Santana's Lotus: Complete Edition in DSD 11.2 MHz and Surround Sound SACD

KDinsmore · April 20, 2017

Hey Mikey............let us know how it sounds!

bmoura · April 20, 2017

3 hours ago, KDinsmore said:

Mine is in NY. Hoping for maybe on Saturday.

You'll enjoy it. Very well done !

MikeyFresh · April 20, 2017

4 hours ago, KDinsmore said:

Hey Mikey............let us know how it sounds!

Will do!

I won't have a chance to listen to the SACD layer until the weekend however, by then I hope you have your copy too!

KDinsmore · April 23, 2017

Got mine yesterday. CDJ really fast delivery! Looks fabulous like a larger version of the mini-lp (which sounds great and has higher DR than US version). Of course I'm too busy this weekend to listen. I'll have and audio buddy rip this to file for me. Should be great.

KDinsmore · April 30, 2017

Had an audio buddy rip this for me but playback is only DSD 64.

KDinsmore · April 30, 2017

I'm stupid for sure. I did not know that SACD tags at 64. This "uses" the 11.2. Since I always have these ripped I was ignorant to that fact. Still sounds great.

MikeyFresh · April 30, 2017

28 minutes ago, KDinsmore said:

I'm stupid for sure. I did not know that SACD tags at 64. This "uses" the 11.2. Since I always have these ripped I was ignorant to that fact. Still sounds great.

Not exactly.

SACD rips to DSD64 only, that is all you will get from an SACD rip, because that is what is physically on the disc, 2.8MHz sample rate (64x the sample rate of CD).

The 3 things regarding the new Lotus Complete Edition that are at an 11.2MHz sample rate (DSD256) are:

1) the digital transfer/capture of the original 16 channel multitrack analog tapes

2) the new 2-channel stereo mix/digital master created from the multitrack tapes

3) the Japan-only 11.2MHz download, currently an exclusive available only through e-Onkyo for 3 months

It remans to be seen whether or not that 11.2MHz download will ever be available in markets other than Japan, though e-Onkyo's exclusive on it will end in late July at which point Mora.jp will also offer it.

KDinsmore · April 30, 2017

Thanks Mikey.

bmoura · April 30, 2017

2 hours ago, MikeyFresh said:

Not exactly.

SACD rips to DSD64 only, that is all you will get from an SACD rip, because that is what is physically on the disc, 2.8MHz sample rate (64x the sample rate of CD).

The 3 things regarding the new Lotus Complete Edition that are at an 11.2MHz sample rate (DSD256) are:

1) the digital transfer/capture of the original 16 channel multitrack analog tapes

2) the new 2-channel stereo mix/digital master created from the multitrack tapes

3) the Japan-only 11.2MHz download, currently an exclusive available only through e-Onkyo for 3 months

It remans to be seen whether or not that 11.2MHz download will ever be available in markets other than Japan, though e-Onkyo's exclusive on it will end in late July at which point Mora.jp will also offer it.

Exactly. That explains why the music downloads sites that offer DSD - like NativeDSD, Blue Coast, DSD File/Opus 3, etc. - offer albums in DSD 5.6 MHz (DSD 128) and DSD 11.2 MHz (DSD 256) Stereo and in some cases DSD 5.6 MHz and DSD 11.2 MHz Multichannel as well as in DSD 2.8 MHz Stereo and Multichannel DSD. The higher DSD bit rates are only available in download form, not from an SACD disc copy/rip.

I see that Acoustic Sounds is now offering Lotus Complete Edition on Surround SACD as a pre-order. Adding them to the list of US options that includes Import CDs and Bull Moose for the SACD.

The real question is can they get the DSD 11.2 MHz Stereo Download in the future. Otherwise, the DSD 11.2 MHz Stereo download will remain a Japan only option.

KDinsmore · May 1, 2017

I was figuring all this out in minutes as I thought the whole deal through after my post.....I guess I'll have to use that free download code included in the SACD (kidding!!!).

MikeyFresh · May 1, 2017

3 hours ago, bmoura said:

Exactly. That explains why the music downloads sites that offer DSD - like NativeDSD, Blue Coast, DSD File/Opus 3, etc. - offer albums in DSD 5.6 MHz (DSD 128) and DSD 11.2 MHz (DSD 256) Stereo and in some cases DSD 5.6 MHz and DSD 11.2 MHz Multichannel as well as in DSD 2.8 MHz Stereo and Multichannel DSD. The higher DSD bit rates are only available in download form, not from an SACD disc copy/rip.

I see that Acoustic Sounds is now offering Lotus Complete Edition on Surround SACD as a pre-order. Adding them to the list of US options that includes Import CDs and Bull Moose for the SACD.

The real question is can they get the DSD 11.2 MHz Stereo Download in the future. Otherwise, the DSD 11.2 MHz Stereo download will remain a Japan only option.

It sure would make sense for Acoustic Sounds to offer the 11.2MHz download at some point given they have championed DSD downloads, and have a relationship with Sony including carrying Sony's high-end hardware line-up.

I can't see why Sony Music would keep that 11.2MHz download a Japan exclusive, it doesn't make a ton of business sense to do so, but it wouldn't be the first time a record label did something that made no sense.

Certain things are indeed limited to Japan-only distribution, cars, cameras, electronics, music releases, etc... and unlike physical product which is relatively easily exported, downloads restricted by license agreement might never see the light of day in N. America.

bmoura · May 1, 2017

19 minutes ago, MikeyFresh said:

It sure would make sense for Acoustic Sounds to offer the 11.2MHz download at some point given they have championed DSD downloads, and have a relationship with Sony including carrying Sony's high-end hardware line-up.

I can't see why Sony Music would keep that 11.2MHz download a Japan exclusive, it doesn't make a ton of business sense to do so, but it wouldn't be the first time a record label did something that made no sense.

Certain things are indeed limited to Japan-only distribution, cars, cameras, electronics, music releases, etc... and unlike physical product which is relatively easily exported, downloads restricted by license agreement might never see the light of day in N. America.

The problem for Acoustic Sounds is that their license is with Sony Music US, not Sony Music Japan. So unless Sony Music US issues Lotus Complete Edition as a DSD Download, it wouldn't be available to Acoustic Sounds under their licensing agreement.

So far, both the Surround SACD and the DSD Download editions of Lotus Complete Edition are Sony Japan only releases.

KDinsmore · May 1, 2017

I was able to link up to Mora and it appears the 11.2 download is still not available but they are working/waiting on a date.

bmoura · May 1, 2017

2 hours ago, KDinsmore said:

I was able to link up to Mora and it appears the 11.2 download is still not available but they are working/waiting on a date.

Mora should be able to get the DSD 11.2 MHz download in July when the eOnkyo Music Japan exclusive on it ends.

Last time I checked, Mora requires an address and credit card from Japan to complete purchases. So they won't be an option outside of the Japan market.

KDinsmore · May 1, 2017

I'd like to read someone's impressions of this. I'm surprised a review hasn't popped up on the web somewhere. Since I got my ripped file I've been listening to this quite a bit. It is excellent.

bmoura · May 1, 2017

18 minutes ago, KDinsmore said:

I'd like to read someone's impressions of this. I'm surprised a review hasn't popped up on the web somewhere. Since I got my ripped file I've been listening to this quite a bit. It is excellent.

There are some reviews of the Surround SACD edition of Lotus Complete Edition on the QuadraphonicQuad forum. They have a discussion thread and a Hi Rez Poll thread as well.

http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?23209-Santana-Lotus-Complete-Edition-in-SACD-Surround-Sound-and-DSD-256-Stereo-Download

http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?23343-Santana-LOTUS-SACD-JAPAN

KDinsmore · May 8, 2017

I finally heard from someone over the ocean who owns the big boy quad rate DSD download. Says its incredible. Here's hoping.

HDT is a no go on this and Acoustic Sounds is a maybe.

bmoura · May 8, 2017

27 minutes ago, KDinsmore said:

I finally heard from someone over the ocean who owns the big boy quad rate DSD download. Says its incredible. Here's hoping.

HDT is a no go on this and Acoustic Sounds is a maybe.

I've heard that both Acoustic Sounds and NativeDSD Music would love to make the Lotus: Complete Edition DSD 11.2 MHz and DSD 2.8 MHz downloads available.

Now it's up to Sony Music to decide if the downloads are licensed and made available outside the Japan market.

KDinsmore · May 9, 2017

Never saw NativeDSD before. Interesting how you can buy different formats from same issue.

bmoura · May 9, 2017

23 minutes ago, KDinsmore said:

Never saw NativeDSD before. Interesting how you can buy different formats from same issue.

Yes. They offer DSD albums in Stereo and Multichannel in DSD bit rates up to DSD 256.

Also worth noting, if you buy an album at a higher bit rate (like DSD 256 or DSD 128), the lower bit rates are made available to you at no added cost. Handy if your portable DSD player only goes to say DSD 128 while your home DAC handles DSD 256.

https://www.nativedsd.com/

https://www.nativedsd.com/homepage/double_dsd_music

https://www.nativedsd.com/homepage/quad_dsd_music

https://www.nativedsd.com/new_browse/#channel=multi