Best CPU for hqplayer

[dericchan1]

On 1/13/2024 at 6:27 AM, Miska said:

Small update regarding RPi5.

 

With some settings fine tuning I was able to get ASDM5EC-light working reliably to DSD256 output. And ASDM7EC-light also such way that there's only about one drop-out per five minutes. This with overclocking to 2.9 GHz. If one can get a particular unit running stable at 3 GHz, then ASDM7EC-light may also become stable.

 

@Miska I received my RPI5 4G version today and a 8G version is coming the end of February. For your testing, are you running the Ubuntu desktop version? Is 4G likely enough for Hqplayer desktop version?

 

I should be getting my Cyan 2 most likely next week, it would make an awesome combo with a RPI5 for dsd256 7EC-light and the Cyan 2. 

I will likely be getting one of these bad boy fan cooler for the rpi 5 and do some overclocking to 3Ghz

[dericchan1]

50 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

I'm testing with HQPlayer Embedded on minimal install of Debian 12. I don't know if Ubuntu supports RPi5 yet.

 

But on RPi4 4GB model HQPlayer Desktop works fine on Ubuntu Desktop 22.04 LTS. So 4 GB should be enough.

 

Thanks Miska.

Actually I read on the Ubuntu website that they will not back support rpi 5 on 22.04 but only 22.10 officially support rpi 5. But I suppose hqplayer will not work on 22.10?

[dericchan1]

31 minutes ago, blackhawk579 said:

Gents/all, 

Can you critque my HQ Payer/ Roon Server silent PC build (below)?   Good config? What would you change? Looking to run it for HQ Player +  filters DSD (256/512+?) with some solid filter options + Roon Core/Server running convolution and maybe a bit of parametric EQ tweaking... Its a Fanless PC about the same footprint as my DAC/Pre-Amp.   

 

Questions

-I went with I9 13900T 1.1GHZ... (its the highest for this chassis).   

-There is a very basic graphics capability here.  I will not be doing CUDA offload to graphics card.  Is this a big mistake?      

-32 GB of RAM overkill?  There is another mother board option which can get me the higher DD5 (this is DD4) but i don;t believe I would need? ( I may just go with 32GB to future proof as the RAM is not expensive these days. )  Let me know if DD5 would be worth it.  My understanding it is all about CPU power.     

-Went with thier fastest SSD for OS/Apps speed.   I don;t have a ton of music files to store and may just keep them on my NAS to minimize further compute.  

-What would you change or add?  Ditch this chassi for larger form factor with higher end processor options?  

-I am not too concerned with price. i want to do this right.     

   

Update: 

-**After reading some this morning, it appears I should likely give up on this chassis and go with a cooler unit, tucked away running a higher end I9 that i have.   I want to err on the side of power, as i want to do this once**  

-I can keep the Roon Core/Convolution on the Nas if I feel it is holding me back.   

 

I hate to provide answer on hardware when there are so many cpu and configurations out there. Here you have a 13900T which is a mobile cpu so I am not sure how it compares to say a standard desktop cpu.

 

my partial response would be to provide you reference.

 

DSD512 7EC super works perfectly fine with my 13600K, no overclock. Only filters you need a gpu would be the Sinc Long or Sinc L variants… most everything else do not need a gpu

as

@Carousel suggested. You are better off to use a powerful desktop pc in another room rather than a silent pc and route to a NAA such as a raspberry pi 5 that is fanless and low power consumption

[dericchan1]

27 minutes ago, blackhawk579 said:

Thank you both.  

Using Holo Red Streamer (NAA) -> Holo May KTE (NOS mode) -> Serene KTE - > Amp etc.   

 

That is a great point, I don't need this in my music room....it opens up the options - for sure.  In this case does everyone leave it on 24/7 (if tucked away in another room)?  I am not counting too many pennies -  ideally I am not running a high power PC 24/7.   Wake up on Lan ping? Or can roon wake up the PC when reaching out for connect?   What is the best practice in this case....   

 

Thanks again   

You probably don't even need to have your PC tucked away in an inconvenient spot. I have my PC upstairs in my home office, so I will turn it on, go down to my basement for my music session, use VNC to turn on HQP client for qobuz, at the end of the session, VNC to shut down the PC. 

 

You can probably just leave the PC in the same room as long as it is far enough you would not hear the fan. Upgrade with the big quiet Noctua fan and if you wish, put some thing like this inside the chassis - SilverStone Technology EPDM Sound Dampening Foam/Noise Absorption Material Excellent Adhesion in High Heat 2 Pack SF01-NEW : Amazon.ca: Musical Instruments, Stage & Studio

I highly doubt you could hear any fan noise standing 2 feet from it.

 

[dericchan1]

43 minutes ago, blackhawk579 said:

Thanks for the input both.  I am now considering 2 options.  I need opinions as i have not heard DSD512 or DSD 1024 with good filters.  

 

a) using a PC that stays in music room which would double as a usable PC for everyday home PC (light MS Office home admin, running household etc) and the odd game (which I will need to tune down HQ player settings if double hatting with anything processing use).   It woud be a quietish (not silent) PC in which I would get 14th gen Intel I9 and  add a decent video card (possibly not used as much for CUDA to keep sound down) etc - again kept in room to connect video card to monitor as "powerful, quiet PC in my music/office, somewhat multi purpose".  My very uneducated guess, is i coulld run DSD256 with decent fiters, and DSD512 with base filters (when not gaming).    

 

or 

 

b) 100% dedicated HPQ /Audio PC in another room on network, with fairly maxed settings- and get to DSD1024 with good filters...like  Eminent suggested.

 

Question:  Is the leap from DSD 256 / DSD 512 to DSD 1024 worth going to option B.   Is it a big enough leap to DSD1024 to go "audio only" and spend 3K ish on a full sized maxed model in antoher room?   Does DSD1024 have the real goods?  

 

 

 

      

You will never know if you prefer dsd256 vs dsd512 vs dsd1024 if you don’t have a powerful enough computer. A powerful pc  will at least allow you to try it. At the end it’s only a preference.

 

as mentioned in another thread, I know a few folks with Spring 3 and May kte, tried 1024 and just went back to dsd256 and never looked back.

 

i don’t have a holo dac yet but with my ifi idsd pro I also much preferred dsd256. I also purposely bought a new pc when hqp5 launched just so I can get dsd 512 stable, so it’s a pity i ended up didn’t like 512 and stick with 256
 

I kinda recalled Miska stick with dsd512 so ymmv 

 

it also matters if you have any tubes or maybe class D amp in your chain … so it’s system dependent there is no guarantee higher rate = better once you go up to 256, but you won’t know your preference until you try it 

[dericchan1]

6 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

22.10? It is pretty old already. I don't know if current HQPlayer builds work on intermediate short term releases, I don't do such testing. Only on LTS.

 

Sorry I meant to say 23.10

[dericchan1]

16 hours ago, Miska said:

 

OK, so I'd say next 24.04 LTS we can consider as the OS for running HQPlayer Desktop.

 

While Embedded is on Debian 12 "bookworm" and thus already there.

 

Ok, confirming Hqplayer desktop works on RPI5 with Ubuntu 23.10. But honestly everything else other than hqplayer desktop seem to be not working well with RPI5, (VNC, VLC media player... its almost like RPI5 is not really compatible with Ubuntu 23.10).

 

I have a 4GB version of RPI5 and I currently don't have a dac to test dsd playback, but down sampling everything to pcm 16/48 and qobuz seem be running stable.

[dericchan1]

4 minutes ago, jkelly said:

 

Not sure is Wayland is enabled on Ubuntu 23.10, but if that is the case, it breaks a lot of software.

Again if that is the case, you may be able to disable it.

Thanks, I read something about Wayland and Ubuntu is working on it but obviously lots of apps are incompatible - again other than hqplayer 5 - it actually played pcm1536 perfectly last night!!

[dericchan1]

2 minutes ago, jkelly said:

I have been enjoying the RPI5 myself.

Enough that I will buy a license for it at the end of the month.

 

I am upsampling to 768 for my Mojo2.

 

My favorites are:

poly-sinc-xtr-short-lp
poly-sinc-gauss-long/poly-sinc-gauss-hires-lp
sinc-L
sinc-short
 

Some of the poly's are bass heavy with my simple setup.

I listen for spread of instruments and depth and of course tone.

Sinc-short has been my goto lately.

 

I have just recently sold my mojo2 - great dac I had a lot of fun with it in my bedroom speaker system.  

 

poly-sinc-gauss-long/poly-sinc-gauss-hires-lp were my default set up but Sinc Long/Sinc Medium is a match in heaven with the Mojo 2 for jazz/classical stuff. I also like the half-band s filter...

 

[dericchan1]

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/166388450606?hash=item26bd86452e:g:IusAAOSwrSBkisl4&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4HJcwvaQJZMXQMk%2FT7GQBdwiWJvbLTu%2BCBAFwXlKwKWErp98DpUO3GIZYKp3Hbvx612Dn803y%2FeoqiYLJ94VLuSkPkoaqvOO0Z0Hzux%2FOlmc0Uy%2Fz2wFAUSF1zIlJRCTL9%2B2lqdxLsKwtOq4zZYJpHJYvvGgfQQ96aYrIDUrPVxTWe0DC8QSCxkLUuS6HmWaPouqEW5VNcf9gEktfZXijv3UuzL4MgoCPmYfJzFXdc0d1TvWnA99uEJyw9YPr0MwzNBkb%2BXooUnNVvCr5SCpwUHFxPSmlOF1qtyZD89clDcA|tkp%3ABFBM8Mf326xj

 

A mini pc N100 will run any PCM upsampling other than sinc Long

 

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/285609620225?hash=item427fa8f301:g:bbQAAOSwTbZlfMDb&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4GSSI6drvRlsLpcNVaZwbWhL3K2LXqep38bmjyJG0dOgWb7vfW%2FqmUumb%2BYCmfPxkGRBDtg5wwq92DBYYxeu3FxhyXy%2F2DpO2OFRuJ4iIRBRejMCNZktVYEZ%2F9BqGpa2c3nskLLtM9w%2F%2BBrydN7A5p0tXUX3aVK5v6pdgIBDQQlxthH0XbLHktdzAPGOLxMEZv28Zz%2BNSZZlGCWQmWQX%2F7UzNTMEyobb5WZPLWaT4FT3FUgW7%2FMnvS926CFW%2ByLVBRnvY6lyyKHpGWolz3NCLfhmezPCqC6Jna8rWRm274Ef|tkp%3ABk9SR4rE_9usYw

 

Something like this will be overkill but a better investment in case one day you like to do dsd256 perhaps

[dericchan1]

Got this bad boy in with the rpi5 8gb today!! Time to do some oc and make this the best cpu for hqplayer!!!!

 

cheers

[dericchan1]

1 hour ago, bogi said:

@dericchan1  What's the price of Pi5 with such a cooling?

About $125 us

[dericchan1]

be sure you don't accidentally touch any of the metal part tho. I got a tiny shock and the OS frozen hahahahaha. I guess why people get a acrylic cover for this!!!

[dericchan1]

@Miska did you know that my tower cooler and Rpi5 8gb would be delivered to me today so you decided to launch the Raspian OS for rpi5??  
 

cheers 

 

😂 

[dericchan1]

Soooo,

 

oc to 3000hz will not boot up for me

 

oc to 2900hz will boot but not stable, the os froze on me occasionally and hqplayer sometimes just exit on its own…

 

oc to 2800hz seems to be stable but stutters at dsd 256x48 ultra light modulator.

[dericchan1]

3 minutes ago, bogi said:

@dericchan1  You may yet try to play with 'Blocks per cycle' value.

 

Are you playing to 48k DSD capable DAC? (Cyan2 ?). Do you have 'Adaptive rate' checked?

Yes, I am using the RPI5 with the Cyan 2 now, DSD 256x48 7ECUL stutter, I have Adaptive rate fully checked. Probably 2.8Ghz is not fast enough for that but its all I can manage to OC it to. 

It has nothing to do with temperature as well, with the fan cooler, it never really goes anywhere near throttling temp.

 

PCM 20/1536 stable.

[dericchan1]

13 minutes ago, bogi said:

@dericchan1  You may yet try to play with 'Blocks per cycle' value.

 

Are you playing to 48k DSD capable DAC? (Cyan2 ?). Do you have 'Adaptive rate' checked?

Logically speaking should I set the ‘Blocks per cycle’ value higher or lower?

 

Now it also comes with a E core allocation option for dsp or filters… I guess I can play with that too 

[dericchan1]

4 minutes ago, fgribas said:

 

Is it the HQP Desktop package for Debian12 / RPi OS? I thought it was the Raspbian OS itself 😁

 

 

 

1- What power supply are you using? 

 

2- When you run "dmesg" do you see any messages regarding undervoltage?

 

3- When you run the command "vcgencmd pmic_read_adc EXT5V_V" what voltage do you see? It should be really close to 5v. Here with a super high quality power supply I get 4.98748000V

 

4- Even if you don't see undervoltage messages, try to add 50mv overvoltage by adding "over_voltage_delta=50000" to /boot/config.txt and rebooting. This will not solve the undervoltage condition if you have it (must have a good power supply for that), it will only allow better overclocks.

 

I tested my RPi5 with 3500MHz, pretty stable with that settings. Although it's not used for heavy processing (HQP server), I'm using only as an audio endpoint

Hi I just use the original rpi5 power supply. I did include the over_voltage_delta=50000

 

i will check dmesg and the vcgencmd line and see what it reads.

 

Thanks 

[dericchan1]

31 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Yes, that's what it is... Look at here:

https://www.raspberrypi.com/software/operating-systems/

 

It is "raspios-bookworm" and once you install it, it points to Debian package repositories. Latest Raspbian OS equals to pretty much stock Debian 12 "bookworm".

 

So yes, that's what it's for.

 

Tests I refer to above are on 64-bit "Raspberry Pi OS Lite". Which is Debian 12 "bookworm" and the installation is pointing to Debian package repositories (debian.org).

 

So the package will work on any "arm64" Debian 12 "bookworm" platform, not just on RPi. As long as the architecture is ARMv8A or later. So for example Apple M1/M2/M3 chips would be fine.

 

So you used the lite os without desktop, did you then set up an x11 desktop to run the hqplayer desktop version? 

[dericchan1]

4 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

All my testing is on minimal lite OS with Embedded. In a passive cooled case which gets really really hot overclocked and running HQPlayer 😅 (feels really hot to fingers). But it works for as long I've tested (few hours in row).

 

Desktop package is also available and from DSP performance point of view is the same. But of course the GUI will have some load implications as well. More you have there (Client etc), more load you will have. But if you have just Desktop GUI and run Client elsewhere, it shouldn't be much different.

 

I had tried hqplayer with my passive case and it was so hot to touch like a stove top - not safe for the kids to touch… 😂 

 

yes i will try running hqplayer desktop with a pretty much empty bookworm os with desktop and run client else where and see how it goes 

 

[dericchan1]

2 minutes ago, soundnerdie said:

A quick update.

 

I found the 4GB version of the Pi 5 overclocks better than the 8GB one. 

 

4GB version:

I used the following in the config.txt and ran a stress test using s-tui.

over_voltage_delta=50000
arm_freq=3000
gpu_freq=910
 

VDD_CORE_A current(7)=6.76893900A

VDD_CORE_V volt(15)=1.0046900V

EXT5V_V volt(24)=5.14292000V (27W power supply)

Thanks. That’s what I read about as well that the 4Gb version oc better and even not oc, it runs processes faster in most cases compared to a 8gb version.

 

now I wonder at 3000hz you are able to run dsd256x48 7ECUL stable?

 

at 2900hz I could run dsd256x48 7ECUL but not with convolution.

[dericchan1]

33 minutes ago, soundnerdie said:

It is a stable run.

 

I added force_turbo=1 to the config.txt. In the hqplayerd.xml file, I have set multicore==1 but not nblocks=1.

 

I am a noob.

 

can you please advise what these commands are? Do you add them to your config.txt?

 

VDD_CORE_Acurrent(7)=6.76893900A

VDD_CORE_V volt(15)=1.0046900V

EXT5V_V volt(24)=5.14292000V (27W power supply)

[dericchan1]

Just now, roderickvd said:

 

Does changing the CPU governor from ondemand to performance or even schedutil improve the stutter? I've had succes with that on lower-power SBCs doing upsampling duties. 

Force_turbo=1 helps abit but not much

[dericchan1]

1 minute ago, roderickvd said:

Not the same thing though...

I have not tried that

[dericchan1]

51 minutes ago, soundnerdie said:

The information in these links appears to say that the force_turbo=1 setting "disables" the CPU governor.

 

https://grimore.org/lakka/overclocking_and_performance_considerations

 

https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=297478

 

 

Not sure about that but force_turbo=1 seem to help a bit for me