Better Roon Endpoints?

[davide256]

Looking to start a discussion on what folks use/prefer for their Roon Endpoints. I'm floored by how good an iPhone6 sounds as a Roon endpoint feeding asynch USB, wondering what others have tried,

compared?

[davide256]

8 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

Is this why your selling your MicroRendu ?  :-)

 

Can you enlighten us if or what adapter in use ?

 

Yes, I'm finding its a better Roon endpoint than the microRendu for bass and mid-range harmonics, using a CCK/USPCB connection to Schitt Eitr. The only catch is the battery exhausts rapidly with a 6plus (A8 processor), can't get more than 6 hours use before the battery goes dead. Deliberating now about buying a new iPad or iPad Pro so that  I can get at least an A9 processor ,  have phone service while playing music and hopefully longer battery life. In the FWIW column I've also tried an iPad Mini 2, the microRendu outperformed it as Roon endpoint.

[davide256]

4 hours ago, nkbg said:

I can confirm my iPhone X sounded different (possibly even better?, deeper and open soundstage, but was a quick test) than a MacBook playing to a Hugo 2 over USB via Iso Regen.

 

For or some reason playback stops when the device is locked. More testing required. 

You have to set the phone to never screenlock, else Roon stops when screen lock kicks in. Which is why I'm thinking dedicated iPad instead, for obvious security reasons.

[davide256]

20 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

How do you exactly connect from an iPhone or an  iPad ? (USPCB won’t go to iPhone ?)

Are you using a specific Apple adapter, or just some cheap USB adapter plugs ?

 

Do I understand you correctly, that you’re saying there is a difference in using an iPad vs an iPhone ?

 

@nkbg

What cable/adapters in use ?

I use this , it allows an iPhone/iPad to work with asynch USB connection, so long as the  attached device doesn't draw too much power.

 

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD821AM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter?fnode=97&fs=f%3Dlightning%26fh%3D458e%2B3068

 

A phone needs to travel with me  which creates security needs, and has extra power consumption for cellular service. A  wifi only iPad used as dedicated  Roon endpoint makes

more sense to me than iPhone as long term solution.  I can leave it unlocked and turn off all battery consuming services not needed for music playback.  Bigger devices also tend to have bigger batteries, the trick with the iPad will be to cut the screen used current to the minimum possible so that the bigger screen size doesn't offset the bigger battery.

[davide256]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

 

I understand this as MicroRende win. Correct ?

 

 

Here you say the iPhone 6 is better, as also indicated in your fist post.

 

So i'm a bit confused, using two pretty good iDevices, gives so different results. If so, it would be interesting to understand why.

Or Am I missing something here ?

yes, iPhone6  sounds clearer, reaches deeper into the recording than the iPad mini 2 as Roon endpoint. I can only guess why, my money is on faster, electrically quiet processor. I like the Mini 2, am testing it now for a battery life test as Roon endpoint but I couldn't live with it as happily as I did with the microRendu

[davide256]

1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

 

Hi Dave

 

As mentioned in the other thread, I don't follow this issue you're having. My iPhone screen is locked and I never lose connection to it from my Roon Core.

 

If I press the home button on my iPhone (from a locked screen), I even get Roon controls on my lockscreen. See attached photo.

 

Actually even if stop the music, I still keep connection with my iPhone as a zone.

 

All I've done is turned private zone OFF. Nothing else. 

 

 

 This is the behavior looking at status from the Roon core server with Roon running on iPhone

 

1) iPhone disappears as a zone when screen lock timer kicks in

2) iPhone disappears as a zone when screen lock button is pressed on right side

3) iPhone reappears as a zone when phone is unlocked after pressing home button

4) iPhone disappears as a zone when any other application is the foreground active application

 

[davide256]

8 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

This Apple camera adapter allows you to charge your iPhone at the same time with a normal lightning cable - check out the 2nd photo.

 

https://www.apple.com/au/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter

 

Check out the 'compatibility' list and your iPhone is listed. Anything with a lightning connector is obviously supported.

 

Connecting a powerbank to this (like the TP Link one I linked in the other thread) would give you 18+ hours of continuous playback.

I'm going to get one ASAP, already have an Ankar battery I routinely use for USB port tablet charging. $59 sounds far cheaper than buying another iDevice

[davide256]

26 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Yep, I have none of these issues for all those scenarios. As per my screenshot, music is playing with the phone screen locked. Even with the Roon app in the background (other apps in the foreground).

 

Are you sure you've disabled private zone for that iPhone? Can you post a screenshot of your device settings (iPhone) in Roon

 

If you have an iPhone and an iPad you need to disable private zone for each iOS devices individually. I wish they disabled it by default.

 

Perhaps contact Roon Support? Something doesn't appear right. They are super helpful.

screen shot

 

[davide256]

43 minutes ago, skatbelt said:

 

Forgive me but I am in the process of being flabbergasted. I just replaced my Mac Mini (modded) / Uptone JS-2 / LPS-1 / SDD-drive / microRendu with my iPhone just for fun and out of curiosity. Never expected this result. My microRendu is the first generation one so may be that explains your preference.

I did the 1.4 upgrade... my iPhone 6 still sounded better

[davide256]

On 1/9/2018 at 6:37 AM, skatbelt said:

 

If I lock the screen music plays on. But at the end of a track (if I play only one track) or album or if I pause a track, my iPhone disappears as a selectable audio zone.

agree, locking doesn't stop music already playing, goes away when track/album is not playing. Radio feature will keep the phone playing

[davide256]

On 1/9/2018 at 6:57 AM, skatbelt said:

 

An album will continue to play.

 

Strangely Roon is not in the list of apps where you can choose to background refresh or not.

I see the same. Which could be part of the problem

[davide256]

17 hours ago, Cebolla said:

 

Are you certain about that?

 

It's more likely to be the other way around, ie, Roon Server supporting the Google Cast streaming technology, allowing you to use a Chromecast device as a Roon Endpoint without it having any RAAT knowledge. So an addition to the Roon Server's current 'special' support for some non-RAAT technologies: HQPlayer, Squeezebox/Slim and not forgetting Apple's own AirPlay.

 

Which begs the question - isn't it about time the Roon Server had bog standard UPnP/DLNA support in its list of 'specials'?

Why? I find my Roon core server with locally stored music sounds better than music served from Synology NAS.

[davide256]

3 hours ago, LarryMagoo said:

 David,

 

Nice that you mentioned this...I run RoonServer from my MAC mini where my library is stored (1TB SSD).  Other folks have told me to separate into Core and Library.   But I simply cannot believe getting and setting up a NAS, yards and yards of CAT 6 cable, more Connectors/Connections, when my 12VDC MAC Mini run through my DDS Hydra Z gives black silence between the notes...

It was true for UPNP, but I'm not finding it so for Roon. What bugs me is that with the microRendu there wasn't that much difference between UPNP and Roon NAA, I'd really like to understand why. Unfortunately I don't know of a way to stream UPNP with iPhone/iPad. I'd really like to try that comparison, to see if they sound the same or to verify if Roon endpoint performance depends on CPU power. I will caveat that when I compared UPNP/Roon before Roon  could be used on iPhone/iPad, I was using Synology NAS  for file server as all my prior testing had led me to believe locally stored music on a PC would sound worse.
 

[davide256]

3 hours ago, Cebolla said:

 

I think you misunderstood my post. I meant for the Roon core server to support UPnP/DLNA, so that UPnP/DLNA renderers could be used as Roon Endpoints (in keeping with your thread), ie, without the UPnP/DLNA renderers having to know anything about RAAT. So just like the Roon core server's 'special' support for HQPlayer, Squeezebox, AirPlay and in the future, Chromecast (as mentioned by @R1200CL).

Perhaps I misunderstand Roon; I thought their argument was that UPNP and other streaming protocols are flawed, hence why they developed RAAT.

[davide256]

 

On 1/16/2018 at 2:35 AM, Em2016 said:

While waiting for my All USBridge to arrive, I have to say the Pi3 WiFi solution destroys the iPhone/iPad in terms of battery life (battery consumption).

 

My TP-Link TL-PB20100 powering the Pi3 played for 10 hours from last night to this morning and still had 50% battery left in the morning.

 

I suspect the USBridge won't be as power frugal as the Pi3 but will have much lower noise output with it's low noise linear regulators.

 

My listening sessions are only ~2 hours late evening, so adding some margin, if the USBridge can run for 6+ hours on my powerbank I'll be super happy.

 

The real test will be DSD256 and PCM768kHz (the max my Hugo2 can do on Linux) over the USBridge WiFi connection, in addition to battery consumption.

 

 

Battery isn't proving an issue now for iPhone using the USB3 CCK cable with auxiliary Ankar battery . Having the iPhone ring through the system during play is .

Love to hear how you feel the Allo device stacks up for SQ against later generation iDevices

[davide256]

On 1/17/2018 at 10:11 PM, Em2016 said:

 

In progress.

 

I brought out the big gun powerbank, my Chargetech PLUG 42,000 mAh to power the USBridge.

 

It came fully assembled which is nice.Setting up the WiFi with their own supplied dongle was a pain. Instructions are scattered across this forum and the Roon forum but it's all out there. I wish it was one page in their manual.

 

I never use up-sampling with my Hugo2 but I'm up-sampling to DSD256 via DoP just to test wireless connectivity, which was flawless with the iPhone, as you would expect and hopeless with the RPi3, as expected with it's shared bus.

 

There's no connection issues at all with the USBridge with DSD256 via DoP and PCM768kHz. The limiting factor will be your own wireless network of course but the USBridge is rock solid - no dropouts.

 

By design this has a much better regulated low noise USB audio output than the iPhone. 

It sounds great right out of the box. My phone can stay with me, away from the HiFi gear. You can of course turn off the phone's cell connection but I prefer not to, for emergencies etc.

 

I need to give it some days of relaxed listening to properly assess if it would replace the ultraRendu... No need to rush these things.

 

I've already got the metal case for the USBridge on the way though. It's a keeper, whether in my main setup or around the house as another endpoint.

 

 

 

 

 

Still curious. An Apple Touch would run about the same price as the Allo solution and would be far easier to setup. I always try to correlate to reviewer opinions, when I look at Hans Beekhuyzen's reviews it appears he ranked SQ as follows

 

1. SoTM Ultra SMS200

2. Sonore MicroRendu

3. SoTM SMS200

4. Allo USbridge

 

[davide256]

Hmm, so the unique attributes of iPhone vs microRendu are

 

1) internal battery power

2) integrated 802.11ac wifi

3) faster processor

 

trying to think of other like devices. Wonder if there are any high quality DAP's with same attributes that could also be Roon endpoints?

[davide256]

Wondering if anyone has tried the Oppo 203 or 205 as a Roon endpoint? Built in Roon endpoint support sounds promising.

[davide256]

I have a 2nd hand ISO Regen on the way, am eager to hear if it can further improve iPhone Roon output to USB. And have been using an Ankar battery with the USB3 CCK cable to keep the iPhone battery protected. Overall i’m happy with what I hear below 4khz but there is some edginess above on female vocalists that I hope the ISO Regen will fix. 

[davide256]

41 minutes ago, frederick184 said:

I got tired of having so many boxes.  Using an Auralic Altair as my Roon endpoint, controlled by an iPad Air2.  Sounds great.  

 

Colin

I think what you mean is the Altair is “Roon Ready”, meaning that you can use Roon core server with it and talk UPNP/DLNA to the Altair. Devices like microRendu and the iPhone are “Roon endpoints”, they run Roon clients supporting the RAAT protocol between Roon core server and Roon endpoint. I believe Roon works with most UPNP devices but I’m not sure if you can get RAAT support if the endpoint doesn’t run a Roon client. 

[davide256]

19 hours ago, diecaster said:

 

Roon does not support UPNP/DLNA.

Something doesn't ring true there. Part of my Roon core testing was to run Roon core on PC  for library against locally USB3 attached disks and then against my Synology NAS with same disks USB3 attached... worked fine for indexing and remote control except for greater latency with the NAS. There was no Roon software on the NAS, it was running its generic media server software.

[davide256]

13 hours ago, diecaster said:

 

Unless you were going use it as an endpoint, why would there need to be Roon software on the NAS? The NAS is accessible on the network to the PC and Roon. The PC acted as the core and endpoint. 

 

The folks at Roon are quite emphatic about not supporting UPNP/DNLA now nor in the future. Please feel free to check out their forum if don’t believe what I am telling you. 

Well I find it important that switching to Roon basically blew away my previous solution architecture. Before Roon with a UPNP solution, best sound was achieved running Minimserver on NAS and using Lumin/Kinsky/Kazoo control points. Now best sound is achieved with local attached drives to PC running Roon core, sent to Roon endpoint, controlled through Roon GUI. My NAS  became a distant second in SQ and is now re-purposed solely as a video server

[davide256]

18 minutes ago, buzzlulu said:

 

What are you running for a ROON endpoint?

Still an iPhone6... it beat the microRendu I owned for Roon SQ. Still hoping this thread  will flush out other competitive options as I don't want my iPhone to be the long term solution.

[davide256]

17 minutes ago, buzzlulu said:

More clarity and AIR around things - not a flat "2D" presentation but rather a "3D" presentation.  Similar to what I get when I compare digital to my vinyl LP12.  Also a bit more dynamic range.

 

Not sure if you are familiar with the new Sony Signature series headphone lineup - Z1R headphones, Walkman WM1Z, TA-ZH1ES DAC/Amp.  Right now the WM1Z Walkman is considered the premier portable digital player on the market nudging out the TOTL Astell & Kern.  Anyone who has the set uses the Walkman as a digital source to the DAC/Amp as it is TOTL.  Well - I found the SonicOrbiter SE to beat that combination as well (I own both so no horse in the race).

 

Many write off the supplied Sony USB cable as poor however for now I'm stuck with it as it has a proprietary connector.  The only way around it is to buy a dock for the Walkman (which would allow after market USB cables)

BUT

in all my tests I use a generic USB cable for consistency - so theoretically all devices are equally hobbled by the cable.

 

 

mmm... I'm looking at Sony's site and the important phrase "asynch USB" is missing from the device description, they just talk to plain vanilla USB. What are they using for asynch USB chip set in this device to insure good clock timing?

[davide256]

Received the ISO Regen yesterday,  and have racked up a few hours using it with  iPhone. The effects are more noticeable for some reason with 16 bit music vs 24 bit.  Instrument details are  more clearly focused, lower volume background themes/instrument counterpoint have sharp relief. So a keeper.