DIY DC power cables

[asdf1000]

6 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

The 4S6 has a solid red, clear red, white and clear wires. The two red wires are connected together and the white and clear are connected together.

 

John S.

 

Hi John, will the DC plugs with screw-in terminals fit next to the USPCB, for both the USB REGEN and ISO REGEN?

 

Those DC plugs are quite large compared to a normal cable plug and may clash with the USPCB or even clash with the cheap hard adapter, side by side?

 

Cheers

[asdf1000]

Just now, Cornan said:

 

Thanks, I just ordered 10ft from the same supplier!

Go away all of you. They're going to be out of stock soon and I'll miss out :-)

 

[asdf1000]

4 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

Yes the DC plug with the screw terminals fits nicely on any of the REGENs with the USPCB.

 

You are going to have to bend the wire down very sharply if you want to avoid hitting the device the USPCB is plugged into. This is assuming you are using the USBCB on the upstream side of the REGEN (which is the side with the DC in jack. If the USPCB is on the downstream side (connected to the DAC) then there is no issue since the only thing on that endplate is the downstream USB jack.

 

John S.

 

Cheers John

[asdf1000]

6 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

Yes the DC plug with the screw terminals fits nicely on any of the REGENs with the USPCB.

 

You are going to have to bend the wire down very sharply if you want to avoid hitting the device the USPCB is plugged into. This is assuming you are using the USBCB on the upstream side of the REGEN (which is the side with the DC in jack. If the USPCB is on the downstream side (connected to the DAC) then there is no issue since the only thing on that endplate is the downstream USB jack.

 

John S.

 

Btw if you're wondering why I'm using the USPCB upstream of the ISO REGEN, I have a Chord Mojo Dac. So I need to keep using my Curious microUSB downstream.

 

Any plans for a microUSPCB for Chord Mojo / Hugo / Hugo2 / most DAP's ? I did ask in another thread but didn't get a reply.

 

Cheers, Sean

[asdf1000]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

This reminds me of diving, gymnastics, or figure skating.

 

We call this one the "Reverse Intona," with a degree of difficulty of 3.5/4. 

 

 

Hilarious 

[asdf1000]

On 5/5/2017 at 10:26 AM, JohnSwenson said:

OK here it is: cable shielding, how to make it work and how almost all cables have it wrong.

 

You may wind wind up with static charges on the shielding so a resistance from the shield to ground may be useful in some cases in order to dissipate static charges.

 

Hi @JohnSwenson

 

Some very silly questions below but appreciate if you can help me to better understand this before I give it an attempt (I'm making some XLR and RCA cables using the Belden 1804A cable).

 

Rather than PM you more questions, I thought it's best to post here to save you from getting the same questions from others.

 

1. With the external wire, are there any special requirements or things to note for the wire to use? A recommended wire gauge or particular conductor material? 

 

2. This external wire doesn't itself need to be shielded, does it? 

 

3. Is it best to solder this external wire to the shield at each end?

 

4. Do the potential static charges you mentioned affect audio? And how would you recommend to best add a resistance from the shield to ground? In particular with making up XLR and RCA cables with this method.

 

Many thanks in advance

 

[asdf1000]

11 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

#1:

no special requirement

 

Can someone please induct @JohnSwensoninto the HiFi and Computer Based Audio Halls of Fame please.

 

Thanks heaps John.

[asdf1000]

1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said:

IF you use the shielding topology I recommend it works spectacularly well.

 

Thanks so much again @JohnSwenson

 

I'm trying your shielding topology with BJC Cat 6a ethernet also (easy to modify because it's already got a floating shield in place).

 

Rather than chat via PM it's probably best to ask here, to save you from answering the same questions from 100 people.

 

I've happily sacrificed one of my unused BJC Cat 6a ethernet cables for learning purposes.

 

From the photos attached, it looks to be the foil type shield ? If I understood correctly, if the ethernet cable has a foil type shield then I'd need to cut through the foil and find the drain wire - then, the external wire would then be soldered to this drain wire.

 

But as I cut through the foil and then through the white insulation I don't see any drain wire - I only see 4 twisted pairs of conductors.

 

Am I missing something obvious?

 

Since I can't see a drain wire, would the external wire simply need to be soldered to the foil shield that's visible?

 

Many thanks again

 

 

 

 

 

[asdf1000]

6 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Em2016, the BJC CAT6a already has a floating shield and no ground wire per John's recommended design. I learned this when I pulled several runs of 100 plus feet and had to terminate the cable ends myself.

 

Thanks Imitche. Yes the floating shield takes care of stopping leakage currents but my understanding is the floating shielding can still benefit from John's recommended external wire mod. I'm just looking for clarification of where to solder the external wire, since I can't see the drain wire under the foil shield.

 

Let's wait for clarification from @JohnSwenson whenever he gets a spare minute

[asdf1000]

Hi @JohnSwenson

 

Is there a recommended AC mains cable that can be used with your shielding method?

 

And recommendations for how to wire it up?

 

Or is shielded AC power cables less of an issue, compared with DC power cables and interconnects?

 

Cheers

[asdf1000]

6 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

this is the closest to what I would build myself.

 

John S for the win, once again! Thanks John.

 

And I've just seen one of the reasons why you may like it - star quad geometry. I've been trying to find a star quad mains cables. And no shield to potentially mess anything up (if not done correctly).

[asdf1000]

10 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

Ghent ?

 

Do you know if he has he made progress on the ethernet cable design?

[asdf1000]

Just now, Ryelands said:

In passing, pinching John's "isolated screen" recipe

 

Thanks for sharing. I'm getting someone to make me a pair of XLR's with John's recipe (the Beldens that he recommended). Can't wait to have have them in a week or so.

 

I don't have the tools otherwise I would have tried myself but definitely should invest in some soldering gear - long overdue.

 

[asdf1000]

Hi John @JohnSwenson

 

Regarding the cheap and super effective 'external wire' mod you kindly shared earlier, for existing shielded cables:

 

I don't think anyone has actually ask yet but what does the external wire actually do and how does it make a cables existing shield do it's job properly?

 

I kind of get the phono cable example you gave but could you explain for say, a digital cable like a shielded USB or shielded ethernet cable.

 

Cheers, Sean

 

[asdf1000]

6 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

This approach of an external end to end wire will work well with Ethernet. You can get the advantage of shielding without having to connect the shield to the boxes cpossibly creating a leakage loop.

 

Hi John

 

As usual, thanks so much for sharing. On ethernet, will this external end to end wire result in no leakage loops, only if using a floating shield design, like the Belden 10GX series Cat6a?

 

Or even with end to end fully shielded ethernet cables?

 

I thought if you had an end to end shielded ethernet cable, like many of these fully shielded Cat7 and Cat8 ethernet cables out there, then even with the external wire added, you may still have leakage loops through the shield?

 

[asdf1000]

On 6/14/2017 at 1:22 AM, Daudio said:

so here goes my attempt:

As electromagnetic waves intersect the cables shield

 

Thanks heaps Dave! 

 

Are you able to share your thoughts on my question above, regarding ethernet cables.

 

If you have one of these new Cat7 or Cat8 cables that are shielded end to end, does adding this external wire also break leakage loops? Or do you still need a floating shield to break leakage loops?

 

John mentioned "an external end to end wire will work well with Ethernet. You can get the advantage of shielding without having to connect the shield to the boxes possibly creating a leakage loop."

 

Do you think that applies to any shielded ethernet cable? Or does that comment actually apply to unshielded ethernet cables?

 

Cheers in advance, Sean

 

[asdf1000]

11 minutes ago, Daudio said:

BUT, (if you're still reading)

 

Ha thanks Dave. It's embarrassing for me to admit, but that was genuinely riveting reading ! 

I should be ok (I think) with how to break leakage loops because the BJC Cat 6a is a floating shield (I learnt from Alex and John) so I learnt from them that takes care of breaking leakage loops. It was just John's comment "You can get the advantage of shielding without having to connect the shield to the boxes possibly creating a leakage loop." where I wasn't sure if that comment was referring to all fully shielded ethernet cables or unshielded cables or only cables like the BJC Cat 6a with the floating shield. Hopefully John will chime in as you say, whenever he gets a free minute or two.

 

Sorry, my mistake regarding 'end to end shielding': for this I meant where the end connectors are both connected to the shield - which is common with a lot of audiophile Cat7 and Cat8 cables now. But this doesn't apply to the BJC Cat 6a obviously, since the shield isn't connected to the end connectors at all.

 

I'm super interested in how you go with your BJC Cat 6a cable for your client. Is it just this straight external wire modification that you are doing or any other modification?

 

But I definitely do appreciate that you haven't spent too much time thinking about ethernet until recently because it hasn't been part of your system. So I don't want to press you too much on ethernet of course. But if you can share how you go with your client's BJC Cat 6a modification, that would be great reading and learning.

 

Thanks again and I greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience!

 

Cheers, Sean

 

[asdf1000]

18 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

If the shield ends are not connected to anything (such as the BJC CAT6A) then adding the external wire will not change that, thus preventing a leakage loop. If the shield ends ARE connected to the devices then a leakage loop can form, the external wire does not change this.

 

Thanks heaps John, I thought this was the case but in your previous reply I didn't see any mention of the BJC Cat6a (or other similar where the shield ends aren't connected to anything else). Crystal clear now.

 

I haven't seen any Cat7 or Cat8 shielded ethernet cables where the shields are NOT connected to anything else (they could be out there), so I will stick with the BJC Cat6a for your external wire mod. The BJC is very reasonable priced and well made too.

[asdf1000]

On 6/8/2017 at 1:58 AM, R1200CL said:

I got my "JSSG" USB cable today. 

One week from order to deliver. Impressive ?

 

And the cable looks looks very nice. The shield return cable is covered by a cohere by a transparent " tube". 

 

Time to test.

 

How did it sound ! :-)

 

Can you share some more pics of the cable overall.

 

Is he planning to add these modified cables to his website?

 

Cheers

[asdf1000]

I actually recently asked a well known cable maker about this type of design and they said they had considered this design some years ago but mentioned their own cable and shielding design (which doesn't have an external wire) resulted in a "slightly" (their words, not mine) better SNR in testing. I have to trust their word on that but you never know.

 

But the price difference between their cable and the Belden 1840A John recommended me (nearly 50x !!) was a no-brainer (easy decision) for me to go with the Belden 1840A cable with external end to end wire, for a "slightly" worse SNR (if that's true)...

 

I should have those Belden 1840A XLR's soon! Can't wait.

 

[asdf1000]

53 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Do you think using a dual star quad design where you only utilize the 10/100 will make any sense ?

 

What's the correct way to do a starquad arrangement with ethernet cables? Is there a correct way? 

 

Cheers

 

[asdf1000]

6 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

Don't even think about starquad and Ethernet. High frequency stuff is quite complicated to get right, I would just let the cable experts do it. The only possible thing I would consider is the shielding with an external wire and don't use the connectors that connect shield, thus preventing leakage loops and having good shielding.

 

John S.

 

Thanks John. I thought Belden knew a thing or two about making ethernet cables! Thanks for clarifying, for all.

 

On the BJC Cat6a , BJC noted to be careful with soldering to the shield as "the iron may damage the insulation next to the particular pair that happens to be closest to the heat source, and in turn it will change the bonded & twisted pair geometry, causing that pair to fall out of spec and not pass certification."

 

For those of us not so skilled with the soldering iron (ME) it's just something to maybe consider 

 

[asdf1000]

On 5/30/2017 at 2:51 PM, JohnSwenson said:

#3:

Yes, solder the external wire to the shield at each end. Connect to pin 1 at both ends for XLR. SOME configurations may not need the pin 1 connection, but assume you need it to begin with.

 

Hey John @JohnSwenson

 

Could you kindly elaborate more on this, as in examples of configurations that may not need the XLR pin 1 connection?

 

Would an example be where you have both the DAC and the Amp, both with a fully balanced topology? And in this case the external wire isn't needed? Or is there still benefit.

 

Appreciated in advance, Sean

 

[asdf1000]

49 minutes ago, jamesg11 said:

Is that 'external wire' the same concept as on my Curious usb cables?

 

Hi Jim, I think the Curious USB cable external wire is different, but could easily be wrong (as usual)

 

Explained here: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/curious/3.html

 

"Once I settled on the conductors—high purity silver—it was on to the insulation materials. And so on. I then moved to the 5V power leg and onto the ground leg. Testing a huge range of conductors and materials, two interesting factors arose. 1/ shielding.  A lot of manufacturers go to extraordinary lengths to shield their data lines. In the main, this is done to prevent radiated noise from the 5V power leg and the ground leg from interfering with the data lines. Plus, we have EMI and RFI from the environment that may cause upset. However, all the shielding I tested produced an inferior sound. The cure was worse than the malady. How to solve this problem?  Instead of shielding the data lines, I decided to shield the 5V power leg (and remove it from the vicinity) and shield the ground. I then let the USB receiver chip do the rest. As you know, data via USB is carried as a differential signal. A mirror image of the signal travels down each data leg and is summed at the receiver chip, effectively removing noise. In this respect, the USB cable design is very similar to an analog balanced cable. 2/ the ground leg. The physical and electrical relationship between data lines and ground is extremely important. A lot of time went into this part of the design. Bottom line, the Curious was developed from the ground up based on listening tests at each step. The objective was to unlock the purity and dimensionality that digital files are capable of providing."

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7 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

The 6moons writers are all poets, artists or dreamers, so don't put much stock in anything technical that they write.

 

When things sound different that shouldn't sound different, you don't just jump to the conclusion the A is better than B. Sounding different is only the first step. You need to investigate why they sound different. It could be an uncontrolled variable or a situation specific problem.

 

The part quoted above is a quote from Curious though.