kumakuma Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 I used XiSRC to convert both the DSF file and WAV files to 16/44.1 FLAC files. The resulting files were 7.4 MB in size which is 28% of the WAV size. Both files played fine in JRiver. MP3 files (320 CBR) created directly from JRiver were 6MB in size. Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 59 minutes ago, dalethorn said: I'm getting that, to some extent anyway. Based on my comment just above, I wonder now whether we can't have better "pre-converters" that fatten up some of these FLACs with more detail, rather than just go for the most extreme compression. Just speculating.... Unlike the mp3 or MQA formats, FLAC is a lossless compression method. Everything that's in the uncompressed file (WAV) is in the FLAC file, regardless of what compression level is used. Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, esldude said: Can you clarify what you mean by this. +1 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 8 minutes ago, dalethorn said: Why couldn't I generate a larger FLAC that has more info that's still playable on players that don't accept files higher than 16/44 or 16/48? There must be a way, rather than saying "that isn't the way things are done". You can certainly create a larger FLAC file by lowering the compression rate. It won't, however, contain any more information than a smaller, more compressed FLAC file assuming, of course, that the bit depth and sample rate match the original uncompressed file. This is why it's called lossless compression. Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 7 minutes ago, esldude said: Sounds like MQA. Or at least what MQA claims to promise. Now I get what he is driving at. His use of "FLAC" in a generic way threw me for a loop. Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 28 minutes ago, dalethorn said: It's "lossless" only in the sense of relating it to a WAV equivalent. But made direct from a higher res master, it's lossy. You appear to be equating WAV with CD-quality uncompressed audio data (16/44.1). WAV data can be in any bit depth and sample rate such as 24/44.1, 24/48, 24/96 or 24/192. A FLAC file created from a WAV file in any of these resolutions will be lossless. Creating a 16/44.1 FLAC file from a 24/192 WAV file, for example, requires dithering the bit depth of the WAV file down from 24 bits to 16 bits and reducing the sample rate from 192 to 44.1. These are lossy operations that have nothing to do with the WAV to FLAC conversion which is lossless. Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, dalethorn said: I have come to realize that the solo piano music I have on CD is compressing to around 35-40 percent of the WAV size, which seems fair. But to have one cd be 22.2 percent in the face of a dozen others above 35 percent? Surely that is a huge anomaly. Perhaps it's related to the fact that the recording you are referring to is a native DSD recording. Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 hour ago, dalethorn said: But as I noted above, the conversion issue from DSD to 24/88 or 24/96 has never been fixed. Can you explain what you mean by "conversion issue"? I had no problem converting your DSD file to 24/88.2 FLAC format using two different programs (JRiver and XiSRC). Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 hours ago, dalethorn said: This thread has the full details, repeated several times. As far as I can tell, you used Jriver to convert the DSD files to 24/88.2 FLAC format. You were unfamiliar with Jriver so you needed to ask some other folks how to do this. You converted the files based on their advice and there were problems with the converted file. You believe that the cause is something to do with the DSD files. All I can tell you is that the DSD file you shared seems fine here and I'm unable to reproduce what you experienced. If I had to guess what the cause was, I would go with something in your JRiver settings, probably on the DSP Studio page. Here are the settings I used: Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Just now, dalethorn said: Yes, I used those same exact settings. The FLACs I got destroyed my Foobar2000 install on my Windows XP PC. I know for a fact that my Foobar is perfect, because it plays all commercial high-res FLACs. So the problem is JRMC on my Macbook making those conversions. I have to wonder if the other people making those conversions are not playing them back on a generic PC in Foobar2000, and whether their playback requires a specific DAC. My thousand-plus FLACs play fine with the internal soundcard (Realtek?) or the Dragonfly Red. Can you share one of the files that's giving you grief? Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, dalethorn said: I'm going to convert a DSD to 24/88 FLAC and put it into my Dropbox, but so far I can't get JRiver to show the one track on the screen. I did the folder import, and there's an option that keeps bringing up an old playlist, and even though I remove that list, it keeps reappearing. This is possibly the worst software I've ever used. Once I find how to display that track to convert I'll do so. This worked a few days ago when I first installed JRiver, but today none of the display options are showing the track I just "imported". You should be able to use File > Open Media File... Then right click Library Tools > Convert Format Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, dalethorn said: BTW, I told the guys at JRiver last week that I wanted a refund since their player could not make playable 24/88 FLACs, so I wonder if they disabled the thing already. I know that Apple can "reach out" and do things to my phone without my permission, like an abusive landlord who sneaks in whenever they wish without regard to the law. I wonder if JRiver is able to turn off the functionality of my player remotely without notice, other than my asking them for a refund? I haven't seen the refund BTW. If you are just trying to do conversions, you might want to consider XiSRC as a replacement. It's super easy to use: https://www.xivero.com/xisrc/ Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 minute ago, dalethorn said: Thank you. That's the second possibility I've been suggested. Now to find the time to repeat a (possible) second scenario like the first here, hoping for success.... I see that JRMC is a primary advertiser here. Good luck! Sorry that JRiver didn't work out for you. I've been using it on a daily basis for years and never had a issues with it. I've got a massive library and I couldn't imagine trying to manage it without this program. rayooo 1 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, dalethorn said: Another amazement - the payment asks for the money without allowing selection of the proper version (Mac). I'm sure there's a simple explanation.... On the page I linked to:: Quote The activation allows 3 parallel installations. In fact, it is possible to use the Windows and MacOS X Version in parallel by just using one activation key. In other words, downloading the software and buying the license key which works for both versions are separate operations. Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, dalethorn said: Thanks again. But... 1) Did you do conversions from DSD to high res PCM using the Mac version? 2) Did you try to play those high res files on a PC using an internal soundcard without a specific DAC connected? The reason for these questions is in the JRiver documentation that says the Mac version is incomplete, and elsewhere in the docs that some aspect of MC's conversions are targeted at specific DACs. I don't use a PC at all. I've converted DSD files to 24/88.2 hundreds of times in the past to put them on my DAP. I don't understand how a conversion to a standard format like FLAC can be targeted at a specific DAC. Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 minute ago, dalethorn said: Your claim is technically correct, but otherwise incorrect. Foobar2000 plays every (and I mean every) download in the world correctly, but not JRiver's DSD conversions. So we can argue this back and forth, and how these "other non-free" players are right and Foobar (free) is wrong, but the world of download providers argues strongly against your perspective. And BTW, JRiver's conversions to 16/44 did work, so there's something very funky going on in their DSD conversions. I will not accept that Foobar is at fault until enough expert users confirm that Foobar is missing something - something that's fully open and generic and *not* intended to restrict playback in any way, that Foobar is stumbling on. At this point, my suspicions have to be toward JRiver, since it's the only known source of error. Did you read what @esldude wrote? Foobar shit the bed when fed a file converted with a different program (Sonore's DSD2FLAC program), not JRiver. This clearly shows that JRiver isn't the culprit. Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
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