port. Using a cheap printer cable works fine.

 

Should I be talking to Phasure to return this cable? And if yes how would I describe the issue?

[FrankMA]

14 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

 

I'm slightly confused by your description as you appear to be changing more than one factor at a time. 

 

Also, how do you tell from history whether the track skipped or played? 

 

Hi Alan,

I am just relaying all observations in addition to that test. 

 

The only condition where this happens is the MKII DAC USB output with the Lush.  Every other combination is fine

 

When it skips the track doesn't actually play or listed in the history. It cycles through songs at a very fast clip. So I am assuming since I see every song from the albums I played last night is in the history they probably played

[FrankMA]

This happens with Radio and Shuffle

[FrankMA]

1 hour ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Thanks Peter, 

 

No great rush for me but thanks. Let's see what Frank says. 

 

Out of interest any thoughts on why this skipping issue occurs with Roon but not with LMS on the same hardware? 

 

@FrankMA I appreciate you're desperate to get your new investment performing gloriously but meantime there is the other USB port workaround.

 

Also you should really give the LMS player a go as it just sounds better than Roon due to the playing from memory. @austinpop confirmed the same a while back. The UX isn't as good but the SQ is terrific.

 

Cheers, 

Alan

According to Innuos the data port is of inferior sound quality. But I have that an the LAN so I’m not dead in the water by any means. Of course I had to go buy a decent lan cable (wireworld). Didn’t have

[FrankMA]

1 hour ago, BigAlMc said:

Gents chill out. 

 

@mansr - Peter already offered Frank a refund so your hostile tone is neither warranted nor particularly welcome.

 

Let's try and keep it helpful to try and solve the Ops issue rather than turning it into another of 'those' threads. 

Thanks Al. Agree wholeheartedly

[FrankMA]

1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

 

Alan, officially we won't be able to make it for tomorrow. Maybe not even Tuesday, but that could maybe work. So you will have yours Wednesday or Thursday (1 day shipping). I don't know whether that is sufficiently OK for @FrankMA...

That would work for me as well

[FrankMA]

Sorry I am a burnt distracted from my post. At a Red Sox game and the wife cannot understand why i’m Worried about my music server ?

[FrankMA]

16 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

I thought it was a radio issue. 

 

@FrankMA have you had the skipping issue with the radio off? 

 

@PeterSt thanks for the quick response. I sold my ISO Regen but I get the same issue as Frank despite having a TX-USBultra in the path. Lush > TX-USBultra > Sablon > Directstream.

 

Frank - might be worth holding off to see if the Lush^2 resolves skipping on my system. Might also be worth trying other cables. You're in the US, right? 

 

I have a Curious and an Audioquest carbon kicking around. I could test them to try to prove/disprove the Lush culpability. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan

I did have the skipping with Radio off and in Shuffle mode

 

I don't have an ISO Regen to try at the moment

 

Maybe the Lush 2 will solve the issue. I am in the US

 

Thanks guys

 

 

[FrankMA]

1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

 

Frank, if I interpreted you correctly, you seem to say that when the skipping is in order, it is literally about skipping. Thus, that the tracks actually don't play at all, but skip through to a next track right away. And on and on and on (in shuffle mode).

 

a. I wonder whether this indeed is the case (so needs confirmation);

b. If so, I wonder whether e.g. Alan got it like that.

 

Hi Peter,

I'm 99% sure there is no output (I'll check again). Just song skipping. In Radio & Shuffle mode. 

 

[FrankMA]

1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

Can anyone determine what the common denominator is between Radio & Shuffle mode ? Possibly it is related to gapless or something. Or what about a variable which just overflows because of the longer term playback (I suppose Shuffle never stops, like Radio).

 

And/but, how does the quality of a USB cable relate to this ? ... weird thing.

Hi Peter,

No gapless (classical) songs in my test

 

No skipping in Radio or Shuffle with basic printer cable. Only Lush

[FrankMA]

3 minutes ago, rickca said:

Do either of you have another DAC, just for troubleshooting?  Does it only happen with the PS Audio DS Jr?

Unfortunately I don't have another DAC. I believe Al has the full DS (not Jr)

[FrankMA]

42 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

With the "gapless" I was referring to Radio being gapless always (but no idea how that would work out for mere technical merits we're discussing here) while Shuffle actually can not be gapless while Roon might try anyway (and then goes odd because something doesn't respond fast enough).

Sorry Peter - I misunderstood

 

I do have a Oppo BDP-105. I'll see if it has a USB B input and test

[FrankMA]

16 hours ago, FrankMA said:

I do have a Oppo BDP-105. I'll see if it has a USB B input and test

 

Tried but since the Oppo is not a Roon endpoint, It is not available in Roon as a zone (unless I am missing something)

[FrankMA]

On 8/21/2018 at 4:28 PM, BigAlMc said:

Faithfully still playing, 24 hour later. 

While waiting for this to resolve with the Lush, have been playing via LAN direct to the DAC with a Wireworld cable. No skipping but I am getting regular dropouts. 

 

Less reliable so far than my MAC over a spaghetti network of wires and switches......

[FrankMA]

Something new happened yesterday. I have been running via Ethernet while I wait for the Lush discussion to play itself out. 

 

Was streaming ok most of the day until the signal starting dropping out. Audio>Dropout>Audio>Dropout>etc

 

Had to reboot the DAC/MKII to fix

 

Has anyone experienced this? Could I have a lemon? This unit is far less reliable than my MAC

[FrankMA]

Hi Al - very true.  I am going to run the dropout issue by Innuos.

 

Not a problem.  Will sort itself out.  Thanks for your help

 

I know for sure I still have a problem with the Lush and skipping forcing me to use the Ethernet connection.

 

Not sure it could be the network/router since this is a direct connection to the DAC: MKII>Wireworld Ethernet>DAC 

[FrankMA]

On 9/2/2018 at 1:20 PM, BigAlMc said:

I'm not sure this will help much. In fact I'm fairly sure it won't! But wrt whether the Lush^2 stops the skipping. I've not had any skipping for the last three days with the Lush^2 in my system. But here's the spoiler. It hadn't skipped for the few days prior to my replacing the Lush with the Lush^2. So not exactly definitive.

 

Hi Alan

Been running the LMS/iPeng9 player combo via the Lush for 3 days with no skipping that I can tell. Really miss Roon although the LMS player does sound much better. Hopefully Innuos will get Roon to load into memory at playback.

 

Maybe Peter will jump in on whether I should try the Lush2

[FrankMA]

Hello @Cebolla  I have been playing with the LMS streamer (ipeng9) and have had no skipping issues MKII>Lush>PS Directstream Jr