EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[ericuco]

8 minutes ago, lxgreen said:

Why can’t you use the EtherRegen optical out directly to the optical Rendu or optical port of the optical Signature RenduSE. Then no need for an optical module or FMC.

It is my understanding the the optical port is on the "dirty" side of the switch which would basically defeat the whole purpose of using the EtherRegen.

[ericuco]

6 minutes ago, thyname said:

 

Incorrect! There is no "dirty" or "clean" site, as long as you go input / output across 

Per Alex's first post in this thread:

 

"The goal of the unit is to provide full isolation (and very high-quality clocking) for one special "clean" port--to be the port that feeds your Ethernet-attached streamer/renderer/DAC device (be that something like a micro/ultraRendu, Aries, SOtM, Ethernet input DAC, or whatever Ethernet connection is most directly connected to your DAC)."

 

Did this change?

[ericuco]

21 minutes ago, DelsFan said:

Every time I ask about modems and routers I get the same answer:  Anything over the Ethernet is perfect, which modem and/or router, and/or combo unit I purchase won't (CAN'T) affect the sound quality coming out of my ($5000) streamer/DAC.  (And, an LPS for my modem and router shouldn't have any effect on sound quality either...)  And I guess Alex's thoughts about the Cisco switch he has been recommending, until the EtherREGEN is released, is just, what?, idiocy also?

 

People who visit here care so I'll be glad to hear about your experiences.  I just changed internet providers (fiber not available at my house), and I plan on purchasing a plain modem and (if I can find one) a stand-alone router.  From the router (sans Wi-Fi), I plan to go one direction to my (hardwired) desktop, wireless access point, and television (maybe), and the other direction to the EtherREGEN (A-side) and my Streamer (from the B-side). 

Is trying to keep as many things out of the chain between my modem and Streamer sensible/important/imperative, or does it really just not matter. 

Is looking for a "better" quality modem and router just folly? 

In forty years in the high-end audio hobby I've yet to find something that doesn't matter - maybe this is a first?

I think I understand:

An all-in-one modem/router will almost never sound as good as a good modem connected to a good router (which will then send information from TIDAL, to my Streamer).

I can't run my Ethernet cable from my modem directly to the EtherREGEN and on to my Streamer, I must have a router in-between.

Supposedly, powering my modem and router with a LPS rather than wall-warts is beneficial to sound quality???

If I can find a stand-alone router without Wi-Fi built in, I can place a WAP elsewhere, centrally located, in my house.

Other than logistics, if I must have a router before my EtherREGEN, and the router almost always has four outputs, in many cases will there be no reason to have to use the additional A-side outputs provided on the EtherREGEN?

 

For use with Comcast/Charter coax service, does anyone recommend a particular stand-alone modem and stand-alone router?  Or, will the EtherREGEN cover all sins, I should just buy any darn thing, don't worry about it?  I just don't understand why the EtherREGEN will make a difference, an LPS for the router and modem makes a difference, but what modem and router I purchase doesn't make a difference.  I'm sorry I'm old and not network savvy, but I am enthusiastic about this hobby.

 

One last question:

If I buy a separate modem and router, and the signal for my Streamer has to first pass through the router, should keeping the Wi-Fi electronics out of the router be beneficial?  Or, should I just buy a decent modem, buy a (better or best) router with Wi-Fi, and then forget about it?

 

For a stand-alone modem, I have previously used this modem when I had Comcast Xfinity ISP service:

 

https://www.amazon.com/ARRIS-SURFboard-SB6141-DOCSIS-Cable/dp/B00AJHDZSI

 

You can then connect it to the router (and WiFi hub) of your choice. In normal home networks, it is required that you have a router which assigns local IP addresses to your devices. I have been using Google WiFi mesh units as router and WiFi hub and remote access points but there are tons of similar devices from Ubiquiti, TP Links, etc.

 

I can’t imagine anything upstream of the EtherREGEN making much difference. For streaming service think about all of the network equipment the data flows through before arriving at your house.

[ericuco]

10 hours ago, EVOLVIST said:

 

But here you're just talking about streaming service, right? Because you wrote "anything upstream," so if I'm using the Comcast Router/Modem combo, placing the EtherREGEN between my router and my streamer/DAC should be what it's all about right? That should be where the sonic benefits happen, because you're cleaning up everything upstream from the DAC, yes? 

 

The EtherREGEN should most likely be placed just before your streamer/DAC regardless of how you are playing music (streaming, local files,, etc.) so data gets scrubbed by the EtherREGEN before hitting your streamer/DAC.

 

As a more home network note, your modem is the first piece of equipment connected from the outside line (probably coax cable), then the router. If you are using the box provided by your ISP, then the modem and router may be in same box. From your router, then you can do as you wish for the most part - Ethernet connection to your EtherREGEN, streamer, switches - the combinations are endless.

 

I have a fiber optic ISP so no router required. A Ethernet cable is the first connection which is connected to my Google Wifi router & WiFi hub. The Google Wifi hub connects (via WiFi) to another Google WiFi end point which is then connected to a switch. This switch serves as a distribution hub for my music server, Roku TV, NAS, and opticalRendu. For my setup the EtherREGEN could possibly replace the distribution switch (except for the fact it doesn't have the ports I need).

[ericuco]

1 hour ago, DelsFan said:

 

So, everything else in my dedicated Streaming system matters, quality of Streamer/DAC, Headphone Amp, Headphones...  As well as "better" analog and digital interconnects, power cords, lack of wall warts (usually), power conditioners, vibration isolation, etc...

 

I've been hearing this for two years now (and now it is time to replace my cheap all-in-one Comcast supplied modem/router); any Modem and any Router will work as well as any other, for high-end audio, as long as each passes a signal.  [It is agreed, having a router separate from one's modem seems to be better, but apparently not from a sound-quality standpoint.]  I was about to replace the old 60' long coax line feeding my modem from the exterior cable box (under the house, easy to get to in 3' to 4' crawl space) - also a waste of time, yes?

 

Coming from a Linn Sondek Turntable background (purchased in 1978, in an era where whatever was at the "front end" was all-important), it just seems a bit counter-intuitive to me that everything (EVERYTHING) else matters, save for one's modem and router. 

 

(Not directed at ericuco!)

So, tell me one last time and I'll quit asking:

The EtherREGEN will "scrub" the signal headed to the Streamer in my headphone setup; and, even when powered by wall warts, there is nothing a cheap modem or cheap Wi-Fi router can do to even marginally degrade it before it get there.  Correct?

 

 

 

A bit of humour, or at least amusement:  Note in the David vs Goliath photo below, the little Schiit stack on the left.  For 1/40 the price, it actually sounds really good!

 

This is starting to move off topic here so I will conclude with "it all depends". All of this is highly system specific. Seeing a photo of your setup helps in that it means you are probably plugging all of your equipment into a single electrical circuit so using LPS MIGHT help cut down any electrical noise on the circuit. Also, you have carpet (vs hardwood) which can affect things. Cables sitting on carpet can POTENTIALLY pick up static electricity.

 

It also depends if you are streaming music from the Internet vs playing local files. With local files, you are not running anything through your modem and router. If you are streaming then PERHAPS upgrading modem and router MIGHT help but as I mentioned earlier, a streaming file has gone through probably hundreds of pieces of network gear before it arrives at your house so ...

 

Also, some people here can tell the difference when they swap out what is seemly the most benign item but report hearing significant improvements. I have experienced that some changes help and others don't, quite unexpectedly at times. For instance, the Cisco switch that was being promoted as improving sound actually sounded worse in my system which is predominantly optical network.

 

The promise of the EtherREGEN is to "scrub" the line. Obviously the less junk it needs to scrub, PROBABLY the better but again, that is for you to determine. That is why the Uptone and Sonore guys leave it to the end user to access the results and why they provide return policies.

[ericuco]

There are dual rate SFP+ transceivers like the Finisar FTLX8574D3BCV but the product description states:

 

"This product is for applications specifically designed for 10G SFP+ ports and 1G/10GSFP+ ports and not native 1G SFP ports."

 

The ports in my 10Gbps Mikrotik switch are 1G/10GSFP+ capability where I have been able to use both 10G SFP+ transceivers as well as 1G SFP transceivers.