Schiit EITR

[Abtr]

12 hours ago, Charente said:

I have been listening to the Topping D10s for the last few days and to-ing fro-ing between that and the Hecate/DeLock (described earlier). Theoretically the D10s should have an advantage by eliminating the coax cable to the DeLock converter, all other things being equal.

 

I find the D10s (as a DDC) a smooth sounding device but for me it’s just too smooth, too polite … at least to my ears and headphone setup (Gungnir MB > Gilmore Lite Mk2 > Aeon Flow Open). 

 

The Hecate/DeLock has a weightier sound with more attack and yet still smooth enough for a refined listening experience. To my ears/brain vocals have more realism, piano notes strike more convincingly, and tom-toms have a more satisfying kick and ring to them. Low bass is a bit more defined. Ambience/airiness is more present. These nuance differences are small but enough to notice.

 

So, for me, the Hecate/DeLock remain in my chain as the source.

 

That's a surprising result. I revisited the Hecate/Delock combo but in my setup and to my ears the Toslink-out of the Topping definitely sounds more refined with better bass.. Possibly your LPS-1 and LPSU25 make a difference relative to my Zerozone power supplies. Did you try Topping coax-out + Delock?

[Abtr]

6 hours ago, Charente said:

The Topping Toslink direct to GMB certainly sounds smoother (softer ?), so perhaps it's just my preference for a bit more 'bite' to the sound.

 

Yes, I tried various permutations. Topping D10s/DeLock ... the soundstage sounds like it's moved back some distance, and less dynamic feel overall. In fact, I preferred D10s coax RCA/BNC direct to GMB over D10s/DeLock.

Very interesting. What you experience as more 'bite' and 'attack', may be what I experience as 'less refined'.. I'm listening to speakers (KEF LS50 + sub), no headphones. In my setup I find the Topping's Toslink output sounding better than any DDC/Delock configuration regarding basically all aspects of the sound, including perceived dynamics..

 

Did you perhaps A-B the coax output versus Toslink output of the D10s without disconnecting the coax output when listening to the Toslink output? A connected coax output would defeat the optical/galvanic isolation between D10s and DAC that Toslink provides, and it would be audible.

[Abtr]

On 8/23/2020 at 11:11 PM, Charente said:

...

Personal preference may be the decider here. Or, simply some system differences.

 

Regardless which sounds better, Eitr/Delock, Hecate/Delock or Topping, and in which system, it continues to amaze me how audible the differences between these configurations are. There are only two possible mechanisms that can account for this. First, electrical USB noise causing timing issues which result in audible jitter in the optical signal to the DAC, and second, different levels or types of radiated EMI might be picked up by the DAC and ultimately distort the analog output.

 

Out of curiosity I inserted an Intona USB isolator after the computer USB source and before the USB to optical conversion. Apart from the Intona unit, this involves an extra USB cable. The result sounded relatively dull and lifeless. How can this happen, the USB powered Intona 'only' provides additional galvanic isolation? Either the Intona introduces its own brand of HF noise on its USB output causing some kind of audible jitter in the DDC-ed optical signal to the DAC, and/or the Intona and extra USB cable radiate EMI which upsets some of the other equipment.

 

Since these phenomena are so clearly audible, I suppose the differences must be measurable at the DAC's output as some form of analog distortion. I think I might try to measure and define this myself. Anyway, in my setup with the ADI-2 DAC, I now definitely prefer the Topping USB > Toslink converter over Hecate/Delock and Eitr/Delock. Hecate/Delock is a close second to my ears..

[Abtr]

On 8/23/2020 at 11:11 PM, Charente said:

... I'm sure when I first started I didn't have the coax connected at all, just Toslink. That's what I focused on initially. But I'll re-do the test next day or so to make sure.

...

@Charente I hope everything is OK.. It's not quite like you to not follow up on a test you said you will do..

[Abtr]

57 minutes ago, Charente said:

... clearly there must be something beyond the source components that are causing this hearing disparity ...

Yes, it seems so.. What power supply did you use for the Topping D10s, the LPS-1? Did you try the LPS25?

[Abtr]

19 hours ago, audiobomber said:

I used the Topping P50 LPS with the D50S.

When you use the D10S as a DDC (I personally didn't even try the DAC ) the unit simply buffers, clocks out, and converts a USB/PCM data stream to Toslink. Yet, a decent 5V LPS significantly improves SQ relative to regular USB power from a MacMini and two 5V SMPSs that I tried..

[Abtr]

16 hours ago, Charente said:

I tried the Audiophonics LPSU25 power supply connected to the Topping D10s, as well as to the Hecate (before you ask @Abtr 🙂). 

 

Surprisingly, I prefer the D10s with the LPSU25 overall (versus with the UpTone LPS-1)... although I found the bass guitar chord-tones a bit easier to follow on the Hecate/LPSU25. They were that bit clearer and sounded less muted (softened ?) through the Aeons.

 

So, the attack/bite margin has closed between Hecate/LPS-1 and D10s/LPSU25 .... Not, however, the ambience/airiness. Ambience has more presence on the Hecate/LPS-1, especially when listening to performances in larger venues ... the echo/decay is more noticeable than on the D10s/LPSU25. Similarly, airiness around instruments is more notable, particularly on acoustic jazz, providing a fine 'delicacy' to the notes and improving the overall quality of the sound-stage. I've done a lot of to-ing and fro-ing and played through quite a few different albums of good recording quality to cross-check my results. To my ears this remains my preferred source.

...

I assume you are referring to Hecate/PS + Delock/PS versus direct Toslink from D10s/PS. Just some questions. How did you power the Delock in combination with Hecate/LPSU25? And did you plug in the LPS-1 and LPSU25 before or after your Airlink mains isolation transformer? I used to plug in the SMPS of the LPS-1 before the Airlink and any LPS goes after the Airlink. When I tested Hecate/Delock I used 2 LPSs and found that D10s (with LPS) sounds best in my setup.

 

Our different results may come down, as you said earlier, to personal preference and/or overall system differences (especially your Schiit, versus my RME DAC), but since power supply is crucial, I may try a (used) LPS-1 and/or LPSU25 before concluding anything..  

[Abtr]

29 minutes ago, Charente said:

...

I no longer have the Airlink on my headphone setup. I have instead used iFi AC iPurifier. ...

Do you think the iFi AC iPurifier sounds better than the Airlink?

[Abtr]

1 hour ago, Charente said:

No, I don't think it is better ... the Airlink is performing service with my Naim Mu-so 2 speaker setup, where it makes a big difference. But the iPurifier is certainly better than straight mains.

Yes, I think you mentioned this before. It's a difference between our systems that might account for the dissimilar results..

[Abtr]

10 hours ago, Charente said:

I do intend to get another Airlink transformer at some point, as they make such a worthwhile difference. I'm glad we found that solution through our discourse in the past. I seem to recall you did a mod to yours which I felt was beyond my capabilities ... I'm a software person and avoid 'hardware' issues when people ask for advice ... and certainly steer clear of anything electrical or electronic. 🙂

Yes, that was a DC-blocker which I still use. You can also buy one assembled like this:

https://www.atlhifi.com/shop/fully-assembled-devices/dc-blocker-trap-filter-assembled-in-case/

If there is no DC component in your AC mains it will do nothing, otherwise it may reduce transformer hum.

[Abtr]

11 hours ago, Charente said:

BTW ... where are you based ?

I live in the Netherlands.

[Abtr]

Regarding my results with the Topping D10s's optical output, I must say that in my setup there's a buildup of static charge in the 5V power supply or the PS/D10s combination. When, after the system has been on for some time, I touch the metal connector (minus terminal) of the power cable to the 5V USB power injection, then the D10s loses its USB connection. Disconnecting and reconnecting the USB input restores the connection but some high current discharge induced the disconnection.

 

To remedy this problem, I connected the minus terminal of the PS output to mains ground/earth, with a 100K Ohm resistor in series to decouple PS input and output ground. This solves it and IMO improves SQ, though the latter may be a matter of personal preference. BTW, I noticed the same problem of static charge buildup with the PS/Delock combination..

[Abtr]

So I connected the 5V LPS of the Topping directly to the mains power, i.e., before my Airlink BPS1502EU balanced isolation transformer. There is no USB disconnect when I touch -V5, yet SQ is better when I connect the -5V terminal to mains ground/earth through a series resistor. IME, however, SQ is superior with the LPS connected to the Airlink and -5V connected to balanced ground (null), again through a series resistor (100K Ohm is about optimal) :

 

 

 

 

I'm still puzzled regarding the mechanism(s) underlying the static charge buildup and the SQ improvement with -5V grounding.. 

 

 

[Abtr]

On 9/12/2020 at 3:59 PM, audiobomber said:

The AC Purifier only provides a very small improvement to any individual component, but provides that tiny improvement to everything that is plugged into the same circuit. I use an AC Purifier in my main system, plugged into a Furman power conditioner, with all my front end gear.

According to some, the iFi Audio AC iPurifier Active Noise Filter is snake oil and it even appears to inject noise into the mains..

 

https://www.audio “science” review/forum/index.php?threads/so-has-anyone-measured-how-the-ifi-audio-ac-purifier-is-supposed-to-work.10243/

 

 

 

[Abtr]

41 minutes ago, audiobomber said:

ASR is a bad joke, I couldn't care less what they say.

 

I heard a very minor improvement when I added the AC Purifier to my main system, so I continue to use it. I do not intend to add any more to this system, nor use one in my other systems. 

 

The video shows that the unit needs to be grounded or it injects noise. That is not a surprising result, as it is designed to be grounded. The North American version is three-prong.

Not sure about ASR.. The video shows that the iPurifier injects less noise into the mains when it is grounded, but the least noise is registered when the unit is disconnected from the mains.

[Abtr]

I happen to have a noise detection device similar to the one used in the video. It basically transforms high frequency mains noise into audible frequencies. When I plug it directly into a wall socket, the noise sounds very much like the noise in the video. When I plug it into the AC output of my Airlink isolation transformer there is no audible noise, except for a very low level hiss which may even come from the detection device itself.

 

Note that the Airlink has a foil screen between the primary and secondary windings that is connected to ground. This significantly reduces the coupling of leakage currents and EMI/RFI currents. Moreover, the AC output is balanced (115V - 0 - 115V) which inherently has a high level of common mode noise rejection.

[Abtr]

16 hours ago, audiobomber said:

The official response is on the iFi website: https://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/faq.php?id=803. Seems reasonable to me

The power tester in question may not in the traditional sense measure noise?? I don’t understand a word of this. So the AC iPurifier draws current with a 100 Hz frequency. The injected noise demonstrated in the video is of much higher frequency. Where does that come from?

[Abtr]

3 hours ago, JoeWhip said:

For those interested in the Eitr, the upcoming transport will act as a new Unison usb based Eitr. Expensive ($1299) for that to be sure with the added issue of being usb c.

Will it have a (Unison) USB input?