Amir at ASR claims Uptone won't sell the ISO regen to him...

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6 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Since we know that in all other respects the more expensive DAC must be better. 

 

Not saying that at all. What I am saying is that in all respects we know that $800 makes available more DAC's for evaluation and choose from. Some even are Ethernet devices that obliterate the problem child USB bus for a much more stable connection. 

 

I'd put the $320 I paid for my Stealth DC-1 up against your combo any day of the week. 

 

Now if you want to have a dialectic about $349 + $655 in upstream gadgetry vs $1000 spent in some other fashion well I'm all up for that. 

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17 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Just spent eight hours over the last few days troubleshooting an Ethernet audio issue from 1,500 miles away. After exhausting all feasible solutions, we switched to the USB connection in the same DAC and music has been playing for 8 hours without a hiccup. 

 

I love Ethernet audio when I have 100% control over the network. I'm using it as I type this. When another company installs and controls several switches and APs, and I only control a single dedicated switch for audio, problems can mount and turn into a cluster "F" trying to track them down (and dealing with stereotypical IT guys who say the network is perfect).

 

Part of the issue is how vendors CoughAurelicCough approach setup to be honest. The best way is to:

 

1. Assign a static IP from the factory something like 192.168.168.168

2. Standard web interface for managing this. 

 

If vendors figured this out it would go much smoother. I've helped two members resolve their Ethernet connected end points and both have been improper network configuration (no fault of the vendor) and really screwy and over complicated setup routine for the device in question (certainly a fault of the vendor). 

 

In both cases in 10 minutes I had the causal root nailed down. 

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10 minutes ago, Daudio said:

 

Maybe nothing that would work in Court, but a strong supposition, that is likely enough. And his bias is evident from many of his writings. But, regardless, his improper testing procedures have been uncovered, so his intent doesn't really matter, his output is simply untrustworthy.

 

 

As far as I'm aware: if Amir has been made aware of issues WRT measurements he corrects them if they indeed need corrected. 

 

Now as is typical of me I'm going to ask for links to any current measurements that Amir is standing by at the moment that are incorrect. And as is typical no linkage will be forthcoming. 

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2 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Sure, fair point.  At that price point I'd be interested in the TEAC stuff.

 

 

I think to some degree the problems with USB are a combination of popularity and people seeking ever-better performance.  I would guess if/when Ethernet becomes popular we might see something along similar lines.

 

 

I'm very glad you're happy with your system.  I like playing with filters/modulators, so my DAC works nicely for that.

 

 

What gizmos are you referring to at those price points?

ISO Regen and a Power Supply...

 

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3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

@plissken

 

Some of his measurements and narrative are similar to this example, make sure you read the entire thing and come back often to see if it has been updated / corrected.

 

 

 

 

CLIMATE CHANGE IS A HOAX

CLIMATE CHANGE IS A HOAX

CLIMATE CHANGE IS A HOAX

CLIMATE CHANGE IS A HOAX

CLIMATE CHANGE IS A HOAX

CLIMATE CHANGE IS A HOAX

 

 

 

 

 

just received info from scientific community ...

 

 

i guess it's real.

 

 

 

 

If people are saying the measurements are problematic then there should be no problem linking to it. I'm able to generally provide links to papers and files when I'm talking about those particulars. 

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5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

What I was trying to demonstrate with my example, was someone who takes measurements and screams at the top of his lungs about faulty equipment. Then, after people point out errors in the measurements, techniques, or analysis, the articles are updates without much fanfare. 

 

You can't unring a bell. 

 

Got it. Still he updates the OP with any updates and addendum. I think a way of combating this is for manufacturers, like Emotiva, to perform and post their own measurements. 

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1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I agree, measurements posted by manufacturers would be good. I don't think everyone would believe those measurements though. 

 

Perhaps a technical editor could be used before publishing potentially damaging claims. 

 

Again, the best defense against slander is the truth. As long as the measurements are done in a way to enable 3rd parties and they achieve the same results then things are copacetic. 

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Just now, christopher3393 said:

 

 

But is it always practical? And do the results from available testing always indicate to the potential listener what value the product may have? 

 

If you are in the business of designing audio equipment I should expect so. You can either get the equipment in house or you can send out product to a lab for measurement.

 

So let me ask this:

 

Is it acceptable for a company to design with a shoot from the hip approach where they actually have no way to analyze what their equipment is doing? 

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26 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

I'm seeing $310 for the ISO Regen without power supply, $325 with switching supply, and $655 total for an ISO Regen bundled together with an ultracapacitor power supply.

 

I'm taking my queue from your signature as to what it is taking you to get the most out of a $349 DAC. It's not the way I would allocate my budget. Everyone's MMV 

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1 minute ago, christopher3393 said:

 

Loaded question. "Shoot from the hip": is that a fair characterization?

 

Ok. A shot in the dark. Better? 

 

Let me ask you this: How are you going to convince anyone with reasonable intelligence that you can design audiophile product in a vacuum. That is absent any ability to measure the analog output? 

 

Please make the argument that they were able to do it by ear. I dare you. 

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1 minute ago, mansr said:

Would you prefer the term "stab in the dark"?

 

You beat me to it by seconds. Ninja. 

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5 minutes ago, christopher3393 said:

 

Sardonic points, yes, but I think it is exaggerated and an unfair, highly biased characterization.

 

It's not biased! They don't have any audio centric measurement gear. It's like designing a speaker by ear with no Klippel gear. 

 

My general thought is product that can be measured whilst in the midst of being designed tends to end up being a better product. I know I'm the outlier for thinking that way. 

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1 minute ago, jhwalker said:

 

I *really* wish you'd stop making this claim - you're wrong.

 

The latest Internet "wayback machine" capture of the products page is from November of 2016 - you're right, it wasn't there then (hint:  the ISO Regen *page* was not even there then)!  But the information *was* there as of 30 May (still cached at Google as of that date), which was well before you started complaining about it not being there a few days ago.

 

Basically, you're calling Alex a liar, and that's not fair or true.

 

I was the one to first bring it up. As of the last time I check the site months ago there was zero text about a 30 day MBG. 

 

Look dude, it is what it is. I'm glad it's there now. 

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I'm going to go with what John Swenson said about cable length: Keep it at 3 feet and under and you won't have problems that need to be addressed WRT to signal integrity. 

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1 minute ago, semente said:

 

If I understand it correctly the Regen regenerates data and provides clean power in a USB connection; to an uneducated computer end-user like myself this seems like a step in the right direction.

 

The next question is: does the Regen solve a "real" problem or an "imaginary" one?

 

And even though I wouldn't mind giving it a listen I would like to see some measurements.

The problem is that the necessary measurements have apparently not yet been conceived...

 

The claim is improved analog output via the path of increased S.I. It is what it is. Plus I already posted an Eye pattern from Tektronix showing very clean output without use of a regen product from 2009. 

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Here is what I read to get a dusting over of USB Eye Patterns:

 

https://dl.cdn-anritsu.com/en-us/test-measurement/files/Application-Notes/Application-Note/11410-00533.pdf

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3 minutes ago, semente said:

 

What would you be able to determine by measuring the analogue output?

 

Which parameters would be affected?

That is a question for Uptone. What parameters do they claim to be effecting? 

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11 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Jud is unaware of what you are talking about, and would appreciate clarification.

 

How much time you got

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1 minute ago, Jud said:

 

Yes, John conspired to be laid off from his job, retire, and do an interstate move just to avoid this.

 

This particular point was made when the original regen went on market and Alex was stating they sold 2000 regens. I'm not sure what the profit margin nor their overhead is. But 2000 X $10 is enough to purchase equipment meant for the this industry.

 

This has nothing to do with John moving.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

So you measure analog differences and then the next question is, are they audible?  Too bad no one's done objective, unbiased listening tests on the ISO Regen - oh, wait....

 

John Atkinson measured the Regen and the included power supply actually made the measurements worse but I think it was below -120dB so not audible. 

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2 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

How many commercial audio products have you designed?

 

Most likely zero and somehow he makes a good point.

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1 minute ago, kumakuma said:

 

Zero as well but, unlike the two of you armchair quarterbacks, I'm not the one lecturing others on how to do their jobs or run their business. 

 

I'm not lecturing. I've made a suggesting based on what I see for most other site: a site navigational footer.

 

I'm critiquing the creation approach of audio products by a firm that is doing so blindly.

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51 minutes ago, AJ Soundfield said:

Forgive me for being a bit dense, but I'm still trying to envision a configuration for having this device in and out of the signal path between source/DAC (per manufacturer site) to allow rapid switching (assuming same voltage output from DAC).

Ideas welcome.

 

In Windows, with a lot of sound cards, you can enable 'Stereo Mix' and output the same stream to two sound cards simultaneously. Feed both cards outputs into A/B inputs on a preamp and switch from there. 

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I would still like to see if a GTG is doable. While we are a dispersed group I wonder if a # of us are in driving distance of a member that could host. I'm in the KentuckyIndy area.

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27 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Do you think it would be fair to say you are skeptical of the ways and means that have been offered in explanation, rather than that they are totally unspecified?

 

You mean as in 'guessing'?