Audio MYTHS

[Guest]

Very interesting, can you elaborate on placement and what affects they had on the sound?

 

Any theory as to what they do?

 

This is great actually.....I have seen them on the web site for some time now but had no interest. I don't doubt that they work, I know people who use topaz stones etc. and swear by them. One person got me to try the copper couplers on my IEC inlets, low and behold they work too.

 

 

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

http://www.synergisticresearch.com/page/tesla/technology

 

My favorite part is the whole bit about Quantum Tunneling. For those of you that don't know (and why should you), QT is, in effect, the instantaneous teleportation of really small particles, like photons, through barriers believed to be impenetrable. Why does this happen? Who the f*ck knows? It's magic! Ok, it's Quantum Mechanics, but I still prefer "magic".

 

The point then is that QT can have zero effect on barriers, by definition, because the tunneling particles never touch them! Yet they enhance the sonic qualities of audio cables? Hmmm. Goes back to Scot's Second Rule of Marketing: "Never do your hiring while at a Star Trek Convention".

 

Look, I'm not saying something doesn't happen, nor that at the end of their tinkering, their cables aren't different or even better. If I had to guess, the SRT QT process (the application of 2M volts) amounts to altering the structure of the conductor (and everything else going through it) in much the same way that cryo does. I just don't know why QT had to be thrown in there, like a little bit of BAM! Magic!!! Irritating and, not to put too fine a point on it, insulting.

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

http://www.stereophile.com/artdudleylistening/listening_85/

 

Here's another example of "weird sh1t" happening. Seems to work, I just haven't a clue why.

 

[Guest]

As you might already know, QT has been done at several Universities.

 

But I am 99.99999% sure the folks at SR do not have QT technology at their disposal. Chances are they just used it as a high tech catch phrase meant to astonish the ill informed.

 

I am also sure that IF someone or some company/organization has the technology to perform predictable QT of anything, atoms or energy....the audio industry would not be the first to benefit.

 

Companies that use hype in this sort of obvious manner do more to discredit themselves in the eyes of the informed than they do to gain their trust.

 

 

 

[Suteetat]

mP you are welcome to hear Acoustic System stuffs at my apartment whenever you are in Bangkok.

There is one placement of resonator cup that I am too embarassed to have in print that works amazingly well

that is very easy to demo!

 

Now people are making fun of Synergistic Research Tesla series too. I am in deep trouble! While I don't exactly

believe in the ad campaign regarding quantum tunneling etc but again, for whatever reasons, SR Tesla cables are

really incredible and I do have a whole bunch of them in my system.

 

Luckily my front end (Vista/xxHighend/Lynx) is not voodoo science (or is it!)

 

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

You're using a Microsoft product and getting acceptable results? Definitely some black magic there.

 

But I have to say, SRT stuff might be just fine -- great even -- but my complaint isn't with the performance, it's their marketing. Total BS.

 

[Guest]

Over the past year or so I have read many posts from people who have Amarra. A certain percentage of people say they can hear no difference at all, when Amarra is On or Off. Could it be that the difference in sound with Amarra is so small that the rest is being made up as a placebo affect?

 

I don't have Amarra but I DO have a Mac and have tried other players as well as the renice tweak. All of which have an obvious difference in sound quality. For example I have yet to read one post of someone saying they can hear no difference in sound quality from using renice, or even by changing to a solid state hard drive for that matter.

 

 

 

 

[Audio_ELF]

Socrates7 stated... "It's magic! Ok, it's Quantum Mechanics, but I still prefer "magic". "

 

Well as Arthur C. Clarke stated... "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

 

Eloise

 

[Guest WATERLOGIC]

I tried Amarra, Pure vinyl and Play comparing them to Itunes under Mac.

 

To dismiss all possible system and or room acoustics influences I used

 

MacMini (2GB RAM) (and or MacPro (8GB) both 2009 issues) > M2tech >coax 75Ohm >Aqvox Dac (or Bel Canto III) > Lehmannaudio Black Cube Linear headphone amp > Sennheiser HD 800 headphones.

 

My personal opinion : Itunes is a nice player, I do not see any sonic reason using other players...

 

Nevertheless:

 

Pure vinyl, and Play do sound differently ( Play with gain off sounds loudest of all four) whereby i was really pissed off with Amarra because I hate little dirty tricks with the volume. When you switch from Itunes to Ammara in an honest quest to compare the "difference" looks this is not possible - for every time it is switched to Amarra the volume goes up. Conclusion: when Amarra plays loud sounds better then Itunes at lower volume !!??. Audiofools please do buy into this - it is a free world...

Sennheiser HD 800 & Lehman Audio Black cube linear do not lie - no snake-oil magic here. But there is snake-oil somewhere and it stinks like hell .

 

So, if you want some snake-oil make believe use Play it hurts the less being free (and switches sample rates like a charm - if this is what you want) . As for me I stick with Itunes.

 

People with Golden Ears using Amarra I am honestly eager to hear how you figured out the difference (for better or worse) ?

 

Kind Regards

 

WL

 

 

 

 

[johniboy]

i made kind of the same experience with the resonators. i was living in berlin back then and wanted some room treatment. my dealer came over with his little suitcase and put up these shiny little thingies. first i wanted to throw him right out the door but already opened a bottle of wine, so what the heck, lets have some fun.

 

those things do work. they don´t actually change the sound of your system but increase the spacial effect. i have a pretty good system and i can not claim that i "hear" my speakers but with the resonators they totally disappeared. by the way, the walls disappeared, too. it was like being there. the music surrounded you. very live like.

 

i also have a theory for this. as i read in one of the sound acoustic books, spacial information comes from a slightly delayed sound reaching your ears. if the delay of a second sound source is small enough, the brain will not identify it as a different source but will translate it into spacial information. this is the reason why it is not good to close down the first reflection point of your speaker by foams, etc. the resonators do the same thing at a certain (high) frequency. they are activated by the sound energy and emit the energy at a slightly later time point. when positioned between the speakers they act as a kind of center speaker, when positioned at the side of the listener as surround speakers. but this is just my theory. you can also start with some weirdo energy or activation of certain air molecules...

 

at the end i did not buy them. i just can not imagine having those bells worth 1000s of $s hanging on my walls. every time you shut a door or open a window, you can go and put up your bells again. no thanks! not to talk about visitors! they already shake their heads when they see the speakers or my new (and huge) accustic arts amplifier...

 

[Guest]

I tried Play, VLC, and a bunch of others like Cog etc. I liked XBMC the best.

 

But you are right, iTunes sounds best.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest WATERLOGIC]

generates better audio experience in a listening room. On a rainy day just open the windows and let the moistured air invade your listening space. You will not fail to notice the drastic improvement in sonic experience. There is a scientific explanation why is this : the lighter the air the easier the sound travels .

(dry air weight is around 29 wet air aproaching >>> 19).

See, you can achieve the same by buying a cheap humidifier ...

 

Cheers !

 

[ramagochi]

Hello,

 

--------------------

whereby i was really pissed off with Amarra because I hate little dirty tricks with the volume. When you switch from Itunes to Ammara in an honest quest to compare the "difference" looks this is not possible - for every time it is switched to Amarra the volume goes up. Conclusion: when Amarra plays loud sounds better then Itunes at lower volume !!??.

----------------------

 

I don't know what is the kind of problem that you had with Amarra, but the Amarra not changes the level in any way, is just the same level as the iTunes.

 

In the attached measure you can see that the level difference is "no difference" (Amarra purple, iTunes green).

 

Cheers

 

 

 

[akai]

Khun Suteetat, thanks for your invitation. The audio scene in Bankgok is quiet active and from glancing through a few websites, people strongly believe in tweaks of all kinds. I am one of the skeptics, with the exception of room treatments, I do not subscribe to most of the marketing hypes. Perhaps I have not had an opportunity to have myself convinced otherwise. I do like to keep an open mind except logic always get the best of me. My most skeptical products are cables (all kinds).

 

Happy New Year (assuming you are celebrating Chinese New Year in BKK).

 

mP

 

 

[Guest WATERLOGIC]

Nice Graph !

 

So What ?

 

I tried to point out the issue and you try to mesmerize me with graphs ; Well, you can not mesmerize me with graphs especially when it shows something completely different from what I described. I never said that Amarra plays louder then Itunes I just pointed out it is not possible to match the volume levels for whenever I switch to Ammara a "hidden hand" moves the volume slider up !?

 

Ok. I set the volume level at X in Ammara. I turn Ammara off . Listen to iTunes at same X position.

Switch on Amarra - the volume level jumps well over X position (i.e. much louder) ? No matter at which level - Ammara volume slider jumps over it (louder) always.

Or is this ONLY in THE DEMO Version ? If yes, I wonder why ? Also the DEMO version does not allow Sample rate change . Why Not ? . Is there a lag when this happens or something else ??

 

Cheers!

 

WL

 

[ramagochi]

Nope,

 

Isn't any kind of try of mesmerize you :-), is just a graph, the level are the same (max level on both).

 

If you want, you can try to hold the level at max in the iTunes and in the Amarra (the best match), and you could change the level on the amplifier, or dac, or anything else..., for a comfortable spl.

 

In my demo version was possible to change the sample rate (But not with all of my soundcards).

 

Cheers

 

P.S. In other hand, now I tried with the 1.2 version, I leave the volume in half and seemed like Amarra the same as iTunes (and going back to the Amarra at the same level) (I didn't measure this).

 

 

 

[Guest WATERLOGIC]

Why would I put the vol. to max. I DO NOT WANT to do this. My amp volume is always at the same level.

 

What you say means the slider in Amarra has to be put to max . Why do you need a slider then ?

And excuse me, why do you need Amarra then ?

I noticed as well Amarra can not cope with a larger library (3.5 terabytes), you cannot use iphone remote, It just seems to be a useless overhead ?

 

Those who insist sample rate switching is beautiful here is a free of charge solution :

Install Play, load files of different sample rate ( one for 41.6, one for 48, one for 88.2, on for 96 one for 176.4 and one 192 kHz) . Whenever you need to switch start appropriate file in Play , stop, than go to iTunes and play your music. Or load your whole library into Play if you prefere the loudness of Play better. Voila !

 

Snake-Oil Bussiness taking over the digital audio as well ? It very much looks like it !

 

I wonder how many of the "Golden Ears" dare to take part in a double blind test ?

 

I hope I have not damaged anybody's businness telling the truth as I see it!

 

Regards

 

WL

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Wow WL - I respect your honesty but you seem quite angry and even rude to those trying to offer free information to you.

 

I don't recommend driving your amp directly from a Mac and using the Amarra volume control this way. Sure it can be done pretty well it's just not my cup of tea. Also, Amarra has nothing to do with the size of a library. In fact it has no idea how large one's library is because it only sees the file being played through it. How does Play work when you load a 3.5 TB library? I don't think the manual switching required in Play is any better than that of standalone iTunes.

 

[Guest]

I take it that WL is not using a preamp and therefore needs to use the software volume controls. For those of us with preamps having the volume all the way up is an obvious choice and probably negates any differences in SQ between various softwares at volumes less than full gain.

 

 

 

[Guest WATERLOGIC]

I am trying to be helpful as well providing free information.

 

I prefere using the volume control in iTunes (or Iphone/Ipod Touch remote control app). //I have a top notch vintage Bedini Class A electronics (no remotes, no light-show) but sounds great. ) //

I have not seen any loss in quality doing so (pointing to: the volume control in itunes looks properly designed).

Play (the last version 0.3.1b (1105) ) switches the sample rates automatically (you have to enable it in Play's preferences !). So, switching SR is 3 mouse clicks in Play (chose app/file, start, stop) before you go back to Itunes (it can be made shorter via short applescript if this 3 mouse clicks are too much work).

 

As to Amarra, the issues I mentioned are quite irritating for me - have not seen any arguments against but just teaching me to change my behaviour to conform to a lousy computer application. (you can read again my points if you want).

As to problems with large libraries check the Amarra documentation - they themselves bring this warning, however they do not define what is a big library ?

3.5 TB library I have in Itunes (have not tried loading it into Play yet - as said I am sticking with iTunes).

Itunes have the versatility I could not find in any other player and it sounds correct. No problem with 3.5TB library whatsoever, no lag, no pause, just quick access to the music you want to play.

 

Have a Nice Day !

 

WL

 

 

[Guest WATERLOGIC]

I do use a Preamp (Bedini Pre & Power Amps) but I make use of the preamp volume control only when listening to vinyl.

Also I use the volume knob on Lehmannaudio Black cube linear headphone amp when using the Sennheiser HD 800 cans.

 

Guess what - I am controlling heating and other installations in the house remotely with a handheld computer, why should I control my music's volume manually? We are talking about computer music, aren't we ?

 

Cheers!

 

WL

 

[Guest]

I take it your preamp does not have a remote....or you just like the idea of controlling everything via computer.

 

The general consensus is using the computer or software volume reduces bits and therefore degrades sound quality. Maybe this is why most people leave their software at 100%.

 

 

 

 

[Christopher]

It’s been suggested that adding humidity to your listening environment will be a “drastic improvement in sonic experience.” So that I do not misquote, or take anything out of context, below is the full quote for your reference:

 

***start quote***

I have not tried the resonators but there is something that...

generates better audio experience in a listening room. On a rainy day just open the windows and let the moistured air invade your listening space. You will not fail to notice the drastic improvement in sonic experience. There is a scientific explanation why is this : the lighter the air the easier the sound travels .

(dry air weight is around 29 wet air aproaching >>> 19).

See, you can achieve the same by buying a cheap humidifier ...

***end quote***

 

Before you run out and buy a humidifier as a sonic tweak, please read the attached document by Dennis Bohn called Environmental Effects on the Speed of Sound (J. Audio Eng. Soc., Vol. 36, No. 4, 1988 April). For what it’s worth, he’s a member of the Audio Engineering Society (AES) and the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE).

 

Below is an excerpt from Bohn’s Summary Section at the end of the paper (please read the entire paper for context):

 

***start quote***

Environmental effects change the velocity and the absorption of sound in air. Even seemingly small percentage changes may cause serious listening problems in enclosed acoustic spaces. If room alignments down to tenths of an inch are to be meaningful, temperature and humidity should be controlled tightly. Fractional changes in the wavelengths of frequencies traveling thousands of cycles can easily result in 180° phase reversal upon arrival.

 

No matter how small the change in the temperature, no matter how slight the humidity shift, the waves arrive shifted in phase and the resultant combination differs from the original. It will not be the way it was when the room was equalized. Not only will the waves’ phase be shifted, but for higher frequencies their magnitudes will be different due to the changes in absorption.

***end quote***

 

I choose to believe that CA members share information with the best of intentions. Frankly, it’s hard to believe that any member would post advice knowing that the recommendation is false and/or misleading. This being said, even the best of intentions can sometimes result in misleading advice.

 

For instance, it’s true that replacing nitrogen and oxygen with water vapor decreases the weight of air per cubic foot. As the density of air decreases, sound will travel faster with less absorption and divergence. However, this is not necessarily a good thing in our listening rooms.

 

Air is a medium that absorbs sound, and when sound waves spread throughout the medium they reduce in intensity. Generally speaking, sound pressure levels decrease 6 dB for each doubling of distance. This is because of the divergence and absorption caused by air. As sound waves spread throughout air, they are being absorbed and, in a sense, dying. If this were not the case, every sound would live forever and we would only hear dissonance and cacophony.

 

By replacing nitrogen and oxygen with water vapor, i.e., increasing humidity, we are also decreasing the sound absorbing properties of air. If you want a listening environment that is less reflective with better sound absorbing characteristics, then I think it’s fair to say that you do not want a humid listening room. Below is another quote from Environmental Effects on the Speed of Sound:

 

***start quote***

Complicating things further is the change in absorption due to the change in relative humidity.

 

The point of all this is that even a small percentage change in the speed of sound can have disastrous effects on a sound system. Often overlooked is that the small percentage change is for every cycle undergone by the wave. It is a trap to think of the change as only a few percent and dismiss it. Think of the hundreds and thousands of cycles existing within any sound room. Each one has its wavelength altered by this percentage. If a 1% change affects hundreds of cycles, it alters the acoustics of the whole system. No wonder that all those hours spent equalizing are sometimes in vain.

***end quote***

 

I must admit that the humidifier myth is creative and intriguing. However, I won’t be opening my windows on a rainy day or adding a humidifier with the expectation of sonic improvement. And, on a slightly different, yet related note...call it a practical consideration...something tells me that prolonged exposure to moisture may not be the best for electronics. All things considered, I won’t be adding a humidifier to my kit.

 

Best regards,

Chris

 

 

 

 

[ramagochi]

Hello,

---------------------------

The general consensus is using the computer or software volume reduces bits and therefore degrades sound quality. Maybe this is why most people leave their software at 100%.

---------------------------

 

In my case, I have a integrated amplifier and I'm using the integrated volume control (I don't have the need of a software attenuation).

 

But, if you use a heavy digital attenuation without a proper dither you can degrade the sound.

 

Cheers

 

[Guest WATERLOGIC]

I never went that deep into the air matter, also I think you did not get my "humidifier" sarcasm as it was intended. My point is there are to many variables to achieve the perfect listening environment i.e. I could spend a life time checking how long a window should be left open to be just right. Fact is air density is audiable.

 

Still, spending quite some time in concert halls, opera halls, churches, jazz clubs listening to all kinds of music I never have seen anybody checking the humidity of the air and the music still sounds great on most occasions.

 

I think a nice analogy is the human activity inflicted CO2 hysteria. C02 being blamed for global warming ?

Backed by official "science" . People getting Nobel prizes for that ? This is outrageous .

Just think : take the weight of the planetary system : the Sun is 99,85% of the total 100% mass the rest are the planets, minor planets , comets, meteorites. The earth is just a small dot compared to the Sun and yet this dot can make a difference ?? Again, too many planetary and galaxy systems variables but people still do believe and swear they know that the major factor is CO2 ? (I personally believe more CO2, better for mother Earth).

 

Kind Regards

 

WL