Innuos MKII - USB Skipping with Roon

[PeterSt]

22 minutes ago, mansr said:

Which means it isn't a USB cable.

 

We all love you. Thanks.

[PeterSt]

@FrankMA, What you're experiencing there is 100% certainly a case of too much resistance over the end to end trajectory from sender to receiver (and back btw). Although I wouldn't care less about you returning the Lush because it does not work for you, I would care much more for a new one which 99% sure also won't work. Offering money back, also not a problem, but again it doesn't help you really.

 

I think if you look back on your trials, you can already see it is not 100% easy to blame the cable alone. Thus, it is the combination. This, btw, is not related to the specs of the cable but to how the bandwidth of the spec plays a role here and how many so-called on spec cables wouldn't work either. Easy for me to say and impossible for me to prove, but say that I tried a few, always requiring the more close to full bandwidth of the USB2 spec to begin with (because 32/768).

 

Your Lush has a length of 100cm. We provide them up to 300cm for a reason - indeed the (bandwidth of) the spec does not allow for more. So all clear there.

Problem is, nobody anywhere suffers from such a problem. No-where. Still the culprit is known - as I said, too much resistance.

 

If this doesn't happen in your target (say the DAC) then it is the source (like a PC). For the PC this is usually solvable by means of using an other USB port (I saw the reference to the high powered port but that is not helpful - I mean, the fact that it is powered is not).

Best option would be using a front port vs a back one, not knowing (or looking at) whether this is possible to begin with.

 

When the resistance is too high, eventually the back and forth "communication" for the speed control (how many USB packets must be sent per time unit) can't catch up and (it may be seen as) the buffer with data runs empty. This is also how it is data related and how your "radio" me show the exhibit, or, that just runs longer in a row than a CD (so to speak).

The less the resistance being too high, the linger it takes for the buffer runs empty (it is not really a buffer, which I of course must say with mansr around who really knows everything).

 

5 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

Any thoughts on what might be going on? Could the Lush be the source of the issue? 

 

It can be part of it, yes. But 50% chance you run into the same with other USB cables, as long as they are more expensive (really so).

Obviously, when I just said that no-body has such an issue, while now two occur with a same device, we must wonder.

 

Frank, if you return it, and you ask me to send you a new one, the least what will happen is that we make a Lush^2 of it. This is already for the bad luck of just ordering the Lush^1 because the Lush^2 did not exist yet. But I rather find the culprit, and having two examples at hand, this should be doable. Plus, as I understand, Alan could be very helpful because of him experiencing the same issue but just differently.

Start with other ports if possible ?

Do you have an Uptone Regen at hand ? (or an Intona) ... just for testing ...

 

Peter

 

 

 

[PeterSt]

12 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

where USB on Roon starts skipping tracks

 

Always "Radio" ?

[PeterSt]

3 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

Frank - might be worth holding off to see if the Lush^2 resolves skipping on my system.

 

Alan, officially we won't be able to make it for tomorrow. Maybe not even Tuesday, but that could maybe work. So you will have yours Wednesday or Thursday (1 day shipping). I don't know whether that is sufficiently OK for @FrankMA...

[PeterSt]

4 minutes ago, austinpop said:

This had completely slipped my mind, but I suddenly remembered a problem I had when I originally got my Zenith SE.

 

Thank you so much Rajiv.

 

@FrankMA, very good that you sent me that email. I had see the thread title all right, but never looked into it.

Now it's rolling, with the help of the others.

And no finger pointing here (I sincerely hope). Hopefully just solve it, yes. Is there hope with the Lush^2 ... not sure at all. To me it feels more robust for these matters, but technically (the resistance thing) it should not help. But Alan will be able to tell soon.

 

Peter

[PeterSt]

1 minute ago, BigAlMc said:

Out of interest any thoughts on why this skipping issue occurs with Roon but not with LMS on the same hardware? 

 

Might you use XXHighEnd then you would be able to make up the answer yourself - this can happen easily. But it is more complicated to explain and in any case this is why  asked "Radio only ?".

Radio (of Roon) will use a different USB buffer size. And if that is settable, the issue could maybe be solved with that. So say that the buffer length is small, then the communication over the required speed should ... I think always work out (I could have it the wrong way around). If the buffer is long, the speed corrections eventually may arrive too late, already because the buffer could be longer than half of what's possible.

LMS would just use an other buffer size.

 

Another option is that the whole processor is hogged (by Roon) and that the driver doesn't receive enough time slice to do its work. But this is more of a long shot.

[PeterSt]

2 minutes ago, mansr said:

Stop making excuses. Things stop working when he uses your cable. Ergo, your cable is broken. You've admitted that it isn't spec compliant, so it should be no surprise that it doesn't always work. Now do the right thing and give the man his money back.

 

What about you f*ck out of here and before you go, tell us what your actual problem is. I'll denote it off topic for you. Go troll elsewhere with your miserable attitude.

 

[PeterSt]

57 minutes ago, FrankMA said:

I did have the skipping with Radio off and in Shuffle mode

 

Frank, if I interpreted you correctly, you seem to say that when the skipping is in order, it is literally about skipping. Thus, that the tracks actually don't play at all, but skip through to a next track right away. And on and on and on (in shuffle mode).

 

a. I wonder whether this indeed is the case (so needs confirmation);

b. If so, I wonder whether e.g. Alan got it like that.

 

 

[PeterSt]

Quote

I'm 99% sure there is no output (I'll check again). Just song skipping. In Radio & Shuffle mode.

 

(text is inside the quote of my text in the previous post)

 

@BigAlMc, so Alan, is that what is happening to you too ?

 

Can anyone determine what the common denominator is between Radio & Shuffle mode ? Possibly it is related to gapless or something. Or what about a variable which just overflows because of the longer term playback (I suppose Shuffle never stops, like Radio).

 

And/but, how does the quality of a USB cable relate to this ? ... weird thing.

[PeterSt]

1 hour ago, FrankMA said:

No gapless (classical) songs in my test

 

Thank you, Frank.

With the "gapless" I was referring to Radio being gapless always (but no idea how that would work out for mere technical merits we're discussing here) while Shuffle actually can not be gapless while Roon might try anyway (and then goes odd because something doesn't respond fast enough).

 

And please, I am out of clues anyway, but it may give you or Alan ideas.

Better wait until Wednesday when Alan should have his Lush^2es. 

[PeterSt]

3 hours ago, FrankMA said:

Tried but

 

No worries. Lush^2es for Alan definitely go out today (due tomorrow).

[PeterSt]

@FrankMA, I see nothing that makes me think that should help. So a kind of formal response is : best to send back your Lush if it does not suit you.

Let's proceed by email.

 

Regards,

Peter